Date
1 - 14 of 14
Hi
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Michael Munn
Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA.
How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up and I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about the nvda Screen reader. Please help if you all can. Best Regards Michael Munn
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Antony Stone
Please explain what you mean by "virtualize a window".
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That phrase doesn't mean anything to me (and therefore, maybe not to others here either). Antony.
On Friday 12 October 2018 at 17:48:43, Michael Munn wrote:
Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. --
BASIC is to computer languages what Roman numerals are to arithmetic. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
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David Griffith
The phrase Virtualised window is often used to describe the process where text is collected from a Screen GUII and presented in a virtual window buffer which a screenreader can use.
In relation to the original question NVDA in the first case will most often read a window / dialogue box with the same keypress as Jaws – that is NVDA plus B. Unfortunately NVDA does not have all the same cursor abilities as Jaws but if NVDA plus B does not deliver the required results then some options are still available. First of all you can try object navigation. Basically you can experiment with pressing numbers of the keypad if you have desktop layout to see if you get any useful results. You can refer to the User Guide for more detailed and explicit instructions. Finally you can use the inbuilt Windows 10 OCR facility with NVDA simply by pressing NVDA plus R. This is often as good as if not better than Jaws Virtual Convenient OCR in relation to reading window contents. If using earlier versions of windows you will need to download an Virtual OCR addon but I must admit when I used to use this it did not deliver many useful results in my experience. David Griffith. My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
From: Antony Stone
Sent: 12 October 2018 17:19 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Hi
Please explain what you mean by "virtualize a window".
That phrase doesn't mean anything to me (and therefore, maybe not to others here either).
Antony.
On Friday 12 October 2018 at 17:48:43, Michael Munn wrote:
> Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. > How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because > yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up > and I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. > I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about > the nvda Screen reader. Please help if you all can. > Best Regards Michael Munn
-- BASIC is to computer languages what Roman numerals are to arithmetic.
Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
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Rui Fontes
Hi!
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David, in some cases, the NVDA object navigation is better then Jaws 18 cursor... With the new cursor of Jaws 2018 and 2019 I don't know... And there are an addon to virtualize the window.., see in: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/virtualRevision.en.html Rui Fontes Às 17:35 de 12/10/2018, David Griffith escreveu:
The phrase Virtualised window is often used to describe the process where text is collected from a Screen GUII and presented in a virtual window buffer which a screenreader can use.
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Gene
You can't virtualize a window using NVDA. You
need to use screen review keys. do you know them? If you want to
copy screen material to the clipboard where there is no cursor, such as in an
error dialog, you need to use screen review keys and an NVDA command to copy the
material to the clipboard.
I won't answer further in this message because I
want to be sure what you need to know. From your message, it sounds as
though you need to know screen review commands and how to copy text to the
clipboard as I discussed. There are explanations in the manual of all
this. I can look up sections where it is.
but others may provide the information and/or
explanations of their own so I'll see how things develop.
Gene
----- Original Message ----- > Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. > How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because > yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up > and I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. > I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about > the nvda Screen reader. Please help if you all can. > Best Regards Michael Munn -- BASIC is to computer languages what Roman numerals are to arithmetic. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
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Gene
In JAWS, you can place a
window in the Virtual PC cursor buffer as though it were a web page. Or,
if NVDA had this feature, it
would be in the browse mode buffer. This allows the user to move
around in a window such as an error dialog as though there were a cursor when
there isn't. You can copy to the clipboard just as you can on a web
page. But NVDA, as you know, but for those who don't, can do the same
things in different ways.
Gene
----- Original Message
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That phrase doesn't mean anything to me (and therefore, maybe not to others here either). Antony. On Friday 12 October 2018 at 17:48:43, Michael Munn wrote: > Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. > How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because > yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up > and I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. > I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about > the nvda Screen reader. Please help if you all can. > Best Regards Michael Munn -- BASIC is to computer languages what Roman numerals are to arithmetic. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
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Chris Mullins
Hi
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Download and install the Virtual review addon then you can use NVDA+Control+w to virtualise a window then browse it using arrow keys. Cheers Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Munn Sent: 12 October 2018 16:49 To: nvda@groups.io Subject: [nvda] Hi Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up and I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about the nvda Screen reader. Please help if you all can. Best Regards Michael Munn
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Gene
However, does using this add--on discourage
learning how to use screen-review commands in NVDA? and does this lack of
learning mean that, when it is advisable to use the activate command available
on the numpad or to use the route and click virtual mouse commands NVDA
provides, the user won't know how to do these things? This may be an
add-on that duplicates functions already available in NVDA where the user would
be much better off learning the NVDA way to do things if the user if at all
demanding and who wishshes to go beyond rather elementary learning. Also,
some NVDA review commands are essential for working with Windows 10 apps.
It sounds like a bad idea to have such an add-on that discourages learning of
the screen-reader itself.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Download and install the Virtual review addon then you can use NVDA+Control+w to virtualise a window then browse it using arrow keys. Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Munn Sent: 12 October 2018 16:49 To: nvda@groups.io Subject: [nvda] Hi Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up and I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about the nvda Screen reader. Please help if you all can. Best Regards Michael Munn
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Rui Fontes
Hi!
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I was the mentor of this addon initially developed by Rui Batista and currently maintained by Joseph Lee... I do not agree that it will force the users to do not learn NVDA review tools, but it will be usefull untill they learn... And it is also usefull to users coming from Jaws... Rui Às 19:19 de 12/10/2018, Gene escreveu:
However, does using this add--on discourage learning how to use screen-review commands in NVDA? and does this lack of learning mean that, when it is advisable to use the activate command available on the numpad or to use the route and click virtual mouse commands NVDA provides, the user won't know how to do these things? This may be an add-on that duplicates functions already available in NVDA where the user would be much better off learning the NVDA way to do things if the user if at all demanding and who wishshes to go beyond rather elementary learning. Also, some NVDA review commands are essential for working with Windows 10 apps. It sounds like a bad idea to have such an add-on that discourages learning of the screen-reader itself.
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Gene
It will be interesting to see what others
say. I don't think that it is a good idea to provide add-ons that provide
a way to do something that lowers the chance that the most versatile and useful
way will be learned. That was also the problem with the Window-eyes JAWS
imitation interface. It may have gotten some JAWS users to use
Window-eyes, but the imitation JAWS interface had less functionality than the
real Window-eyes interface.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
I was the mentor of this addon initially developed by Rui Batista and currently maintained by Joseph Lee... I do not agree that it will force the users to do not learn NVDA review tools, but it will be usefull untill they learn... And it is also usefull to users coming from Jaws... Rui Às 19:19 de 12/10/2018, Gene escreveu: > However, does using this add--on discourage learning how to use > screen-review commands in NVDA? and does this lack of learning mean > that, when it is advisable to use the activate command available on the > numpad or to use the route and click virtual mouse commands NVDA > provides, the user won't know how to do these things? This may be an > add-on that duplicates functions already available in NVDA where the > user would be much better off learning the NVDA way to do things if the > user if at all demanding and who wishshes to go beyond rather elementary > learning. Also, some NVDA review commands are essential for working > with Windows 10 apps. It sounds like a bad idea to have such an add-on > that discourages learning of the screen-reader itself. > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@...> > *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2018 1:12 PM > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Hi > > Hi > Download and install the Virtual review addon then you can use > NVDA+Control+w to virtualise a window then browse it using arrow keys. > > Cheers > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael > Munn > Sent: 12 October 2018 16:49 > To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io> > Subject: [nvda] Hi > > Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. > How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because > yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up and > I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. > I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about the > nvda Screen reader. > Please help if you all can. > Best Regards Michael Munn > > > > >
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Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
I have noticed that some alerts in windows and other software are using some odd way of displaying a message. Even if it opens in the background, alt tabbing to it will not actually read it. sometimes, but not always, you can switch to screen virtual nav and read it a bit at a time, but not always.
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I noticed in Jaws this happens far less and it seems able to read these. Obviously the text can be seen by nvda, its just the automatic reading when appropriate which is missing. Its quite hard to do an nvda/F1 on some of these without losing the focus and getting meaningless log entries though. I'm just guessing this is what is being discussed. Nodal windows or some such or errors say in a C program or an exception somewhere in a program are the main ones. The other problem I often see is that nvda cannot reboot while an error that crashed its error is on screen. sometimes Narrator will read those but not always. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Hi Please explain what you mean by "virtualize a window".
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Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
The questions are then, does having the add on stop the old commands from working
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Does the new virtualised window offer any of the operations like clicking of the inbuilt system If it does do this, then is it maybe better? Is there anything that it can do that the navigation modes cannot. I seem to recall that its still not as good as the Jaws version. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Hi Hi!
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Gene
Virtualizing a Window in JAWS doesn't allow you to
click something. It does allow you to copy material from the virtualized
window so you can paste it somewhere. This is useful when you want to
paste content from an error message into an e-mail describing the error to
someone, as an example of one use.
Does the add-on allow copying to
the clipboard of selected material? Whether it does or not, NVDA has its
own way of doing this.
Gene
----- Original Message
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Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Hi working Does the new virtualised window offer any of the operations like clicking of the inbuilt system If it does do this, then is it maybe better? Is there anything that it can do that the navigation modes cannot. I seem to recall that its still not as good as the Jaws version. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rui Fontes" <rui.fontes@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Hi > Hi! > > I was the mentor of this addon initially developed by Rui Batista and > currently maintained by Joseph Lee... > > I do not agree that it will force the users to do not learn NVDA review > tools, but it will be usefull untill they learn... > And it is also usefull to users coming from Jaws... > > Rui > > > > Às 19:19 de 12/10/2018, Gene escreveu: >> However, does using this add--on discourage learning how to use >> screen-review commands in NVDA? and does this lack of learning mean that, >> when it is advisable to use the activate command available on the numpad >> or to use the route and click virtual mouse commands NVDA provides, the >> user won't know how to do these things? This may be an add-on that >> duplicates functions already available in NVDA where the user would be >> much better off learning the NVDA way to do things if the user if at all >> demanding and who wishshes to go beyond rather elementary learning. Also, >> some NVDA review commands are essential for working with Windows 10 apps. >> It sounds like a bad idea to have such an add-on that discourages >> learning of the screen-reader itself. >> Gene >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@...> >> *Sent:* Friday, October 12, 2018 1:12 PM >> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Hi >> >> Hi >> Download and install the Virtual review addon then you can use >> NVDA+Control+w to virtualise a window then browse it using arrow keys. >> >> Cheers >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael >> Munn >> Sent: 12 October 2018 16:49 >> To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io> >> Subject: [nvda] Hi >> >> Hi all, This is Michael. i have a question about a feature in NVDA. >> How can one virtualize a window using NVDA? I'm asking that because >> yesterday I was doing something with NVDa and some error message pop up >> and >> I couldn't read it because I don't know how to virtualize the message. >> I would be able to read it if I use Jaws. I'm not saying bad thing about >> the >> nvda Screen reader. >> Please help if you all can. >> Best Regards Michael Munn >> >> >> >> >> > > >
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Rui Fontes
Yes, it allows that...
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Rui Fontes Às 11:21 de 13/10/2018, Gene escreveu:
Virtualizing a Window in JAWS doesn't allow you to click something. It does allow you to copy material from the virtualized window so you can paste it somewhere. This is useful when you want to paste content from an error message into an e-mail describing the error to someone, as an example of one use.
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