Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi Quentin et al,

 

 

I have read and carefully followed the steps for setting a new rule using a formula to change the fill colour of a row based on a certain word appearing in a particular column.

 

The procedure for editing rules is really straightforward and yet I cannot get it to take the fill colour. NVDA reports no colour even though the colour is flagged as selected. The no colour status is probably true, because the colour does not appear when the key word is present in the chosen cell.

 

My question is: Does NVDA definitely enable the selection of the fill colour when editing a new rule?

 

If so, how?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 


 

Cearbhall,

           I can set it, and NVDA is announcing the color when I select it from the grid that's presented.  I did not try the "More Colors" button.

           Be aware that the first button on the "Fill" tab is "No Color" and it's always there, and first, in case you want to clear any color that you may previously have used.  After you select the color you want, the "No Color" button is still there and prominently featured.  Once you land on the No Color Button, you must right arrow through the first set of colors, which start with white, and when you hear white again you're in the grid where you can down/up/left/right arrow your way around.  It may be easier to avoid all this altogether if you know the RGB value for the background color you wish to use.  If that's the case, go directly to the "More Colors" button and activate it, then if you're not already on the custom colors tab of the More Colors dialog, navigate to it.  The default color model is RGB and you can then get to the red, green, and blue edit boxes and enter the values for the background color you want, and hit OK.

But even if I used NVDA with the color selection toolbar/grid, as soon as I right arrowed off of the "No Color" button NVDA began announcing the colors and their respective RGB values, and allowing me to select the one I was currently on.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Quentin Christensen
 

NVDA shouldn't stop conditional formatting from working, and should be able to announce colours, both foreground text and background fill.

Have you checked that your conditional formatting formulas are working?  They can be fiddly to get right sometimes.

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:03 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin et al,

 

 

I have read and carefully followed the steps for setting a new rule using a formula to change the fill colour of a row based on a certain word appearing in a particular column.

 

The procedure for editing rules is really straightforward and yet I cannot get it to take the fill colour. NVDA reports no colour even though the colour is flagged as selected. The no colour status is probably true, because the colour does not appear when the key word is present in the chosen cell.

 

My question is: Does NVDA definitely enable the selection of the fill colour when editing a new rule?

 

If so, how?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

Cearbhall,

          In case it helps, take a look at this "quick and dirty" version of my billing sheet, where I put conditional formatting on cell B29, which turns gets a red background fill if cells B18 through B27 are all blank, and J29 gets a background of pale lavender if cells A18 through A27 are all blank.

           Download link:  https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1eM_VgwXupDuUKGu7lAFMsHj7x4tjW1ka

          That spreadsheet was edited using Excel 2016, though I have no idea on what version of Excel it was originally created, as it was not created by me.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Brian,

 

This is excellent! I followed your steps and it worked exactly as you describe. The trick is to arrow right until the white comes around second time, as you say. I then pressed up or down-arrow until the variant of my colour came up.

 

I did have the three RGB colour values from a previous setting that a sighted person had selected so I watched out and they came up under the up and down arrow process.

 

When I tab away from the first element that shows no colour, There are four other buttons:

Fill Effects...

More Colors...

Pattern Color Automatic

Pattern Solid Pattern control

 

And then, finally, OK

 

Have you any experience of using these other tabs? What did you have to do to be sure that you could accurately detect what was selected?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 12:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

Cearbhall,

           I can set it, and NVDA is announcing the color when I select it from the grid that's presented.  I did not try the "More Colors" button.

           Be aware that the first button on the "Fill" tab is "No Color" and it's always there, and first, in case you want to clear any color that you may previously have used.  After you select the color you want, the "No Color" button is still there and prominently featured.  Once you land on the No Color Button, you must right arrow through the first set of colours, which start with white, and when you hear white again you're in the grid where you can down/up/left/right arrow your way around.  It may be easier to avoid all this altogether if you know the RGB value for the background color you wish to use.  If that's the case, go directly to the "More Colors" button and activate it, then if you're not already on the custom colours tab of the More Colors dialog, navigate to it.  The default color model is RGB and you can then get to the red, green, and blue edit boxes and enter the values for the background color you want, and hit OK.

But even if I used NVDA with the color selection toolbar/grid, as soon as I right arrowed off of the "No Color" button NVDA began announcing the colours and their respective RGB values, and allowing me to select the one I was currently on.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Quentin,

 

Thats good to know, thanks.

The problem is that they are not working! How can I check them?

 

Just to be sure that we are speaking about the same things, I am referring to using formulas in the rules for conditional formatting under the Home menu in Excel.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 12:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

NVDA shouldn't stop conditional formatting from working, and should be able to announce colours, both foreground text and background fill.

 

Have you checked that your conditional formatting formulas are working?  They can be fiddly to get right sometimes.

 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:03 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin et al,

 

 

I have read and carefully followed the steps for setting a new rule using a formula to change the fill colour of a row based on a certain word appearing in a particular column.

 

The procedure for editing rules is really straightforward and yet I cannot get it to take the fill colour. NVDA reports no colour even though the colour is flagged as selected. The no colour status is probably true, because the colour does not appear when the key word is present in the chosen cell.

 

My question is: Does NVDA definitely enable the selection of the fill colour when editing a new rule?

 

If so, how?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

Cearbhall,

              My Excel experience itself is relatively limited, and last night was my first foray into conditional formatting.

              This is one of those times where there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to figuring out exactly what's going on with the screen reader itself, which is behaving as it should, but with a dialog setup that is quite atypical and where what you hear isn't always exactly indicative of what's going on.  The fact that "No Color" is a button with a value of its own, and the first one, can lead to the utterly incorrect conclusion if one lands on it again that you've somehow undone a color you set earlier, but you haven't unless you press it.  The screen reader also never lands on the large graphic at the bottom of that dialog that is showing the color sample in a broad swath that you selected above, which does make sense since you can't interact with it, it's meant as an obvious visual cue for the sighted, but even they can't interact with it, it's just there.

I do all these sorts of checks "as needed" because I've learned over time that non-intuitive dialogs can be confusing enough when you can see them, but when all you can do is hear them, and you aren't quite certain of how they are traversed, it makes it even worse.   I was actually surprised at the whole need to right arrow through the "short list" of colors at the top before landing in the grid where all the directional arrows work.  This is not something I'd expect anyone, including myself, would know unless they'd already had experience with it.  It's quite peculiar.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


 

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 07:12 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

When I tab away from the first element that shows no colour, There are four other buttons:

Fill Effects...

More Colors...

Pattern Color Automatic

Pattern Solid Pattern control

Cearbhall,

            I do have experience with the "More Colors" dialog, and for screen reader users the "Standard" tab in the dialog that pops up should be avoided like the plague.  Although I was able to navigate the color honeycomb (and that's what the setup for standard colors has looked like forever) you get absolutely nothing back from the screen reader about what color you're on.  As I noted last night, if you know the actual RGB values for the background color you want it's probably easiest and fastest to use the "More Colors" button and the "Custom" tab on the dialog that comes up, going to the R and G and B edit boxes and entering the respective values.

I have used Fill Effects before, but in Publisher, and it's the same here in Excel.  It allows you to make the background a one-color, two-color, or preset gradients.  In the case of Excel and for the cells on the spreadsheet I posted last night, I'm only getting the two color variant, the others being stippled out.  You pick the two colors (and, by default, the first will be white and the second whatever color you chose earlier) and the gradient transitions from one to the other.  There are a bunch of controls at the bottom specifying what orientation the gradient will take when filling the cell.  Unless one had really a really large cell the use of a color gradient would not be particularly useful.

I just looked at pattern color and pattern style.   This allows you to overlay pattern effects (style) on the background color you've chosen either allowing Excel to pick the pattern color (Automatic) or you can pick a specific color like you did for the background itself.  There are styles like x percent gray (which is a bit of a misnomer if you pick a custom color for the pattern color, but they have to pick a name) which places a series of what amount to micro polka dots on the background color you chose in the pattern color you chose, horizontal stripes, vertical stripes, cross hatching, etc.   By the way, if you are going through these and pick "solid" as the pattern, it does nothing, because you can't overlay a solid color on another solid color, so what you get is whatever you originally chose as your background color.  The pattern is only meaningful if you choose something other than solid which can be overlayed/combined with the base background color (which could be "no color" by the way) that is in effect.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Brian and Quentin,

 

After my last message I received a phone call from a person who was able to dial into my computer using TeamViewer. This allows his PC to become a clone of my terminal. We talked through the use of the Fill colour dialog and so he was able to hear and follow what prompts I was getting whilst he could see the visual information.

 

Your advice, Brian, on arrowing right in the first dialog where no colour is displayed was very effective. For all that he could see, he could not advise me how to move from that initial list into the grid of colours. When he grasped what I was doing, he was able to explain that the grid of colours is beside the list of basic theme colours that we have to traverse initially. It was then clear that the simple way to use this dialog is to follow what you described this morning, selecting the colour from the grid or from the primary themes and then clicking OK.

 

After making my selection of a colour in the initial dialog, he confirmed that it was now  

displayed in the Sample window which, as you say, we cannot get to. I can see it in screen review but, anyway, as a graphic the screen reader couldnt use it. He made a good point that I must raise with the NVDA team, that Microsoft might add an alt text container to the Sample, what do you think?

 

Anyway, that proved to me that I can take it for granted that once I have made a selection within the initial set of colours, that selection remains valid no matter what else I explore and remains available until I get to the OK button.

 

The above makes a flat colour that fills the whole cell. Sometimes, a client wants a two-tone fill and that needs the next step.

 

This calls on the other four tabs which are to do with stetting a pattern and changing the background into two colours. Once I enter these elements, I immediately upset my original selection  which they are designed to replace.

 

Using this dialog involves a lot of acting in good faith, unfortunately, but it can be done, I am relieved to find.

 

My next issue is with the conditional formatting rule which failed to make the change. I must see if my new-found knowledge helps me to get the rule working!

 

Thanks, both of you, for responding and encouraging my effort.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Set colour with conditional rule in Excel 2016

 

Cearbhall,

              My Excel experience itself is relatively limited, and last night was my first foray into conditional formatting.

              This is one of those times where there really is no substitute for sight when it comes to figuring out exactly what's going on with the screen reader itself, which is behaving as it should, but with a dialog setup that is quite atypical and where what you hear isn't always exactly indicative of what's going on.  The fact that "No Color" is a button with a value of its own, and the first one, can lead to the utterly incorrect conclusion if one lands on it again that you've somehow undone a color you set earlier, but you haven't unless you press it.  The screen reader also never lands on the large graphic at the bottom of that dialog that is showing the color sample in a broad swath that you selected above, which does make sense since you can't interact with it, it's meant as an obvious visual cue for the sighted, but even they can't interact with it, it's just there.

I do all these sorts of checks "as needed" because I've learned over time that non-intuitive dialogs can be confusing enough when you can see them, but when all you can do is hear them, and you aren't quite certain of how they are traversed, it makes it even worse.   I was actually surprised at the whole need to right arrow through the "short list" of colors at the top before landing in the grid where all the directional arrows work.  This is not something I'd expect anyone, including myself, would know unless they'd already had experience with it.  It's quite peculiar.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel