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NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.


 

hello, i am from russia and i using espeak. in changelog i noticed that the synthesizer was updated. unfortunately because of the update, some words and prepositions were pronounced very strange. I can not explain it to people who do not know Russian, but it sounds unpleasant.
is it possible to not update the synthesizer in the release, or to find the source of the problem?
Sincerely, Alexander.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I saw this mentioned on the Espeak list. I'd imagine other languages might be the same as well. I did not fully understand the problem as you say because I do not speak the language.


I think you need to raise a ticket on nvdas gather site for this as I doubt anyone will see it here.
In the meantime, speech player in Espeak is still downloadable as an add on and is an older version of Espeak but I cannot comment on how it affects Russian obviously, but the same variants are there.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Александр Епанешников" <@erikpro>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.


hello, i am from russia and i using espeak. in changelog i noticed that the synthesizer was updated. unfortunately because of the update, some words and prepositions were pronounced very strange. I can not explain it to people who do not know Russian, but it sounds unpleasant.
is it possible to not update the synthesizer in the release, or to find the source of the problem?
Sincerely, Alexander.


Quentin Christensen
 

I did see it here.  I passed it on to Mick, as this is exactly the kind of thing we are looking for.  I haven't had a chance to speak with him yet about how to proceed.  Every eSpeak release lately seems to be a two-edged sword - fixing some bugs and introducing others!

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I saw this mentioned on the Espeak list. I'd imagine other languages might be the same  as well. I did not fully understand the problem as you say because I do not speak the language.


I think you need to raise a ticket on nvdas gather site for this as I doubt anyone will see it here.
In the meantime,  speech player in Espeak is still downloadable as an add on and is an older version of Espeak but I cannot comment on how it affects Russian obviously, but the same variants are there.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Александр Епанешников" <aarnaarn2@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.


hello, i am from russia and i using espeak. in changelog i noticed that the synthesizer was updated. unfortunately because of the update, some words and prepositions were pronounced very strange. I can not explain it to people who do not know Russian, but it sounds unpleasant.
is it possible to not update the synthesizer in the release, or to find the source of the problem?
Sincerely, Alexander.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I saw the Russian problem or something like it on their mailing list a few days back. You are right, they fix one thing and break another. Reading between the lines I gather that they are trying to work with code that to be kind was brought into being in an organic fashion and things break due to the ramifications of a change not being obvious to the new team.
They seem to be trying to make things more ordered and certain things always fixed in the same way, not patched up as it seems it has been before.
However I still use the speech player in Espeak add on but with the old voice files. It stops a lot of the weird UK English problems.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.


I did see it here. I passed it on to Mick, as this is exactly the kind of
thing we are looking for. I haven't had a chance to speak with him yet
about how to proceed. Every eSpeak release lately seems to be a two-edged
sword - fixing some bugs and introducing others!

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I saw this mentioned on the Espeak list. I'd imagine other languages might
be the same as well. I did not fully understand the problem as you say
because I do not speak the language.


I think you need to raise a ticket on nvdas gather site for this as I
doubt anyone will see it here.
In the meantime, speech player in Espeak is still downloadable as an add
on and is an older version of Espeak but I cannot comment on how it affects
Russian obviously, but the same variants are there.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Александр Епанешников" <
@erikpro>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.


hello, i am from russia and i using espeak. in changelog i noticed that
the synthesizer was updated. unfortunately because of the update, some
words and prepositions were pronounced very strange. I can not explain it
to people who do not know Russian, but it sounds unpleasant.
is it possible to not update the synthesizer in the release, or to find
the source of the problem?
Sincerely, Alexander.








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Quentin Christensen
 

Yep, I wasn't judging them - I haven't seen their code, all I see the end results for users :)

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:52 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Yes I saw the Russian problem or something like it on their mailing list a few days back. You are right, they fix one thing and break another. Reading between the lines I gather that they are trying to work with code that to be kind was brought into being in an organic fashion and things break due to the ramifications of a change not being obvious to the new team.
They seem to be trying to make things more ordered and certain things always fixed in the same way, not patched up as it seems it has been before.
However I still use the speech player in Espeak add on but with the old voice files. It stops a lot of the weird UK English problems.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.



