speaking passwords instead of star
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Brian K. Lingard
Dear Giles & List:
Mot sure, if NVDA provides means of reading the asci value of a character, however, if it does, finding out the new character should be simple. If need be, you can install a demo of JAWS and use it in 40-minute mode to discover the masking characters. Brian K. Lingard
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf of Giles Turnbull
Hi Brian, _._,_._,_ |
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I never use this kind of button. Seriously, I'm very careful when it
comes to passwords.
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I always wonder why people want a button to show their passwords on screen if they know what they are typing. Anyway, back to the passwords as beep tones, I'm sure it would be too easy to do if anyone who know how to do it is interested. It's a matter of spread this idea, I guess. Em 11/01/2019 14:07, Brian Vogel
escreveu:
Just confirmed my theory that the password characters themselves will be spoken if one activates the "Show Password" button when it's available, and they're becoming more and more available. |
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Just confirmed my theory that the password characters themselves will be spoken if one activates the "Show Password" button when it's available, and they're becoming more and more available.
Test was done on the login page for Gmail webmail. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
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Marcio,
I've always wondered whether, buried somewhere deep in settings that I don't know about, whether or not there is a setting for, "When individual password characters are typed, report as:" actually already exists. There already exists, for instance, the "Progress bar output," setting, which defaults to beep, and has the options speak, and speak and beep as well. To me it would make sense to have a parallel setting for password characters, since nothing that's being pronounced when entering them is anything other than a placeholder under normal circumstances. I'd love to see something like this with options beep/tone, replacement character used. Some would argue, given how often it seems a small contingent asks for passwords to be announced, that a third option, actual character pressed, should be there, too. I've become tired of trying to protect people from themselves when it comes to the security of passwords, and there's already an add-on that makes this possible in practice. It's very poor practice, but it's clear that certain people will go to great lengths to have them announced. These days, with the near ubiquity of the "show password" button at the end of password entry fields (which I also think insane, but there it is) one can probably get the actual password read character by character if you activate it before entering the password. These always revert back to "hide password" initially on the next login attempt. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
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Em 11/01/2019 12:50, Brian Vogel escreveu:
If ever there were a place for just a quick tone as each character is typed this would be it.Wow, it sounds interesting to be an add-on or a built-in NVDA concept. Why you don't pass this idea through the NVDA add-ons list? Someone would be interested too. |
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Giles,
What you've pasted above certainly looks correct. I'll check the next time I'm logging in, but I doubt that I'm going to find anything different. Personally, I've always hated the "star, star, star, star," convention. If ever there were a place for just a quick tone as each character is typed this would be it. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
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Hi Brian,
it's just the initial logon screen for Win10. I use a PIN and each number is obfuscated with a character that NVDA describes as a circle, but my old dictionary entry for this circle symbol, ●, to be spoken as "star" has stopped working, which makes me think Microsoft have changed which symbol is being used. It's not a major issue but I did like to hear that a symbol, be it a circle or an asterisk, had been typed :) I'll play around with some of the other bullet / circle symbols in the NVDA dictionary at some point :) Giles |
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Giles,
Would you mind sharing the website in question? I might be able to snag it even if I try doing a completely faux login. In most cases it looks just like the character used for round bullets in a bulleted list, but who knows. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
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I have a related problem. I programmed the circle symbol that is used in place of the asterisk into the NVDA dictionary so that it says star star star star for a 4 digit PIN. After a recent Windows update I suspect they must have changed the circle character used to obscure the password ... if I left cursor back a character it says "circle" but I can't copy the circle to program it into the default dictionary so that NVDA speaks "star" again!
Does anybody have any suggestions about which circle character is being used? I tried running speech viewer on the logon screen but that didn't record anything either with regards to the password symbol. Giles |
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Brian's Mail list account
You may find if it says nothing, than speak passwords won't operate, or to be more accurate, the echo back might not actually be what you put in at your end.
