[EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander


Joshua Crary <JCrary@...>
 

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.






Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Cristóbal
 

It's literally in the body of every email.

Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joshua Crary
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends
perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as
incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're
dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have
to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least
those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will
probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some
experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the
physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic
world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and
tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like
this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without
autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.






Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
the content is safe.


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

nvda+unsubscribe@groups.io.

On 11/19/2018 11:54 AM, Joshua Crary wrote:
Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.










.





Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


Joshua Crary <JCrary@...>
 

I hardly pay attention to these emails, so I did not know it was in the body towards the bottom of the chain.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

It's literally in the body of every email.

Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joshua Crary
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
little bit cheaper.


Hi,

This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.


Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.


But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.



On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
To be honest, we spell how we speak.

I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
speak it.

Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
speaks it because it sounds fine enough.



On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
"captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
h, a.

On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded. I may start
spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
clear writing and accuracy. Rereading before sending is important
in all those respects.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
message. Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
controling decision.
While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
you are overreacting. For one thing, I see this error with native
English speakers. I don't recall seeing it with non native
speakers. Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
list, I let it pass. a little variety is enjoyable and may
stimulate thought and awareness. No one was flamed. No one was
disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@gmail.com>
**
*Gene*
*----- Original Message -----*
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Hello Travis:

I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
and unwarranted. It is also off topic.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Travis Siegel
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
taking your time to see what's going on around you. You wander
around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
curious about something. Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
off into galaxies unknown.
And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
things.













.






Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.


 

Why not mute the occasional topic if it's not of interest? That link is at the end of every message, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Gene
 

Send a blank message to
However, if you want to leave because of this thread, I'm planning to ask that it stop at the end of today.  It's an interesting thread but since it is so offtopic, it probably shouldn't continue beyond today.  Also, if you look at the bottom of messages, you will see a mute this topic link.  I haven't followed it but if you do, the purpose is to stop receiving messages in any thread you don't want.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
> TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
> person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
> using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
> little bit cheaper.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.
>
>
> Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
> so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
> display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
> spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.
>
>
> But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
> the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
> stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.
>
>
>
> On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
>> To be honest, we spell how we speak.
>>
>> I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
>> speak it.
>>
>> Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
>> speaks it because it sounds fine enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
>>> The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
>>> annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
>>> everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
>>> websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
>>> "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
>>> by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
>>> h, a.
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
>>>> I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
>>>> them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
>>>> what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
>>>> describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start
>>>> spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
>>>> not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
>>>> clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important
>>>> in all those respects.
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
>>>> message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
>>>> controling decision.
>>>> While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
>>>> you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native
>>>> English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native
>>>> speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
>>>> list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may
>>>> stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was
>>>> disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
>>>> passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@...>
>>>> **
>>>> *Gene*
>>>> *----- Original Message -----*
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>>
>>>> Hello Travis:
>>>>
>>>> I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
>>>> aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
>>>> many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
>>>> when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
>>>> than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
>>>> mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
>>>> and unwarranted. It is also off topic.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
>>>> Travis Siegel
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>>
>>>> Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
>>>> to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
>>>> Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
>>>> don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
>>>> taking your time to see what's going on around you.  You wander
>>>> around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
>>>> On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
>>>> curious about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
>>>> universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
>>>> may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
>>>> off into galaxies unknown.
>>>> And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
>>>> too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> .
>







Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



Gene
 

Almost all lists have such links in the footers, npot just Groups.io messages.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

I hardly pay attention to these emails, so I did not know it was in the body towards the bottom of the chain.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

It's literally in the body of every email.

Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joshua Crary
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Where do you go to remove yourself from this emailing list?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [EXTERNAL] - Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

The simple fact is that Beyond the immediate world of family and friends perhaps, not making the effort to spell and punctuate correctly comes off as incredibly sloppy/lazy and good luck trying to be taken seriously. If you're dyslexic, well . . . that's maybe a different ballgame but one doesn't have to be a grammar Nazi to at least try.


Cristóbal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 11:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander

Its not just the blind, that goes for everyone world wide mostly at least those of us in the west.

My parients come from indonesia and things happen at a slower pace.

Even here, I try to be reasonably quick, but then I haven't and will probably not ever work in any real business except for myself.

I havn't touched a report or coppy of office since my university days.

And while I have jarte, I hardly read a document unless its for some experiment or test.

Most things are in pdf or text or just online.

And while I don't mind the electronic side of things if I can get into the physical guts of something then I usually do that.

Sadly these days its money, money, money, and fast, fast, fast.

We use automated tools a lot.

Thats fine but we lose something when we overuse those tools.

Sadly those of newer generations than myself are born into the automatic world and have no experience with anything else.

