writing in forums on the web


Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing with NVDA?


--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com


Brian's Mail list account
 

Well since they seem to be all not created by the same software its all pretty much suck it and see, which is why I don't like forums, its like different web mail brands, all different.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rayette Rucker" <rayette.rucker23@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 7:55 PM
Subject: [nvda] writing in forums on the web


So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing with NVDA?


--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com



Antony Stone
 

Not all web forums work the same way (either for blind, or sighted people).

Give us an example of what you're trying to work with, and we might be able to
help you find out whether it works or not, but I'm sorry, there is no single
answer which works for all sites.


Antony.

On Monday 10 October 2016 at 20:55:29, Rayette Rucker wrote:

So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing
with NVDA?
--
Users don't know what they want until they see what they get.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

Trying to write in a forum on this site.


http://www.fortrefuge.com/

On 10/10/2016 4:00 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Not all web forums work the same way (either for blind, or sighted people).

Give us an example of what you're trying to work with, and we might be able to
help you find out whether it works or not, but I'm sorry, there is no single
answer which works for all sites.


Antony.

On Monday 10 October 2016 at 20:55:29, Rayette Rucker wrote:

So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing
with NVDA?


Gene
 

First, what are you talking about when you refer to the web applications thing?  Are you talking about the item for getting an audio challenge so you can fill out the captcha to prove you are a human? 
 
If so, did you try the get an audio challenge option? 
Gene

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] writing in forums on the web

Trying to write in a forum on this site.


http://www.fortrefuge.com/


On 10/10/2016 4:00 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
> Not all web forums work the same way (either for blind, or sighted people).
>
> Give us an example of what you're trying to work with, and we might be able to
> help you find out whether it works or not, but I'm sorry, there is no single
> answer which works for all sites.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Monday 10 October 2016 at 20:55:29, Rayette Rucker wrote:
>
>> So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing
>> with NVDA?

--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com




Kevin Huber
 

Hi Rayet:

Are you talking about participating in forums or are you talking about
filling out forms?
Kevin Huber

On 10/10/16, Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...> wrote:
So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing
with NVDA?


--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com





Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

Participating in forums. I mean writing posts in forums.

On 10/12/2016 10:23 AM, Kevin Huber wrote:
Hi Rayet:

Are you talking about participating in forums or are you talking about
filling out forms?
Kevin Huber


On 10/10/16, Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...> wrote:
So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing
with NVDA?


--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com





Kevin Huber
 

Hi Rayet:

Thanks for the clarification.
Kevin Huber

On 10/12/16, Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...> wrote:
Participating in forums. I mean writing posts in forums.


On 10/12/2016 10:23 AM, Kevin Huber wrote:
Hi Rayet:

Are you talking about participating in forums or are you talking about
filling out forms?
Kevin Huber


On 10/10/16, Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...> wrote:
So, how do I fill out forums on the web with the web applications thing
with NVDA?


--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com




--
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com





 

Based on Rayette's offering a link I think it's safe to say that participating in a web forum is what's being asked about.

Having visited the website there are actually two forums hosted there, a public one and a private one due to the sensitive nature of the potential conversations themselves.

The public forum allows you to post as an unregistered guest.  Once you activate the "Post New Topic" button you are presented with a web form (where you could log in if you have an account) but that by default shows you as user "Unregistered," offers a ReCaptcha (the audio version of which is a number sequence that's very easy to understand and spoken very slowly) to prove you're actually human, and the following fields and controls for your post:

  • Title
  • the actual message composition box, which NVDA announces as "Rich Text Editor" because that's what's used for composition.  You can simply type if you do not wish to employ any of the formatting buttons.
  • a dropdown box that allows you to give a specific trigger warning to potential readers about the nature of the content of your message
  • a submit new thread button
  • a preview post button

I would have to presume that the private forum setup would be largely the same but that since login is required no ReCaptcha would be used.  The preceding only covers posting, not reading, which is its own kettle of fish.

As Antony already noted, it's impossible to give truly generic instructions with regard to web forums, though there are several major formats that do get used repeatedly on different forums websites.  If you intend to get heavily involved on a specific web forum it really is helpful to have a sighted assistant during the first couple of tries just so they can walk you through the controls that they see (some of which you may or may not need).  Once you've got a given forum "system" down it's reasonably easy to use other forums that are using the same forums management software.  It's also somewhat easier to plow your way through an unfamiliar forums software used elsewhere because you now have experience, and there are some strong similarities, though you may need or want sighted assistance to work through the differences.