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I know of no real way to find this out, as after all if the password repeated back instead of star or circle or whatever, then anyone could see it. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Isaac" <bigikemusic@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] speaking passwords instead of star Well, I have a program that is very slugish about entering passwords so I want them spoken aloud to know there inputted as this particular program doesn't say star or anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Vogel To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] speaking passwords instead of star On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 11:20 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: especially in a public place like a library. I doubt that many do this, but any that do have no one to blame but themselves when the inevitable account compromises come. Passwords (or pass phrases) belong in two areas: One's own head and/or a password manager program that encrypts the file containing the actual passwords. All the reasons that have ever been given for reading them aloud when typed ring entirely hollow to me. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back |
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Brian's Mail list account
Well, I guess it does depend on what data is in the account. I can see that some accounts, say one I use on the BBC has no personal data in it, it is merely forced on us so the BBC can see what is being watched, and probably in the future check if we have paid the licence.
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The danger I think is that its not selective in that if you forget an leave it on when doing banking then its going to be a major issue if you are outside of your home. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] speaking passwords instead of star On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 11:20 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: I doubt that many do this, but any that do have no one to blame but themselves when the inevitable account compromises come. Passwords (or pass phrases) belong in two areas: One's own head and/or a password manager program that encrypts the file containing the actual passwords. All the reasons that have ever been given for reading them aloud when typed ring entirely hollow to me. -- Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.* ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back |
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Hi
There is an add-on called Speak password, and I wrote a very short article for it. Take a look at: https://saomaicenter.org/en/blog/access-tech/nvda-add-speak-password Cuong ----------------
Dang Manh Cuong The Assistive technology specialist Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind 52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam. Tel: +8428 7302-4488 E-mail: info@...; tech@... Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saomaicenterfortheblind Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org Mobile / Zalo: +84 902-572-300 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@... Skype name: dangmanhcuong facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong Twitter: @ManhCuongTech NVDA Certified Expert: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
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Brian K. Lingard
I am a bad typist; habitually press unwanted keys plus the ones I want.
For this reason, I keep many passwords in a file and copy them into secure fields. Brian K. Lingard
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Isaac
Sent: January 9, 2019 11:09 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] speaking passwords instead of star
Hi, is there a way to set nvda to say a password when I type it instead of star and read the field I am writing in without it saying star? _._,_._,_ |
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Yeah I never whare headphones as I can't hear well anyway, so that's why I trust my fingers or a password mamager where I can copy paste theepassword. On 9 Jan 2019, at 11:05, Ann Byrne wrote:
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Ann Byrne <annakb@...>
Sometimes you just need to be sure you typed it in right. It's easy enough to silence when nobody else should hear. Really, if you are near other people, it's polite to wear head phones, in which case nobody would hear it anyway.
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At 10:27 AM 1/9/2019, you wrote:
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Chris
Not in nvda itself but there is a addon called something like speak password which is still available on the nvda addons web page
From: Isaac
Sent: 09 January 2019 16:08 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] speaking passwords instead of star
Hi, is there a way to set nvda to say a password when I type it instead of star and read the field I am writing in with out it saying star?
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I personally would not do that for security reasons. I'm sure there is a way, but I don't know it as I would in my humble opinion never use it unless I was typing in a 36 char password (I have some of those) and need to verify it, but that's it. On 9 Jan 2019, at 8:08, Isaac wrote:
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Gene
Not in a public place, but in a private place, or
when using headphones, it may be useful. While I haven't paid much
attention to this, it seems to me that some sites ask you to verify your
password when setting up an account and some don't. If a site doesn't ask
you to do this, then you can't confirm the password is typed correctly when
setting up an account. If you type carefully, that isn't usually a problem
but you should have the option to check what you are doing. of course, you
have to use common sense gbut people are responsible for their own sstupidity
beyond a certain point and programmers shouldn't protect them from it or they
should provide ways around the protection in many cases.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] speaking passwords instead of
star I don't understand why anybody would want their password spoken either--especially in a public place like a library.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Rosemarie is right, just off by 1 letter: Speak PasswordsBe very, very careful about what machines you're using this
on and who else might be around. Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
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On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 11:27 AM, Isaac wrote:
I have a program that is very slugish about entering passwords so I want them spoken aloud to know there inputted as this particular program doesn't say star or anything.Which is an even better justification for a password manager program, where you generally have the option to either copy and paste, so no typing is necessary, or actually having the password manager enter the login information for you. There's very little learning curve, particularly for the copy and paste option, which is what I use most frequently because some websites just don't work well with the "automatic filling in" function, and I can never remember which are the cranky ones. -- Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
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Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
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Well, I have a program that is very slugish about
entering passwords so I want them spoken aloud to know there inputted as this
particular program doesn't say star or anything.
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