first read all - then react - nvda list has become a chatter group


Davy Cuppens
 

Hi folks
 
I’ve been thinking a long time to post it or not but after the useless discussion over the usage of ribbons and the heavy mail traffic over and over again ...
 
Please people, this group is to ask questions and if you have one, feel free to start a topic. But ... before you do so, don’t be lazy and have you checked google before, have you checked the nvda or windows manuals or learning stuff before? OK still no answer for you, ask questions. By doing that there will be less list traffic.
Second, we all get tons of mails and are not always behind our desktops or laptops. If you want to help people and react, please read your mails until the latest updates and then react on it once or twice.
I don’t want to blame or name people here, but we all know who ... there are chaps here that react and react and react on every single mail.
I notice that the purpose of this group helping people has gone by.
We are all telling eachother in endless threads how it was how it would and how it should be. Please, please, stay with facts only.
If we go on like this, many intelligent people will leave this fine group so that knowledge will be gone more and more.
Regards
Davy


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Although I sympathise, there are times when certain people lay down a law which is not in fact true, and each person will have their own take on it, IE there is no right way to decide on whether to install a ribbon remover or learn them. One of the functions here is to explain choices and signpost people to other resources
Second. If we all had email that flowed to use in a linear time line it would be wonderful, but sadly that is not the case. IE for example I may read a thread here, and see a few replies and add mine, only say several hours later to find old emails have come in from prior to mine and made me seem to be repeating things. OK so you hold off, but then you forget to look back.

I'm not saying you are in any way wrong, merely suggesting that what may look to some as a chat list, is in fact not being treated that way in the posters mind at a given time. It is thus very hard to stop it without getting draconian on moderation and risking throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I've seen it on lists I have left due to that my rule is the only rule enforcement lots of times.

What I suggest is to do what I do. I use a particular email for lists. I use pop 3 clients and sort the mails automatically into folders as they come in.
I also have a junk folder for certain subject lines and in some instances certain posters messages. You do not have to read all the responses if you set up the viewing order correctly.

Text, thankfully takes up little room.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Davy Cuppens" <davycuppens@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2018 10:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] first read all - then react - nvda list has become a chatter group


Hi folks

I’ve been thinking a long time to post it or not but after the useless discussion over the usage of ribbons and the heavy mail traffic over and over again ...

Please people, this group is to ask questions and if you have one, feel free to start a topic. But ... before you do so, don’t be lazy and have you checked google before, have you checked the nvda or windows manuals or learning stuff before? OK still no answer for you, ask questions. By doing that there will be less list traffic.
Second, we all get tons of mails and are not always behind our desktops or laptops. If you want to help people and react, please read your mails until the latest updates and then react on it once or twice.
I don’t want to blame or name people here, but we all know who ... there are chaps here that react and react and react on every single mail.
I notice that the purpose of this group helping people has gone by.
We are all telling eachother in endless threads how it was how it would and how it should be. Please, please, stay with facts only.
If we go on like this, many intelligent people will leave this fine group so that knowledge will be gone more and more.
Regards
Davy


 

 People who feel annoyed being bombarded by emails from this group can always set there preferences two no email. 


Christian Schoepplein
 

Hej,

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 04:26:26 -0700, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
People who feel annoyed being bombarded by emails from this group
can always set there preferences two no email.
Ofcourse this is a way to deal with the problem, but its the wrong way IMHO. In this list there are so many off topic messages about things that are not related to NVDA and this has to be minimized to get back to the real topic of this list.

Cheers,

Schoepp


 

In that case perhaps a moderator could put up a sticky topic reminding people not to go off-topic?

On 3 Nov 2018, at 12:39, Christian Schoepplein <chris@schoeppi.net> wrote:

Hej,

On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 04:26:26 -0700, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
People who feel annoyed being bombarded by emails from this group
can always set there preferences two no email.
Ofcourse this is a way to deal with the problem, but its the wrong way IMHO. In this list there are so many off topic messages about things that are not related to NVDA and this has to be minimized to get back to the real topic of this list.

Cheers,

Schoepp



Michael Munn
 

I kind of agree about the sticky note method.
Some time a person forgot what's the list is for and they post stuff on the list that's off topic.
Thanks for the email.
Best Regards 
Michael Munn 


 

Not that I don't agree with the central thrust of a great many of your points, Davy, but it is also incumbent on those using Groups.io to also learn and understand the features available from Groups.io to actually control the e-mail stream they receive, up to and including using the Mute this Topic feature.

There are periods of time on any list where volumes of messages go up, sometimes way up, and the topics are not of interest.  You, as an individual user, have immense power and control over what you do and do not receive from any group on Groups.io.  You, for any you, have the ability to very carefully vet the topics you want to continue receiving from Groups.io and can do so with ease.

In addition to a number of the great ideas you suggest, everyone should read, understand, and employ the features they need to control their e-mail stream contained in, Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io

 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)

 

 


Ron Canazzi
 

Also, if you wish to avoid a thread of dozens or even hundreds of messages, you can filter messages into separate folders for each group and you can group messages by conversation and mass delete the entire threads at once.  I am subscribed to 17 moderated mailing list and receive thousands of messages a day.  I only take 1 or 2 hours over a few sessions daily to go through them.  I do this by eliminating dozens of e-mails at one time that I am not interested in. This filtering and group message by conversation is different for each mail program but it is usually an easy enough thing to do and undo.



On 11/3/2018 7:26 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
 People who feel annoyed being bombarded by emails from this group can always set there preferences two no email. 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Sarah k Alawami
 

I do the same thing, or I will just read with out reading, that is, open all the message then close them and skim, or mark everything as read allowing me to go through over a thousand messages that come in through out the week day. Weekends are quieter. There is also the delete key. If I'm not interested I remove the conversation or mute it with mail mate on mac os or mute it on groups.io. I've already done tis to several threads that don't interest me, except in lists I mod I have to read everything there.

Take care

On 3 Nov 2018, at 4:22, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Although I sympathise, there are times when certain people lay down a law which is not in fact true, and each person will have their own take on it, IE there is no right way to decide on whether to install a ribbon remover or learn them. One of the functions here is to explain choices and signpost people to other resources Second. If we all had email that flowed to use in a linear time line it would be wonderful, but sadly that is not the case. IE for example I may read a thread here, and see a few replies and add mine, only say several hours later to find old emails have come in from prior to mine and made me seem to be repeating things. OK so you hold off, but then you forget to look back.

I'm not saying you are in any way wrong, merely suggesting that what may look to some as a chat list, is in fact not being treated that way in the posters mind at a given time. It is thus very hard to stop it without getting draconian on moderation and risking throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I've seen it on lists I have left due to that my rule is the only rule enforcement lots of times.

What I suggest is to do what I do. I use a particular email for lists. I use pop 3 clients and sort the mails automatically into folders as they come in. I also have a junk folder for certain subject lines and in some instances certain posters messages. You do not have to read all the responses if you set up the viewing order correctly.

Text, thankfully takes up little room.

Brian

bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davy Cuppens" davycuppens@... To: nvda@groups.io Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2018 10:51 AM Subject: [nvda] first read all - then react - nvda list has become a chatter group

Hi folks

I’ve been thinking a long time to post it or not but after the useless discussion over the usage of ribbons and the heavy mail traffic over and over again ...

Please people, this group is to ask questions and if you have one, feel free to start a topic. But ... before you do so, don’t be lazy and have you checked google before, have you checked the nvda or windows manuals or learning stuff before? OK still no answer for you, ask questions. By doing that there will be less list traffic. Second, we all get tons of mails and are not always behind our desktops or laptops. If you want to help people and react, please read your mails until the latest updates and then react on it once or twice. I don’t want to blame or name people here, but we all know who ... there are chaps here that react and react and react on every single mail. I notice that the purpose of this group helping people has gone by. We are all telling eachother in endless threads how it was how it would and how it should be. Please, please, stay with facts only. If we go on like this, many intelligent people will leave this fine group so that knowledge will be gone more and more. Regards Davy


Sarah k Alawami
 

That doesn't. work. Asa mod for about 15 to 17 yers I can say that people ignore it, people like myself, and yes I have broken my own rules every once in a while..

Take care and happy Saturday.

On 3 Nov 2018, at 5:53, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

In that case perhaps a moderator could put up a sticky topic reminding people not to go off-topic? > On 3 Nov 2018, at 12:39, Christian Schoepplein chris@... > wrote: > > Hej, > >> On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 04:26:26 -0700, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote: >> People who feel annoyed being bombarded by emails from this group >> can always set there preferences two no email. > > Ofcourse this is a way to deal with the problem, but its the wrong > way IMHO. In this list there are so many off topic messages about > things that are not related to NVDA and this has to be minimized to > get back to the real topic of this list. > > Cheers, > > Schoepp > > >


Gene
 

These are my thoughts as moderator.  The owner is the ultimate authority and he may wish to comment.
 
The list has been run in this way, regarding traffic, long before I became moderator.  That doesn't mean it has to be but it may be the best of various imperfect possibilities. 
 
If you moderate too tightly, you may harm a sense of community that, one hopes, develops on good lists.  And at times, it has been my observation, that even if a thread drifts, useful information may be sent and you never know when that might happen as a result of the drift so I tend not to regulate it much.  If something is really offtopic, I may do so but I find that in such cases, the thread often stops by itself very quickly.
 
Also, even when a moderator makes suggestions such as to change subject lines if a thread drifts too far, these generally aren't followed in my experience with this and other lists. 
 
As a practical matter, I'll discuss ways of managing mail so people may deal with what they don't want to read much more efficiently than they may be doing. 
 
Reading the first message or two in a thread to see if you are interested is one way.  Of course, you can do this on a day when the list is particularly busy or on days when there are long threads you may or may not be interested in.  You can read mail by conversation, which involves setting your e-mail program to show all messages with a certain subject line in a group.  You can skip all in a group and you don't have to down arrow through them all to do so.  The conversations are organized in a tree view so you can open one conversation, read what you want, then close it and delete the entire conversation at one time. 
 
I haven't done the following so I don't know what happens if you follow the link but each message has a mute thread link in the footers at the bottom of the message.  You can follow this link and the thread will either be muted, you won't receive any more messages in it, or you will be taken to a page where you do something to mute it.  As I said, I don't know which. 
 
These suggestions, or some of them, may help those who want to manage messages.
 
Gene, Moderator

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2018 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] first read all - then react - nvda list has become a chatter group

In that case perhaps a moderator could put up a sticky topic reminding people not to go off-topic?
> On 3 Nov 2018, at 12:39, Christian Schoepplein <chris@...> wrote:
>
> Hej,
>
>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 04:26:26 -0700, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:
>> People who feel annoyed being bombarded by emails from this group
>> can always set there preferences two no email.
>
> Ofcourse this is a way to deal with the problem, but its the wrong way IMHO. In this list there are so many off topic messages about things that are not related to NVDA and this has to be minimized to get back to the real topic of this list.
>
> Cheers,
>
>  Schoepp
>
>
>



Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

This is why I subscribe to this list in daily summary mode. I only get one email message from the group per day, and I can more easily skip the topics that don't interest me. It's pretty easy to change your preferences in groups.io. If you need to know how, let me know privately. With the high volume of traffic, I think this subscription mode makes it less stressful.
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...