Most online forum pages present lists of topics in the form of links, so using your screen reader to get a list of links is often a shortcut for getting a quick feel for what's currently being discussed.  Some, depending on how they've structured the page, might also be categorized as headings, so using that element type can also sometimes be helpful.  In the case of the particular forum Rayette shared the link to they structure their forums page such that threads are beautifully displayed as a list of headings, where the thread title is the heading.  In NVDA the level 0 heading is the forum title itself and all the level 1 headings are the threads.



--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

Oh, ok. Thanks. so do you think this forum would be easy to post in?


On 10/12/2016 11:16 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Based on Rayette's offering a link I think it's safe to say that participating in a web forum is what's being asked about.

Having visited the website there are actually two forums hosted there, a public one and a private one due to the sensitive nature of the potential conversations themselves.

The public forum allows you to post as an unregistered guest.  Once you activate the "Post New Topic" button you are presented with a web form (where you could log in if you have an account) but that by default shows you as user "Unregistered," offers a ReCaptcha (the audio version of which is a number sequence that's very easy to understand and spoken very slowly) to prove you're actually human, and the following fields and controls for your post:

  • Title
  • the actual message composition box, which NVDA announces as "Rich Text Editor" because that's what's used for composition.  You can simply type if you do not wish to employ any of the formatting buttons.
  • a dropdown box that allows you to give a specific trigger warning to potential readers about the nature of the content of your message
  • a submit new thread button
  • a preview post button

I would have to presume that the private forum setup would be largely the same but that since login is required no ReCaptcha would be used.  The preceding only covers posting, not reading, which is its own kettle of fish.

As Antony already noted, it's impossible to give truly generic instructions with regard to web forums, though there are several major formats that do get used repeatedly on different forums websites.  If you intend to get heavily involved on a specific web forum it really is helpful to have a sighted assistant during the first couple of tries just so they can walk you through the controls that they see (some of which you may or may not need).  Once you've got a given forum "system" down it's reasonably easy to use other forums that are using the same forums management software.  It's also somewhat easier to plow your way through an unfamiliar forums software used elsewhere because you now have experience, and there are some strong similarities, though you may need or want sighted assistance to work through the differences.

Most online forum pages present lists of topics in the form of links, so using your screen reader to get a list of links is often a shortcut for getting a quick feel for what's currently being discussed.  Some, depending on how they've structured the page, might also be categorized as headings, so using that element type can also sometimes be helpful.  In the case of the particular forum Rayette shared the link to they structure their forums page such that threads are beautifully displayed as a list of headings, where the thread title is the heading.  In NVDA the level 0 heading is the forum title itself and all the level 1 headings are the threads.



--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



-- 
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com


 

Rayette,

          That's difficult for me to say, not knowing you nor how web saavy you may or may not be on a global level.  Since you're new here (unless you're a lurker, in which case you may already know this) I am fully sighted but work extensively with blind or visually impaired individuals on how to use a computer either completely without vision or with the residual vision (or original limited vision) that they have.

           If you have someone who could be your sighted assistant, who you know and trust given the nature of the forum you've given the link to, and are good about navigating the web in general I feel rather certain you could get yourself up and running as a skilled forum participant on that site with practice in the mechanics of reading and posting for the specific forums management software that they're using.  If you are not a skilled web browser user already then it becomes far more complicated because you do need that base skill first.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

I'm really good at writing on forums. I do have a question though? How do i get out of the text editor with NVDA. Tabbing does nothing once i'm in that box.


On 10/12/2016 11:28 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rayette,

          That's difficult for me to say, not knowing you nor how web saavy you may or may not be on a global level.  Since you're new here (unless you're a lurker, in which case you may already know this) I am fully sighted but work extensively with blind or visually impaired individuals on how to use a computer either completely without vision or with the residual vision (or original limited vision) that they have.

           If you have someone who could be your sighted assistant, who you know and trust given the nature of the forum you've given the link to, and are good about navigating the web in general I feel rather certain you could get yourself up and running as a skilled forum participant on that site with practice in the mechanics of reading and posting for the specific forums management software that they're using.  If you are not a skilled web browser user already then it becomes far more complicated because you do need that base skill first.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



-- 
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com


 

Rayette,

                I have not figured out that little conundrum.  Nothing I've tried in NVDA has worked, at least not reliably.  At one point I thought I had it figured out by going from focus mode to browse mode and using comma to move me out of the edit box itself and to the resize control on the Rich Text Editing box, but I can't get beyond that on the http://www.fortrefuge.com/ forum page.  By contrast, on the groups.io site I can go from focus to browse mode, hit comma which takes me to the "edit box stretcher" on this forums website, then a single strike of B shoots me to the "Reply to Group" button.

                This website is behaving somewhat unpredictably in its interaction with NVDA as far as the Rich Text Formatting edit box.  Sometimes if I try comma after going into browse mode it takes me to the resizing control, other times it tells me "not in a container" even though I've just been entering text in that editor before shifting to browse mode and hitting comma.  

                Someone more skilled in NVDA than I might want to go to http://www.fortrefuge.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=94 ,which is their Post New Thread page to see if they can figure out how to escape that editing box/widget once it's been entered.  You do not have to complete a post, as I certainly have not and you also do not need to deal with the ReCaptcha to gain entrance to that editing space.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



 

Rayette,

          Do you use the mouse at all or are you willing to do so?  The Mouse Tracking feature of NVDA is one of my favorite things, particularly in thorny situations such as this one.  You could move your mouse until you hear that you're over the "Submit New Thread" or "Preview Post" buttons (if that's what you want to do) or even that the mouse isn't announcing that it's over any webpage object at all [which is probably best].  Clicking on "blank space" on the webpage shifts focus out of that rich text editing box then you can begin using the standard NVDA browsing commands you're accustomed to in order to navigate to the actual link/button/combo box or other thing you wish to have focus on.

It's a work-around, but one that works.
-- 
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

I'm willing to use it. I have a trackpad on my laptop...


On 10/12/2016 12:38 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Rayette,

          Do you use the mouse at all or are you willing to do so?  The Mouse Tracking feature of NVDA is one of my favorite things, particularly in thorny situations such as this one.  You could move your mouse until you hear that you're over the "Submit New Thread" or "Preview Post" buttons (if that's what you want to do) or even that the mouse isn't announcing that it's over any webpage object at all [which is probably best].  Clicking on "blank space" on the webpage shifts focus out of that rich text editing box then you can begin using the standard NVDA browsing commands you're accustomed to in order to navigate to the actual link/button/combo box or other thing you wish to have focus on.

It's a work-around, but one that works.
-- 
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



-- 
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com


Gene
 

Use the command control insert space to return to browse mode and have full movement on the page.  I'm  not sure I recall definitely what the technical explanation of this command is but I think it is supposed to get you out of a control if you are stuck in it in forms mode.  If you are stuck and cannot return to browse mode, it should be one of the first things you try.  You can use either insert.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] writing in forums on the web

Rayette,

                I have not figured out that little conundrum.  Nothing I've tried in NVDA has worked, at least not reliably.  At one point I thought I had it figured out by going from focus mode to browse mode and using comma to move me out of the edit box itself and to the resize control on the Rich Text Editing box, but I can't get beyond that on the http://www.fortrefuge.com/ forum page.  By contrast, on the groups.io site I can go from focus to browse mode, hit comma which takes me to the "edit box stretcher" on this forums website, then a single strike of B shoots me to the "Reply to Group" button.

                This website is behaving somewhat unpredictably in its interaction with NVDA as far as the Rich Text Formatting edit box.  Sometimes if I try comma after going into browse mode it takes me to the resizing control, other times it tells me "not in a container" even though I've just been entering text in that editor before shifting to browse mode and hitting comma.  

                Someone more skilled in NVDA than I might want to go to http://www.fortrefuge.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=94 ,which is their Post New Thread page to see if they can figure out how to escape that editing box/widget once it's been entered.  You do not have to complete a post, as I certainly have not and you also do not need to deal with the ReCaptcha to gain entrance to that editing space.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

Oh, ok.