I have known a time before the net and facebook.

My parents have known a time before computers, water and power, radio and tv.

So many things we take for granted.

Any war is far away for most of the new people, me included.

For my parients and others before me, they have known 2 of those.

The next generation will not even have the discussion about anything like this though.

We only care because we know what it was like to have to spell without autocorrect.

Soon enough it won't matter how badly we spell.

Thats sad but true.



On 11/20/2018 8:05 AM, Tyler Wood wrote:
> TLDR: We're all in such a panic to get things done that no blind
> person is going to take the two seconds to see a spelling of an item
> using a screen reader. I'm glad braille displays are getting just a
> little bit cheaper.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> This is why it is always best to keep braille around, uncontracted.
>
>
> Who actually uses a screen reader to see how things are spelled? It is
> so much easier to glance (sorry, with our fingers) down at a braille
> display, see that their (as belonging) is T H E I R. Rather than
> spelling it T H E R E because that's how it sounds.
>
>
> But, then there is the other argument that grade 2 braille teaches us
> the opposite, so who knows. I know my spelling deteriorated when I
> stopped reading braille books and switched to audio.
>
>
>
> On 2018-11-19 12:45 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
>> To be honest, we spell how we speak.
>>
>> I don't say the t in capture or capcha, I know it exists but I don't
>> speak it.
>>
>> Usually if one does not know how a word is spelt he will go how he
>> speaks it because it sounds fine enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2018 7:30 AM, Kwork wrote:
>>> The only spelling anomaly common among blind people that really
>>> annoys me to no end is misspelling captcha as capture. Bad enough in
>>> everyday use, but worse when we're filling out support tickets on
>>> websites and professional emails, and asking companies to make their
>>> "captures" accessible. Um, no. The form that includes an unsolvable
>>> by screenreader image verification is called captcha. c, a, p, t, c,
>>> h, a.
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2018 9:54 AM, Gene wrote:
>>>> I usually don't spell-check messages. I read them before I send
>>>> them to check for words that sound misspelled but also to make sure
>>>> what I wrote is clear, accurate, such as commands given during
>>>> describing a procedure, and not clumsily worded.  I may start
>>>> spellchecking them as well but my main concern on e-mail lists is
>>>> not to have spelling errors that are more than minor and to have
>>>> clear writing and accuracy.  Rereading before sending is important
>>>> in all those respects.
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 10:16 AM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing as a moderator to explain my thinking about the
>>>> message.  Of course, if the owner disagrees, that will be the
>>>> controling decision.
>>>> While it is generally not done and not considered proper, I think
>>>> you are overreacting.  For one thing, I see this error with native
>>>> English speakers.  I don't recall seeing it with non native
>>>> speakers.  Since this sort of discussion never takes place on the
>>>> list, I let it pass.  a little variety is enjoyable and may
>>>> stimulate thought and awareness.  No one was flamed.  No one was
>>>> disparaged. These days, being offended by everything is a cultural
>>>> passtime and fixsture. I don't see anything offensive in the message.
>>>> Gene
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Rick <mailto:softwarethatworks@...>
>>>> **
>>>> *Gene*
>>>> *----- Original Message -----*
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 5:21 AM
>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>>
>>>> Hello Travis:
>>>>
>>>> I find your email to be quite insensitive. As you are probably
>>>> aware, this list is comprised of people from all over the globe,
>>>> many of whom are not native English speakers. I am always impressed
>>>> when people are capable of speaking an additional language other
>>>> than their native tongue and criticizing them for grammatical
>>>> mistakes on a list not focused on grammatical correctness is petty
>>>> and unwarranted. It is also off topic.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
>>>> Travis Siegel
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 12:40 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> Subject: [nvda] wonder vs. wander
>>>>
>>>> Not trying to make anybody mad here, but it really is disconcerting
>>>> to see so many people here using wander and wonder interchangeably.
>>>> Wander (with an"A" ) is what you do when you're out and about, and
>>>> don't have any particular place to be, and you just feel like
>>>> taking your time to see what's going on around you.  You wander
>>>> around, looking at things, and simply taking things easy.
>>>> On the other hand, wonder (with an "O" ) is what you do when you're
>>>> curious about something.  Yeah, it's ok to wonder about life, the
>>>> universe and everything, but if you wander about such things, you
>>>> may never find your way back to your back yard, having being swept
>>>> off into galaxies unknown.
>>>> And, of course, it's perfectly acceptable to wonder about wandering
>>>> too, especially if you're wondering why so many people wander into
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> .
>







Caution: This email originated from outside of Roxbury Community College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.










 

I would also note that because someone is using an email classifier that changes the subject line that there are now two parallel topics.  If muting you'll have to do so from each.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back