Topics

Tooltips


Vlad Dragomir
 

Good afternoon,

Friends, this might seem odd to some and obvious to others, so I feel I should apologise in advance for what follows.

I've just learnt about the existance of tooltips. If I understand well, they are messages displayed when someone points the mouse at certain elements on a web page, without clicking on them. If possible, I would be curious to know the folowing:
1. How can we know if, and where these tooltips are present? Does NVDA anounces them? If so, what does it say?I don't remember hearing such information so far, and I've been using it for quite a while.
2. How can we read those tooltips, given that we rarely use the mouse? At least I never do that, even though I know about mouse simulation; I never have the reflex to actually use that function. I am getting old I suppose.

I thank in advance all those who will enlighten me on this topic.

Warm regards from France,

Vlad.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well, I hear tooltips sometimes. Certainly NVDA can beset to read them in the settings. Since you cannot prove a negative its hard to say without sighted help but on some things when highlighted by tabbing to them I hear a description as is supposed to be in the tooltip, on others I do not. Same with Jaws. Similar issues with windows 7 balloons etc too.


For a definitive answer though you will need somebody who works with the nvda code. I have my suspicions that some objects use a different method to generate the tips.

Its a bit like the extra details some folders in explore seem to reveal making it found like a file name is read twice, the second time with other data appended.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad Dragomir" <vladdragomir1983@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] Tooltips


Good afternoon,

Friends, this might seem odd to some and obvious to others, so I feel I should apologise in advance for what follows.

I've just learnt about the existance of tooltips. If I understand well, they are messages displayed when someone points the mouse at certain elements on a web page, without clicking on them. If possible, I would be curious to know the folowing:
1. How can we know if, and where these tooltips are present? Does NVDA anounces them? If so, what does it say?I don't remember hearing such information so far, and I've been using it for quite a while.
2. How can we read those tooltips, given that we rarely use the mouse? At least I never do that, even though I know about mouse simulation; I never have the reflex to actually use that function. I am getting old I suppose.

I thank in advance all those who will enlighten me on this topic.

Warm regards from France,

Vlad.


Vlad Dragomir
 

Thank you Brian for the response. I found the "report tooltips" ceckbox as well. But from what I read online, we need a mouse pointer in order to display the tooltip. That's why I was somehow puzzled and curious to know more. Moreover,if I have no way to know that an element has an available tooltip, I won't even try to read it, since I don't know it's there. Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to try and clarify things for me.

Have a great weekend!

Vlad.


Gene
 

There are times in Windows where, if you select something, a tool tip will be shown and as I recall, NVDA is set to read tooltips by default.  Try moving through the items on the desktop and see if tool tips are read.  It is highlighting or selecting the item that causes the tooltip to be shown.  When you move to an item in a list using the arrow keys, it is selected.  If it wasn't, nothing would happen when you pressed enter.  In general, though not absolutely always, you can't take an action on anything unless it is selected. 
 
If you move a mouse to an item, that may cause a tooltip to be shown as well. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tooltips

Well, I hear tooltips sometimes. Certainly  NVDA can beset to read them in
the settings. Since you cannot prove a negative its hard to say without
sighted help but on some things when highlighted by tabbing to them I hear a
description as is supposed to be in the tooltip, on others I do not. Same
with Jaws. Similar issues with windows 7 balloons etc too.


For a definitive answer though you will need somebody who  works with the
nvda code. I have my suspicions that some  objects use   a different method
to generate the tips.

Its a bit like the extra details some folders in explore seem to reveal
making it found like a file name is read twice, the second time with other
data appended.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad Dragomir" <vladdragomir1983@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] Tooltips


> Good afternoon,
>
> Friends, this might seem odd to some and obvious to others, so I feel I
> should apologise in advance for what follows.
>
> I've just learnt about the existance of tooltips. If I understand well,
> they are messages displayed when someone points the mouse at certain
> elements on a web page, without clicking on them. If possible, I would be
> curious to know the folowing:
> 1. How can we know if, and where these tooltips are present? Does NVDA
> anounces them? If so, what does it say?I don't remember hearing such
> information so far, and I've been using it for quite a while.
> 2. How can we read those tooltips, given that we rarely use the mouse? At
> least I never do that, even though I know about mouse simulation; I never
> have the reflex to actually use that function. I am getting old I suppose.
>
> I thank in advance all those who will enlighten me on this topic.
>
> Warm regards from France,
>
> Vlad.
>
>
>




Gene
 

What you read online applies to and is written by sighted users in most cases.  In terms of such information, don't assume the sighted writer is aware of other aspects of use.  It isn't the mouse.  It is whether something is selected and there are many ways of selecting and most sighted users are unaware of them.  and those who are aware, usually write for a sighted audience and don't go into other ways such as selecting from the keyboard.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tooltips

Thank you Brian for the response. I found the "report tooltips" ceckbox
as well. But from what I read online, we need a mouse pointer in order
to display the tooltip. That's why I was somehow puzzled and curious to
know more. Moreover,if I have no way to know that an element has an
available tooltip, I won't even try to read it, since I don't know it's
there. Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to try and clarify
things for me.

Have a great weekend!

Vlad.



Vlad Dragomir
 

Definitely, it works quite consistently on the desktop and when files/folders are selected. My main concern was specifically related to web pages. Sorry for not emphasising it, I realise now I should have done so.

Vlad.


Vlad Dragomir
 

Thank you, that's indeed a very sensible analysis. It was a mistake to believe that a sighted writer would take into account alternative ways to use a computer. Too idealistic for sure!

Vlad.


Gene
 

I'm not sure if web pages display tooltips, as being discussed.  there are some controls on some web pages that will do something such as open a menu or display information somewhere on a page if a mouse is hovered over the control.  Most of the time, these don't matter enough to worry about.  At times, they do and you may need a function like the JAWS mouse over function to work with that function of such controls. 
 
But you may find that, by moving the mouse in NVDA over certain controls on certain web sites, you may hear something read as the screen changes.  But NVDA doesn't identify such controls and it is not at all convenient to work with such controls if they display anything important.  You don't know where the screen changed and you don't know if you've heard everything read.  If you use the mouse over feature in JAWS, it tells you where the page changed, such as line 11.  there is a jump to line feature in JAWS.  Then you can jump back to where you were originally after you look at the area consisting of line 11 and anything below it that may have changed.  This feature works with links.  I don't know if any other controls function in this way.  But in my experience, mouse over links seldom do anything important and the feature, though it is useful at times, is only useful a very small amount of the time.  in other words, I generally don't worry about whether a page has such links or other controls.  Though whether NVDA should have such a feature may be a good topic for discussion because even though rare, such a feature may allow you to do things on a page you can't otherwise.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tooltips

Definitely, it works quite consistently on the desktop and when
files/folders are selected. My main concern was specifically related to
web pages. Sorry for not emphasising it, I realise now I should have
done so.

Vlad.



Vlad Dragomir
 

This made things a lot clearer, thank you for explaining!

Vlad.