Groups.io accessibility enhancements.


 

For the past few days I've been emailing mark, the creator of this site, and letting him know about some unlabeled edit fields and otherwise that need fixing. To make a long story short, the wiki for all groups should  have better labels, hashtag creation should work better for keyboards, and, finally, some settings options and otherwise should work better with keyboards. Unfortunately, he does not use a screen reader, so is there a tool or similar that can look through a site's code and attach labels to missing form elements? Because it's a lot of work to go through page by page! I plan on writing him about the, compose a new topic, page next, and, I also plan on telling him to add a heading, at the start of every topics page, where the list of topics are at? Does anyone know how he can turn that side menu into a navigation landmark? The menu that has admin, wiki, calendar, ETC? the support email is below if any of you have any suggestions but I'd suggest making them actionable suggestions because he does not test with a screen reader.


support@groups.io


 

Hi,

I think it’d be best to let Mark talk to some experts, including Marco Zehe (I think he is part of our group; Marco is a quality assurance engineer from Mozilla and a famous name in web accessibility).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 5:58 AM
To: Access team emails <team@accessmedia.groups.io>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Groups.io accessibility enhancements.

 

For the past few days I've been emailing mark, the creator of this site, and letting him know about some unlabeled edit fields and otherwise that need fixing. To make a long story short, the wiki for all groups should  have better labels, hashtag creation should work better for keyboards, and, finally, some settings options and otherwise should work better with keyboards. Unfortunately, he does not use a screen reader, so is there a tool or similar that can look through a site's code and attach labels to missing form elements? Because it's a lot of work to go through page by page! I plan on writing him about the, compose a new topic, page next, and, I also plan on telling him to add a heading, at the start of every topics page, where the list of topics are at? Does anyone know how he can turn that side menu into a navigation landmark? The menu that has admin, wiki, calendar, ETC? the support email is below if any of you have any suggestions but I'd suggest making them actionable suggestions because he does not test with a screen reader.

 

support@groups.io


 

Robert,

              Good for you for doing the grunt work of communicating with Mark about accessibility issues.  He tends to be quite responsive when he can be.  What follows is something I recently sent a client who was facing the same sort of issues with a corporate website.  It should also be useful here.

         I wanted to make sure to send you what follows.  It is not that you will necessarily use any of it directly, but these are powerful pieces of information to pass along when you're working with any organization where the goal is increasing the accessibility of their webpages.
 
           The first is the WAVE Web Accessibility Evaluation Tool:  
 
http://wave.webaim.org/
On this webpage you supply the web address of the webpage you wish to have analyzed from an accessibility perspective.  The tool identifies all (or at least most) of the page coding errors that restrict accessibility and gives direct instructions on how to fix them.  It can be invaluable information for web developers who have never taken accessibility into account and in showing them easy ways to do so going forward.
 
             There is also a form and checklist at the webaim.org site that can help web programmers:
 
              The formal conventions document (or one of the major ones, there are a couple of others, and it makes reference to them) is the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines which are available here:  
 
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/
 
               These are all things you might want to pass along not only to tech geeks, but to those who are working with them to create new web content.  Even the non-technically minded can find it enlightening to run WAVE against a webpage that's really accessible to a screen reader user then do the same for one that's not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes it is difficult for site builders, as through no fault of their own, none of this is taught or at least was not taught in courses.
I saw a report recently that is still saying that expertise is still thin on the ground and will remain so as long as people who make authoring tools and databases for web sites with scant regard for blind access. Indeed I'd go as far as say that even sighted people are getting fed up with clever effects and stuff when they really want to get a job done fast and be out of there.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2019 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Groups.io accessibility enhancements.


Hi,

I think it’d be best to let Mark talk to some experts, including Marco Zehe (I think he is part of our group; Marco is a quality assurance engineer from Mozilla and a famous name in web accessibility).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 5:58 AM
To: Access team emails <team@accessmedia.groups.io>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Groups.io accessibility enhancements.



For the past few days I've been emailing mark, the creator of this site, and letting him know about some unlabeled edit fields and otherwise that need fixing. To make a long story short, the wiki for all groups should have better labels, hashtag creation should work better for keyboards, and, finally, some settings options and otherwise should work better with keyboards. Unfortunately, he does not use a screen reader, so is there a tool or similar that can look through a site's code and attach labels to missing form elements? Because it's a lot of work to go through page by page! I plan on writing him about the, compose a new topic, page next, and, I also plan on telling him to add a heading, at the start of every topics page, where the list of topics are at? Does anyone know how he can turn that side menu into a navigation landmark? The menu that has admin, wiki, calendar, ETC? the support email is below if any of you have any suggestions but I'd suggest making them actionable suggestions because he does not test with a screen reader.



support@groups.io <mailto:support@groups.io>


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Thanks for this, am having issues with the uk nhs registration and survey sites as wee speak though the term thick comes to mind when discussing their reaction thus far.. grin.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2019 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Groups.io accessibility enhancements.


Robert,

Good for you for doing the grunt work of communicating with Mark about accessibility issues. He tends to be quite responsive when he can be. What follows is something I recently sent a client who was facing the same sort of issues with a corporate website. It should also be useful here.

I wanted to make sure to send you what follows. It is not that you will necessarily use any of it directly, but these are powerful pieces of information to pass along when you're working with any organization where the goal is increasing the accessibility of their webpages.

The first is the WAVE Web Accessibility Evaluation Tool:

http://wave.webaim.org/
On this webpage you supply the web address of the webpage you wish to have analyzed from an accessibility perspective. The tool identifies all (or at least most) of the page coding errors that restrict accessibility and gives direct instructions on how to fix them. It can be invaluable information for web developers who have never taken accessibility into account and in showing them easy ways to do so going forward.

There is also a form and checklist at the webaim.org ( http://webaim.org/ ) site that can help web programmers:

https://webaim.org/techniques/ forms/ ( https://webaim.org/techniques/forms/ )
https://webaim.org/standards/ wcag/checklist ( https://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist )

The formal conventions document (or one of the major ones, there are a couple of others, and it makes reference to them) is the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines which are available here:

https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/

These are all things you might want to pass along not only to tech geeks, but to those who are working with them to create new web content. Even the non-technically minded can find it enlightening to run WAVE against a webpage that's really accessible to a screen reader user then do the same for one that's not.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


 

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:51 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I saw a report recently that is still saying that expertise is still thin on the ground and will remain so as long as people who make authoring tools and databases for web sites with scant regard for blind access. Indeed I'd go as far as say that even sighted people are getting fed up with clever effects and stuff when they really want to get a job done fast and be out of there.
With regard to your observation on sighted people, I'd say it's very largely accurate and well-characterized by this quotation, which has long been a favorite:

                  A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.

                                          ~ Bill Gray

With regard to the former, it's still very largely true.   Accessibility is now taught in formal courses, but even with that, one has to realize the visual nature of the medium of text itself and, equally importantly, the transitory nature of a lot of content out there.   There's always going to be a lot of stuff that's inaccessible or minimally accessible because it's creation was "quick and dirty" and its lifespan brief.   I can't imagine a lot of accessibility thought going in to, say, the promo websites for specific movies prior to their wide releases, and those vanish almost as quickly as they appear.

My hope, actually, is that accessibility will become the standard over time for sites that are both pretty permanent in nature and that require a lot of user interaction.  Though things move in that direction and are continuing to do so, the whole world of web coding is still in a constant state of flux and poor screen reader developers are doomed to constantly be playing catch up for as far ahead in time as I can project at the moment.

What constantly shocks me is that many (perhaps most, but I'm not doing any exhaustive checks) state and federal agencies have not done anything really significant over time, even with the ADA in force, to make their stuff accessible.  And I still firmly believe that it will only be because of laws that accessibility will become more widespread.  A lot of people won't do anything they don't have to do (and some ignore that).

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


 

This might help, if it hasn’t already been provided:

https://wave.webaim.org/

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 8:58 AM
To: Access team emails <team@accessmedia.groups.io>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Groups.io accessibility enhancements.

 

For the past few days I've been emailing mark, the creator of this site, and letting him know about some unlabeled edit fields and otherwise that need fixing. To make a long story short, the wiki for all groups should  have better labels, hashtag creation should work better for keyboards, and, finally, some settings options and otherwise should work better with keyboards. Unfortunately, he does not use a screen reader, so is there a tool or similar that can look through a site's code and attach labels to missing form elements? Because it's a lot of work to go through page by page! I plan on writing him about the, compose a new topic, page next, and, I also plan on telling him to add a heading, at the start of every topics page, where the list of topics are at? Does anyone know how he can turn that side menu into a navigation landmark? The menu that has admin, wiki, calendar, ETC? the support email is below if any of you have any suggestions but I'd suggest making them actionable suggestions because he does not test with a screen reader.

 

support@groups.io


 

I sent Mark the links with some overall backrounds and explanations of how he can make the site better, moving forward. He's making apps now, so that people on mobile devices can use apps to interact with these email groups. Also, I'm noticing the same thing about sighted people and technology. They are caring less about how sites look and more about function. I've noticed a lot of sighted people using the mobile version, HTML only, gmail, and HTML only facebook, for example. This is all good stuff when I talk to Patreon, too. I explained to mark that when he makes his apps, if he keeps things simple and standard, IOS and Android will do a lot of the heavy lifting for him. Standard controls and buttons. All he would have to do is label stuff. He's busy building a payment system into groups.io where people can charge group members to join a group or ask for donations without a third party, which will be nice, but the mobile app is most interesting of all. I've longed for a day where email lists and app social networks, groups, combined.