I did see it here.  I passed it on to Mick, as this is exactly the kind of
thing we are looking for.  I haven't had a chance to speak with him yet
about how to proceed.  Every eSpeak release lately seems to be a two-edged
sword - fixing some bugs and introducing others!

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I saw this mentioned on the Espeak list. I'd imagine other languages might
be the same  as well. I did not fully understand the problem as you say
because I do not speak the language.


I think you need to raise a ticket on nvdas gather site for this as I
doubt anyone will see it here.
In the meantime,  speech player in Espeak is still downloadable as an add
on and is an older version of Espeak but I cannot comment on how it affects
Russian obviously, but the same variants are there.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Александр Епанешников" <
aarnaarn2@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3rc1 espeak problem with Russian language.


hello, i am from russia and i using espeak. in changelog i noticed that
the synthesizer was updated. unfortunately because of the update, some
words and prepositions were pronounced very strange. I can not explain it
to people who do not know Russian, but it sounds unpleasant.
is it possible to not update the synthesizer in the release, or to find
the source of the problem?
Sincerely, Alexander.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

hello Quentin, thanks for help. pleas inform on updates.
Sincerely, Alexander


 

hello, unfortunately this ishue is not fixed in the new release. I wanted to ask what I can doto fix it?


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Alexander,

Although I'm not a Russian speaker myself, can you give me a couple of examples of words or phrases that demonstrate the problem that I can take back please?

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 8:06 PM Александр Епанешников <aarnaarn2@...> wrote:
hello, unfortunately this ishue is not fixed in the new release. I wanted to ask what I can doto fix it?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

it is difficult. there is a big problem with prepositions espeak put to much emphasis on them.

for example (в с на).

some words are also misread. example (интернет.)


Quentin Christensen
 

Ok thank you, that's something I can follow up on .


On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 12:41 AM Александр Епанешников <aarnaarn2@...> wrote:
it is difficult. there is a big problem with prepositions espeak put to
much emphasis on them.

for example (в с на).

some words are also misread. example (интернет.)






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Reece H. Dunn
 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 03:41 PM, Александр Епанешников wrote:
it is difficult. there is a big problem with prepositions espeak put to
much emphasis on them.

for example (в с на).
This is https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/issues/544. There have been disagreements over various attempts to improve the Russian language (e.g. https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/issues/474).

some words are also misread. example (интернет.)
Mispronunciations are likely. It would be helpful if there was someone willing and capable of maintaining the Russian language who speaks it.

Kind regards,
Reece


Quentin Christensen
 

There is an email group for eSpeak NG, just as there is for NVDA.  That would be the best place to get help from the direct Russian speaking maintainers of the eSpeak Russian voices: https://groups.io/g/espeak-ng

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:59 PM Reece H. Dunn <msclrhd@...> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 03:41 PM, Александр Епанешников wrote:
it is difficult. there is a big problem with prepositions espeak put to
much emphasis on them.

for example (в с на).
This is https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/issues/544. There have been disagreements over various attempts to improve the Russian language (e.g. https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng/issues/474).

some words are also misread. example (интернет.)
Mispronunciations are likely. It would be helpful if there was someone willing and capable of maintaining the Russian language who speaks it.

Kind regards,
Reece



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Alexander,

We have created a test build of NVDA using the latest build of eSpeak, which should address the Russian pronunciation problems.  Please try it and let me know whether it works or not.  The build starts similar to any other NVDA download - once you run it, you can either install it, or continue running (as a portable version) - either should be fine to test this.


Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:25 AM Александр Епанешников <aarnaarn2@...> wrote:
hello, i am from russia and i using espeak. in changelog i noticed that the synthesizer was updated. unfortunately because of the update, some words and prepositions were pronounced very strange. I can not explain it to people who do not know Russian, but it sounds unpleasant.
is it possible to not update the synthesizer in the release, or to find the source of the problem?
Sincerely, Alexander.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess