How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
Ann Byrne <annakb@...>
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.
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Rui Fontes
That is simple...
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Press NVDA+NumLock7 to access ScreenReview... Rui Fontes Às 16:40 de 23/12/2018, Ann Byrne escreveu:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.
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David Goldfield
Ann, I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so. A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate,
the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never
have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review
mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a
screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability. David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.
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Hi,
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If you're coming from JAWS to NVDA, object navigation may sound similar to touch cursor from JAWS. In fact, they are really the same. You can't navigate freely via JAWS cursor, or in terms of NVDA, a combination of review cursor and screen review in more recent apps. Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ann Byrne Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:40 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.
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Hi, If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
Ann, I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so. A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability. David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
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Brice Mijares
I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
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Hi,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Gene
If you do that, then after you use it, Press NVDA key 1 to return to
objecgt review. If you don’t do this, some ways you move around the screen
won’t work correctly.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor That
is simple... Press NVDA+NumLock7 to access ScreenReview... Rui Fontes Às 16:40 de 23/12/2018, Ann Byrne escreveu: > My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I > struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often > does. > > > > >
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Gene
JAWS has another navigation method now. I’m not sure what it is
called. It can probably see all the things you don’t see when using the
JAWS cursor.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Goldfield
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor Ann, I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so. A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method
of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as
the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a
JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad
will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just
doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to
use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object
navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for
all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number
pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and
next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for
previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since
ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its
review capability. David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor often does.
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Pascal Lambert <coccinelle86@...>
Hi Joseph,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Rosemarie Chavarria
I too would like to have a tutorial on object navigation. Merry Christmas to all on list.
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On 12/23/2018 10:10 AM, Pascal Lambert wrote:
Hi Joseph,
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molly the blind tech lover
Merry Christmas, guys.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 1:11 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Hi,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer. Cheers, Jsoeph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Hi, Yes, touch cursor, which is essential object navigation. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:50 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
JAWS has another navigation method now. I’m not sure what it is called. It can probably see all the things you don’t see when using the JAWS cursor.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: David Goldfield Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
Ann, I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so. A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability. David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
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Adriani Botez
Hey Joseph,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer. Cheers, Jsoeph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Hi,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on (what if some people do not wish to use the add-on). Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hey Joseph, maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer. Cheers, Jsoeph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Gary Metzler
Hi Joseph,
Doing that will be most helpful. Thanks,
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 11:58 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor
Hi, If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Ann, I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0. At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so. A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation. However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8 and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous, current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability. David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
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Adriani Botez
Hi,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
well, the add-on simplifies object navigation for the normal user. I thought the tutorial was intended to address the normal users incl. beginners. But yes, an advanced user tutorial would ofcourse include also the principles of object hierarchy and the difference between simple and detailed object hierarchy. I don't know if this is understandable for beginners. We must bare in mind that object navigation principles can be very complex and in some cases could overwelm users. I would try to explain it as simple as possible without much developping details. Maybe two or three practical examples would bring more benefits for users than the theoretical principles behind it. But this is only my opinion. In a second tutorial theoretical principles could be addressed, if people want it. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:46 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on (what if some people do not wish to use the add-on). Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hey Joseph, maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer. Cheers, Jsoeph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Adriani Botez
The big advantage of the add-on are the unified keyboard commands. The Desktop and laptop keyboard layout approach used in NVDA is in my view outdated and actually not very user friendly.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Adriani Botez via Groups.Io Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:53 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, well, the add-on simplifies object navigation for the normal user. I thought the tutorial was intended to address the normal users incl. beginners. But yes, an advanced user tutorial would ofcourse include also the principles of object hierarchy and the difference between simple and detailed object hierarchy. I don't know if this is understandable for beginners. We must bare in mind that object navigation principles can be very complex and in some cases could overwelm users. I would try to explain it as simple as possible without much developping details. Maybe two or three practical examples would bring more benefits for users than the theoretical principles behind it. But this is only my opinion. In a second tutorial theoretical principles could be addressed, if people want it. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:46 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on (what if some people do not wish to use the add-on). Cheers, Joseph
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hey Joseph, maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer. Cheers, Jsoeph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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Joseph,
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I agree. Rick
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 1:46 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on (what if some people do not wish to use the add-on). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hey Joseph, maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example. Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer. Cheers, Jsoeph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi Joseph, I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it. Have a merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to all. Blessings Pascal -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor Hi, In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will). I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities). Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You. On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi,
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