Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness


Kwork
 

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis


Dan Beaver
 

HI,


I hate to suggest this because I would hope that this kind of thing has been eliminated since I last did software development.


It sounds to me that what you are experiencing is like what used to happen when a program had a memory leak.  As time went by and more and more events happened memory would fill up and things would slow down.


I would expect that if this were the case many more of us would be seeing this behavior too but so far it doesn't sound like there are very many.


Is this possible?


Another thought is that have you checked to make sure the virtual storage setting is high enough on your system?  This used to happen if virtual storage was set too low.  Sorry, it has been too long since I last worked with virtual storage and I can't seem to find where this setting is on Windows 10.  Maybe someone else on here can suggest how to find it.


I hope this helps.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 2:02 PM, Kwork wrote:
Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis







Kwork
 

Both thoughts to consider. Thanks. I wouldn't know where to go looking for the virtual storage setting.

On 9/2/2018 11:17 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

HI,


I hate to suggest this because I would hope that this kind of thing has been eliminated since I last did software development.


It sounds to me that what you are experiencing is like what used to happen when a program had a memory leak.  As time went by and more and more events happened memory would fill up and things would slow down.


I would expect that if this were the case many more of us would be seeing this behavior too but so far it doesn't sound like there are very many.


Is this possible?


Another thought is that have you checked to make sure the virtual storage setting is high enough on your system?  This used to happen if virtual storage was set too low.  Sorry, it has been too long since I last worked with virtual storage and I can't seem to find where this setting is on Windows 10.  Maybe someone else on here can suggest how to find it.


I hope this helps.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 2:02 PM, Kwork wrote:
Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis







Gene
 

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 
 
Try this:
I'm giving desktop layout commands:
Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis




Gene
 

This may be referring to the amount of virtual memory.  Absolutely not the cause of the problem.  If you had so little RAM in the computer that you couldn't even down arrow through a files and folders list, you couldn't run any programs except so slowly you wouldn't use the machine.
 
Gene----- Original Message -----

----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Both thoughts to consider. Thanks. I wouldn't know where to go looking for the virtual storage setting.

On 9/2/2018 11:17 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

HI,


I hate to suggest this because I would hope that this kind of thing has been eliminated since I last did software development.


It sounds to me that what you are experiencing is like what used to happen when a program had a memory leak.  As time went by and more and more events happened memory would fill up and things would slow down.


I would expect that if this were the case many more of us would be seeing this behavior too but so far it doesn't sound like there are very many.


Is this possible?


Another thought is that have you checked to make sure the virtual storage setting is high enough on your system?  This used to happen if virtual storage was set too low.  Sorry, it has been too long since I last worked with virtual storage and I can't seem to find where this setting is on Windows 10.  Maybe someone else on here can suggest how to find it.


I hope this helps.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 2:02 PM, Kwork wrote:
Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis







Annette Moore
 

what I do, when NVDA doesn't read the list of folders or files in File Explorer, if I don't just become impatient and restart NVDA altogether, which does solve the probem temporarily, is to down arrow through the files because some of them I know from going through them before what they are, and just entering on the one I think is the one I want. If it isn't, I just hit backspace and keep going. I've found ways to deal with this File Explorer sluggishness, but it can be a pain. And I really hate to say this because I love NVDA, but it doesn't do this in System Access. System Access has its own quirks in Windows 10, though, one of which drives me even more batty than the sluggish File Explorer list not being read  quickly by NVDA, and sometimes not even at all, does, and that is what I call the dead insert key. I can live with a sluggish file explorer; I cannot live without my insert key. Another thing that helps is simply to close file explorer altogether and reopen it. I'm trying to figure out a pattern for why it does this, but I can't seem to. It *really* does it with Dropbox, though; in fact, when I copy and paste a file or folder from Dropbox into somewhere else on my computer, I just automatically restart NVDA. I don't even mess with it. So yeah, I've figured out ways to deal with it and I can live with it, but glorious will be the day when it no longer happens. I'll celebrate! Honestly! LOL!

Annette


On 9/2/2018 2:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 
 
Try this:
I'm giving desktop layout commands:
Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis





Richard Bartholomew
 

Hi,

 

Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem. 

 

Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

 

The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I have very, very few add-ons installed!

 

Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.

 

Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along with the latest stable version of NVDA.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 September 2018 20:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 

 

Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kwork

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis



Rob Hudson
 

Richard Bartholomew <rlbart53@gmail.com> wrote:
Secondly, though,I dont find this slowness either with NVDA I dont use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a long time that the problem arises. However, Ive just spent 15 minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down at all one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

One cause of the slowness has been linked to having the preview pain turned on while running file explorer. Press alt+v and look through the view ribbon to determine the pane's state.


Gene
 

I doubt it.  It may vary from machine to machine for unknown reasons.  I think that if it were an add on, in the past discussions I've seen, that would have very likely been discovered as the problem was discussed and people tried various possible solutions.  I remember no such correllation.  There's no harm in running NVDA with all add-ons disabled to find out but I'm very doubtful.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Hi,

 

Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem. 

 

Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

 

The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I have very, very few add-ons installed!

 

Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.

 

Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along with the latest stable version of NVDA.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 September 2018 20:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 

 

Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kwork

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis



Tyler Spivey
 

The fault lies with both Microsoft and NVDA.
As far as I understand it, here's the issue. With UIA, you can tell it
which events you want to be notified about, and for which windows.
NVDA decided that it was going to listen to certain events from every
window on the system, and not just the one that had the focus. That
doesn't sound too bad, until...
If another application on the system isn't responding fast enough, UIA
stops notifying NVDA of events if NVDA is listening to certain
properties of that window (I think it was name and value change).

I'll lay out a simple, real-world example:
1. I start uploading a file in WinSCP.
2. I switch away from WinSCP into File Explorer. I guess WinSCP doesn't
respond fast enough to UIA, so UIA decides not to send NVDA events for
anything anymore. From then on, until that upload finishes or I close
WinSCP, my File Explorer won't read properly, nor will alt+tab or
anything else that depends on UIA.
This particular example isn't as bad as I thought, but my UIA does stop
responding for a few seconds at a time, and it's definitely noticeable.

I've heard that the next version of Windows 10 tries to fix this.
However, if NVDA simply listened to events from the currently running
application, I think this would be a much less severe problem.
This might break reading of background progress bars, but that's a small
price to pay for a working system.
Also, JAWS and Narrator don't have this problem, only NVDA.
For more info, see issue 8535 and its linked issues:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8535

On 9/2/2018 12:57 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
Hi,

 

Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem. 

 

Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t
use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a
long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes
going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down
at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was
as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

 

The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an
add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I have
very, very few add-ons installed!

 

Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.

 

Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along with
the latest stable version of NVDA.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 02 September 2018 20:25
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my
memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system
used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I
don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen
discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't
use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my
general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who
know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem
or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 

 

Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down
arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which
it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert
numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the
list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you
want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad
insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the
item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she
double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first
selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the
same sequence a mouse user follows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis



Kwork
 

Actually, that works, and does make looking through snappier for sure. If a large folder, I'll press the letter where I need to go that'll be close to the file name, then use what you described to get there.

One slight correction to your instructions, and it's slight: numpad enter once both selects the folder/file  entry and opens it. I also thought it would take two to go through the selection and activation process. It scared me when a file started playing immediately. LOL!

Travis

On 9/2/2018 12:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 
 
Try this:
I'm giving desktop layout commands:
Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis




Kwork
 

Hahaha, I hear you. I also rely much on the insert key, so it's death would not make me happy.

Gene's workaround actually helped me quite a bit.

Travis

On 9/2/2018 12:49 PM, Annette Moore wrote:

what I do, when NVDA doesn't read the list of folders or files in File Explorer, if I don't just become impatient and restart NVDA altogether, which does solve the probem temporarily, is to down arrow through the files because some of them I know from going through them before what they are, and just entering on the one I think is the one I want. If it isn't, I just hit backspace and keep going. I've found ways to deal with this File Explorer sluggishness, but it can be a pain. And I really hate to say this because I love NVDA, but it doesn't do this in System Access. System Access has its own quirks in Windows 10, though, one of which drives me even more batty than the sluggish File Explorer list not being read  quickly by NVDA, and sometimes not even at all, does, and that is what I call the dead insert key. I can live with a sluggish file explorer; I cannot live without my insert key. Another thing that helps is simply to close file explorer altogether and reopen it. I'm trying to figure out a pattern for why it does this, but I can't seem to. It *really* does it with Dropbox, though; in fact, when I copy and paste a file or folder from Dropbox into somewhere else on my computer, I just automatically restart NVDA. I don't even mess with it. So yeah, I've figured out ways to deal with it and I can live with it, but glorious will be the day when it no longer happens. I'll celebrate! Honestly! LOL!

Annette


On 9/2/2018 2:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 
 
Try this:
I'm giving desktop layout commands:
Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis





Kwork
 

Hmm, maybe it's time to remember and take my own advice that I gave Jackie the other day that helped resolve her Firefox selection problem. I didn't think of add-ons

Whether it works, what Gene advised is working better than how I was doing things. It, just, gets, old, when, each, file, and, folder, name, has, an, extra, pause, inserted, before, each.

Travis

On 9/2/2018 12:57 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

Hi,

 

Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem. 

 

Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

 

The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I have very, very few add-ons installed!

 

Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.

 

Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along with the latest stable version of NVDA.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 September 2018 20:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 

 

Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kwork

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis



Kwork
 

Ok, done. We'll see over time how that goes. Thanks.

On 9/2/2018 12:58 PM, Rob Hudson wrote:
Richard Bartholomew <rlbart53@gmail.com> wrote:
Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a long time that the problem arises. However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!
One cause of the slowness has been linked to having the preview pain turned on while running file explorer. Press alt+v and look through the view ribbon to determine the pane's state.


.


Kwork
 

Your doubt is confirmed. I wasn't sure that it would work, but I tried to be sure.

On 9/2/2018 1:18 PM, Gene wrote:
I doubt it.  It may vary from machine to machine for unknown reasons.  I think that if it were an add on, in the past discussions I've seen, that would have very likely been discovered as the problem was discussed and people tried various possible solutions.  I remember no such correllation.  There's no harm in running NVDA with all add-ons disabled to find out but I'm very doubtful.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Hi,

 

Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem. 

 

Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

 

The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I have very, very few add-ons installed!

 

Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.

 

Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along with the latest stable version of NVDA.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 02 September 2018 20:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 

 

Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kwork

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

 

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis



Kwork
 

Thank you Tyler. That's an answer that makes sense to me.


"This might break reading of background progress bars, but that's a small
price to pay for a working system."


I'd be ok with that, a small price as you say.


People with System Access seem to be fine as well.

Travis

On 9/2/2018 1:19 PM, Tyler Spivey wrote:
The fault lies with both Microsoft and NVDA.
As far as I understand it, here's the issue. With UIA, you can tell it
which events you want to be notified about, and for which windows.
NVDA decided that it was going to listen to certain events from every
window on the system, and not just the one that had the focus. That
doesn't sound too bad, until...
If another application on the system isn't responding fast enough, UIA
stops notifying NVDA of events if NVDA is listening to certain
properties of that window (I think it was name and value change).

I'll lay out a simple, real-world example:
1. I start uploading a file in WinSCP.
2. I switch away from WinSCP into File Explorer. I guess WinSCP doesn't
respond fast enough to UIA, so UIA decides not to send NVDA events for
anything anymore. From then on, until that upload finishes or I close
WinSCP, my File Explorer won't read properly, nor will alt+tab or
anything else that depends on UIA.
This particular example isn't as bad as I thought, but my UIA does stop
responding for a few seconds at a time, and it's definitely noticeable.

I've heard that the next version of Windows 10 tries to fix this.
However, if NVDA simply listened to events from the currently running
application, I think this would be a much less severe problem.
This might break reading of background progress bars, but that's a small
price to pay for a working system.
Also, JAWS and Narrator don't have this problem, only NVDA.
For more info, see issue 8535 and its linked issues:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8535

On 9/2/2018 12:57 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
Hi,


Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem.


Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t
use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for a
long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15 minutes
going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no slow down
at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000 subfolders and it was
as quick as one which only had one or two in it!


The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an
add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I have
very, very few add-ons installed!


Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.


Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along with
the latest stable version of NVDA.


Cheers

Richard Bartholomew



*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 02 September 2018 20:25
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness


Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my
memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system
used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I
don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen
discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't
use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my
general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who
know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem
or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it.


Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down
arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which
it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert
numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the
list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you
want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad
insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the
item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she
double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first
selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the
same sequence a mouse user follows.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness


Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis




Jackie
 

Yeah--I was gonna suggest that. :).

On 9/2/18, Kwork <istherelife@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmm, maybe it's time to remember and take my own advice that I gave
Jackie the other day that helped resolve her Firefox selection problem.
I didn't think of add-ons

Whether it works, what Gene advised is working better than how I was
doing things. It, just, gets, old, when, each, file, and, folder, name,
has, an, extra, pause, inserted, before, each.

Travis

On 9/2/2018 12:57 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

Hi,

Firstly, no, JAWS doesn’t suffer from the same problem.

Secondly, though,I don’t find this slowness either with NVDA – I don’t
use NVDA constantly so maybe it is only after it has been running for
a long time that the problem arises.  However, I’ve just spent 15
minutes going through my various drives and folders with absolutely no
slow down at all – one of the folders had in excess of 1,000
subfolders and it was as quick as one which only had one or two in it!

The only other thing I can think of is that, possibly, it may be an
add-on which is causing this?  The reason I put this out is that I
have very, very few add-ons installed!

Good luck with identifying where the problem is and on fixing it.

Oh yes, and I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 64-bit along
with the latest stable version of NVDA.

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 02 September 2018 20:25
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my
memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system
used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I
don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen
discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I
don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest
of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.
Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a
Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA
developers to solve it.

Try this:

I'm giving desktop layout commands:

Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down
arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object,
which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad
insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through
the list. To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When
you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command
numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select
the item, once to open it. You are doing what a mouse user does when
he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are
first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which
is the same sequence a mouse user follows.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis




--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Dan Beaver
 

Virtual Memory is not RAM, it is storage space allotted on the hard drive which is used for swapping programs in and out of RAM.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 3:37 PM, Gene wrote:
This may be referring to the amount of virtual memory.  Absolutely not the cause of the problem.  If you had so little RAM in the computer that you couldn't even down arrow through a files and folders list, you couldn't run any programs except so slowly you wouldn't use the machine.
 
Gene----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Both thoughts to consider. Thanks. I wouldn't know where to go looking for the virtual storage setting.

On 9/2/2018 11:17 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

HI,


I hate to suggest this because I would hope that this kind of thing has been eliminated since I last did software development.


It sounds to me that what you are experiencing is like what used to happen when a program had a memory leak.  As time went by and more and more events happened memory would fill up and things would slow down.


I would expect that if this were the case many more of us would be seeing this behavior too but so far it doesn't sound like there are very many.


Is this possible?


Another thought is that have you checked to make sure the virtual storage setting is high enough on your system?  This used to happen if virtual storage was set too low.  Sorry, it has been too long since I last worked with virtual storage and I can't seem to find where this setting is on Windows 10.  Maybe someone else on here can suggest how to find it.


I hope this helps.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 2:02 PM, Kwork wrote:
Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis








Gene
 

I don't use Windows 10.  Nothing is selected when I move by object and I have to use two issuances, as I said.  I can use the command once on a web page on a link or control on the page but in a list like this, where something must be selected, I have to use two commands.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Actually, that works, and does make looking through snappier for sure. If a large folder, I'll press the letter where I need to go that'll be close to the file name, then use what you described to get there.

One slight correction to your instructions, and it's slight: numpad enter once both selects the folder/file  entry and opens it. I also thought it would take two to go through the selection and activation process. It scared me when a file started playing immediately. LOL!

Travis

On 9/2/2018 12:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Others who use Windows 10 will telll you more and we will see if my memory is correct.  As I recall, this is the result of UIA, a system used much more in Windows 10 to communicate with screen-readers.  I don't think you can do anything about it, as I recall what I've seen discussed here, though I may have found a partial work around.  I don't use Windows 10 so you can see.  I'll explain it after the rest of my general comments.  I wonder if JAWS has the same problem.  Others who know more technically may comment on whether this is a Microsoft problem or if it will take both Microsoft and NVDA developers to solve it. 
 
Try this:
I'm giving desktop layout commands:
Move into the folder where you want to find a file.  Instead of down arrowing, move through each item as though it were its own object, which it is.  The command to move by object down the screen is numpad insert numpad 6.  Keep holding insert and pressing six to move through the list.  To move back, the command is numpad insert numpad 4.  When you want to open something, it will not be selected.  use the command numpad insert numpad enter.  Execute the command twice, once to select the item, once to open it.  You are doing what a mouse user does when he/she double clicks an item.  You aren't using a mouse but you are first selecting, then taking an action, in this case opening it, which is the same sequence a mouse user follows.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I
ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the
other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now
uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through
files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second
delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the
backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or
am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and
folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned
off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and
stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make
things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things
get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it
would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in
Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis




Gene
 

I didn't say ram is virtual memory.  I said that if you have so little ram, which is real memory though I didn't specify that, I assumed people knew, that virtual memory must be used when arrowing through a list of files and folders, the machine would be so slow that you wouldn't use it. In other words, it is so unlikely that anyone would be using a machine with that little ram, that such a cause can be dismissed as completely not the case. If it were, if virtual memory were used for almost everything, the machine would be so slow that no one would use it, as I said.  
 
Also, virtual memory is only used when there isn't enough ram.  If there isn't enough ram, programs not in use are kept in virtual memory then swapped into ram when they are used.  And if there isn't enough memory to run a program you are running, whatever can't fit into ram will be placed into virtual memory, thus significantly slowing the performance of the program. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Virtual Memory is not RAM, it is storage space allotted on the hard drive which is used for swapping programs in and out of RAM.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 3:37 PM, Gene wrote:
This may be referring to the amount of virtual memory.  Absolutely not the cause of the problem.  If you had so little RAM in the computer that you couldn't even down arrow through a files and folders list, you couldn't run any programs except so slowly you wouldn't use the machine.
 
Gene----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2018 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 1803 and file explorer sluggishness

Both thoughts to consider. Thanks. I wouldn't know where to go looking for the virtual storage setting.

On 9/2/2018 11:17 AM, Dan Beaver wrote:

HI,


I hate to suggest this because I would hope that this kind of thing has been eliminated since I last did software development.


It sounds to me that what you are experiencing is like what used to happen when a program had a memory leak.  As time went by and more and more events happened memory would fill up and things would slow down.


I would expect that if this were the case many more of us would be seeing this behavior too but so far it doesn't sound like there are very many.


Is this possible?


Another thought is that have you checked to make sure the virtual storage setting is high enough on your system?  This used to happen if virtual storage was set too low.  Sorry, it has been too long since I last worked with virtual storage and I can't seem to find where this setting is on Windows 10.  Maybe someone else on here can suggest how to find it.


I hope this helps.


Dan Beaver


On 9/2/2018 2:02 PM, Kwork wrote:
Since asking this on the Windows 10 list, it was also suggested that I ask more NVDA users here, so am copying below the message I sent to the other list with an additional NVDA question.


First of all, I'm still getting used to the idea that File Explore now uses ribbons rather than the menus on my former Windows 7 installation.

What's bothering me more is the sluggishness when moving around through files and folders. There seems to be between a quarter and a half second delay after each press of the arrow and enter keys. Same with the backspace.

First question: is there a way to toggle between folders and ribbons, or am I stuck? I'm guessing the answer to be stuck.

Next, is there a way to speed up movement through navigating files and folders? As far as I can tell, I have all visuals and animations turned off. The sluggishness remains, and increases over time. Starting and stopping the "Windows Explorer" process in Task Manager seems to make things less slow, but still not normal for a few minutes, then things get more and more sluggish again.

In addition, is there anything in NVDA that I can check to see if it would help in the new sluggishness? I just miss the snappiness I had in Windows 7.


If anyone knows what I can do, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Travis