On 10/12/2016 12:55 PM, Gene wrote:
Use the command control insert space to return to browse mode and have full movement on the page.  I'm  not sure I recall definitely what the technical explanation of this command is but I think it is supposed to get you out of a control if you are stuck in it in forms mode.  If you are stuck and cannot return to browse mode, it should be one of the first things you try.  You can use either insert.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] writing in forums on the web

Rayette,

                I have not figured out that little conundrum.  Nothing I've tried in NVDA has worked, at least not reliably.  At one point I thought I had it figured out by going from focus mode to browse mode and using comma to move me out of the edit box itself and to the resize control on the Rich Text Editing box, but I can't get beyond that on the http://www.fortrefuge.com/ forum page.  By contrast, on the groups.io site I can go from focus to browse mode, hit comma which takes me to the "edit box stretcher" on this forums website, then a single strike of B shoots me to the "Reply to Group" button.

                This website is behaving somewhat unpredictably in its interaction with NVDA as far as the Rich Text Formatting edit box.  Sometimes if I try comma after going into browse mode it takes me to the resizing control, other times it tells me "not in a container" even though I've just been entering text in that editor before shifting to browse mode and hitting comma.  

                Someone more skilled in NVDA than I might want to go to http://www.fortrefuge.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=94 ,which is their Post New Thread page to see if they can figure out how to escape that editing box/widget once it's been entered.  You do not have to complete a post, as I certainly have not and you also do not need to deal with the ReCaptcha to gain entrance to that editing space.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



-- 
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com


Rayette Rucker <rayette.rucker23@...>
 

Oh, ok. Thanks.
On 10/12/2016 12:55 PM, Gene wrote:
Use the command control insert space to return to browse mode and have full movement on the page.  I'm  not sure I recall definitely what the technical explanation of this command is but I think it is supposed to get you out of a control if you are stuck in it in forms mode.  If you are stuck and cannot return to browse mode, it should be one of the first things you try.  You can use either insert.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] writing in forums on the web

Rayette,

                I have not figured out that little conundrum.  Nothing I've tried in NVDA has worked, at least not reliably.  At one point I thought I had it figured out by going from focus mode to browse mode and using comma to move me out of the edit box itself and to the resize control on the Rich Text Editing box, but I can't get beyond that on the http://www.fortrefuge.com/ forum page.  By contrast, on the groups.io site I can go from focus to browse mode, hit comma which takes me to the "edit box stretcher" on this forums website, then a single strike of B shoots me to the "Reply to Group" button.

                This website is behaving somewhat unpredictably in its interaction with NVDA as far as the Rich Text Formatting edit box.  Sometimes if I try comma after going into browse mode it takes me to the resizing control, other times it tells me "not in a container" even though I've just been entering text in that editor before shifting to browse mode and hitting comma.  

                Someone more skilled in NVDA than I might want to go to http://www.fortrefuge.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=94 ,which is their Post New Thread page to see if they can figure out how to escape that editing box/widget once it's been entered.  You do not have to complete a post, as I certainly have not and you also do not need to deal with the ReCaptcha to gain entrance to that editing space.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



-- 
Check out my blog at https://therapyramblings.wordpress.com


 

Gene,

            Thanks for the NVDA+CTRL+Spacebar command.  I don't think I've ever been stuck in an online form field prior to today's experiments, which surprises me given how many online forms (whether on a forum website or otherwise) I've slogged through with clients.  It seems that the CTRL addition is a sort of "force" or "on steroids" return to full browse mode.

             There's nothing like a skilled and regular user to know these kinds of seldom used, but invaluable when you find yourself in the situations they're meant for, commands.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Gene
 

I'm glad I could help and I hope it helps when you work with students.  I haven't seen this problem on forms before.  This field appears to be quite nonstandard.  Where I generally use the command is when I am working with an embedded object and can't return to the main page and be in browse mode with the usual commands.  I would imagine this command will need to be used a lot less as HTML5 becomes more widely used but it's very useful now in the context I discussed.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] writing in forums on the web

Gene,

            Thanks for the NVDA+CTRL+Spacebar command.  I don't think I've ever been stuck in an online form field prior to today's experiments, which surprises me given how many online forms (whether on a forum website or otherwise) I've slogged through with clients.  It seems that the CTRL addition is a sort of "force" or "on steroids" return to full browse mode.

             There's nothing like a skilled and regular user to know these kinds of seldom used, but invaluable when you find yourself in the situations they're meant for, commands.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall