NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands


Cristóbal
 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

 

for jumping by paragraph we use ctrl+down and up arrow. To jump word by word use ctrl+left and right arrow. To jump line by line use just up and down arrow.

 

In MS Word you can jump sentence by sentence using alt+up and down arrow. You can also download the add-ons sentencenav, indentnav and textnav which gives you even more features. You can find them here:

 

Sentencenav:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/sentenceNav.en.html

 

Textnav:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/textnav.en.html

 

Indentnav:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/indentNav.en.html

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Cristóbal
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Januar 2019 00:19
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


 

Look at this link, maybe it can help you.

Cheers,
Marcio
Em 20/01/2019 21:19, Crist�bal escreveu:

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can�t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one�s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I�m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they�re two different products. I�m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Crist�bal

�



 

Wow, I didn't know about any add-on on this, only Textnav. Will try these as well.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 20/01/2019 21:27, Adriani Botez escreveu:

Hello,

�

for jumping by paragraph we use ctrl+down and up arrow. To jump word by word use ctrl+left and right arrow. To jump line by line use just up and down arrow.

�

In MS Word you can jump sentence by sentence using alt+up and down arrow. You can also download the add-ons sentencenav, indentnav and textnav which gives you even more features. You can find them here:

�

Sentencenav:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/sentenceNav.en.html

�

Textnav:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/textnav.en.html

�

Indentnav:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/indentNav.en.html

�

Best

Adriani

�

�

�

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Crist�bal
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Januar 2019 00:19
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

�

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can�t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one�s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I�m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they�re two different products. I�m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Crist�bal

�



Gene
 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Gene
 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 
Up by paragraph, control up arrow.
 
I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.
 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Cristóbal
 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Usually, control right/left arrow moves by word.  Don't know if this is what the op was wanting to know, but there it is.  It doesn't always work, depending on the program, but usually it does.


On 1/20/2019 7:45 PM, Gene wrote:
I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 
Up by paragraph, control up arrow.
 
I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.
 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Gene
 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Cristóbal
 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

 

ah now I understand what you are asking for. No, in NVDA there isn’t such a feature. But you could write to the author of the add-ons sentencenav, textnav and indentnav. His name is Tony Malykh. Maybe he can implement such a feature in one of those add-ons.

 

Basically, what you are requesting is a feature to read current, previous and next character/word/line/paragraph without moving the system carret in edit fields and editors.

 

You could also fill the feature template on Github and propose this feature. The link is here:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/new?template=feature_request.md

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Cristóbal
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Januar 2019 19:06
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Gene
 

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cristóbal
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


Cristóbal
 

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


 

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 Gene wrote:
I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.
And I think you say that because you've never used a system where one's hands never leave the alphanumeric keyboard.  As someone who did, for years, with a text editor I can tell you that extending your left pinky to CAPS LOCK or similar is generally much faster than moving either hand in full (or even "hyperextended" in part) off of the alphanumeric keyboard.

That's one of the reasons that many text editors designed for programmers work that way, so that one never lifts one's hand from the main keyboard.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 


 

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 



 

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 04:46 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes?
Even if one can, this is a "proceed with caution" area.

There was a time when I was first tutoring that I subscribed to the "customize everything however much you want to to make your computing environment suit yourself."  Over time I learned that overdoing this makes one like a deer in the headlights if faced with having to use another machine, even temporarily, if too much has been changed from defaults that it's impossible for the user to even remember all of what they've customized.

When it comes to native screen reader commands, regardless of the screen reader, I would be very, very cautious about reassigning them even if that's possible.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Not reassign. I'd rather add the keystrokes as alternatives, but I guess reassign would be a better word for now, as long as you can go back to default in case you mess up.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 14:02, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal

 



 

Well, I don't know if you can go back.
That's an interesting point, though. Wondering whether when we choose to get back NVDA to default settings, that also would affect hotkeys that we've changed.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 20:23, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

Not reassign. I'd rather add the keystrokes as alternatives, but I guess reassign would be a better word for now, as long as you can go back to default in case you mess up.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 14:02, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

I guess you can do it through the input settings, guess that's the name of it.
Anyway, it's something having to do with lots of functions in a list where you can reassign its hotkeys.

Cheers,
Marcio
Follow me on Twitter

Em 21/01/2019 19:46, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I wonder if you can remap laptop keystrokes? If you can you could probably add nvda u i and o for next, current and prev line, and then j k and l for words and n m and cama for characters.

On 21 Jan 2019, at 13:21, Cristóbal wrote:

Indeed, it’s mainly a right  handed thing. Left hand doesn’t go anywhere.

Different strokes for different folks. Some may find one way to be more or less efficient. I’m not going to say that having to use the numpad or arrow keys is bad. I just find it that the less I have to move my right hand around the keyboard throughout the day, the less disruptive I find it to be.

Seeing as how NVDA doesn’t really have all that many alphanumeric keyboard commands, I find it odd that there really isn’t much beyond capslock+L so you can keep both hands on the keyboard. Anyway, and so it goes…

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

In my case I never move my left hand when using capslock. But my fingers are very very long so I can do that.

Take care

On 21 Jan 2019, at 12:45, Gene wrote:

I think its because you are used to that method.  I very much doubt that for a regular numpad user, there is any loss of efficiency.  And if you use caps lock, you are still moving your left hand away from the home keys.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 12:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

With Jaws, I always enable the laptop keyboard layout, be it for my desktops or laptops. Indeed, I do use the numpad and arrow keys for commands, but having the ability to use the same navigational commands on the main keyboard itself as well proves to be a huge efficiency booster and time saver.

I.E. commands such as capslock+N, comma or period for previous character, current character, next character. Capslock+ J, K or L for previous word, current word and next word. Capslock+ U, I or O for previous line, current line and next line. Same for paragraph and sentence, etc.

Again, it’s not that switching back and forth between the main keyboard to either the arrow keys or numpad is especially burdensome, but depending on what you may be doing multiplied by hundreds of times in a day, thee navigational commands via the laptop keyboard layout just feels like a more efficient process of getting things done.

The only command I came across for anything similar with NVDA is the capslock+L command for say current line. It doesn’t seem like there are too many NVDA keystroke commands that make use of the capslock+ the letters on the keyboard. Thus my query if I was in fact missing something and there were in fact keystroke commands beyond this one command or an add-on that expanded on this capability.

So yes, I am well aware of all the various numpad navigational commands as well as using the four arrow keys, but my question was on whether these same commands could also be replicated via the main keyboard. Just use the numpad or arrow keys really doesn’t address my question. If there is in fact not a current means of doing this either through a built in function in NVDA itself or through an add-on, then that would also be good to know.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Are you saying you want to use movement commands where you use keyboard commands for movement in JAWS that duplicate the numpad movement commands in desktop layout?  NVDA doesn't have such commands.  The numpad isn't used for that purpose in the desktop layout and such commands aren't duplicated on the laptop.  If that is what you are saying, I think that if you got used to it and gave it time, you would find movement with the keyboard commands such as control plus arrow keys to be as efficient.  Its muscle memory, as you said.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I’ve been using Jaws going on 18 years now.

I am aware of the various Jaws screen reader and windows numpad keystroke commands.

My query was on commands for navigating via the keyboard in a laptop mode. As I mentioned going back and forth between the keyboard and the numpad/arrow keys for me at least takes away from the efficiency as opposed to with Jaws where you can do navigate by character, word, line or paragraph without ever having to take your hands away from the main keyboard itself. It’s not that going back and forth between the main keyboard and numpad or arrow keys is that big a deal, but do it hundreds of times throughout the day and in the aggregate  can quickly become noticeable and tedious.

Thus my question on whether there were NVDA commands and or an add-on beyond the capslock+L for read current line that also allowed for further navigation without having to use the numpad and even the arrow keys.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I should say, on seeing further discussion, that I'm not sure what you mean by jump by word.  As has been said, control down arrow moves down by paragraph and you can use all the standard movement commands.  They are not screen-reader commands.  If someone only taught you the numpad command movement commands in JAWS or the laptop alternative numpad movement commands, that's negligence.  In any screen-reader, or even if you weren't using one, you can use all these commands.  Right arrow, move one character right.  Left arrow, move one character left.  Up arrow, move up one line.  Down arrow, move down one line.  Down by paragraph, control down arrow. 

Up by paragraph, control up arrow.

 

I'm not sure if those are the kinds of commands you want to know but I suspect you were only taught the JAWS numpad or the JAWS laptop movement commands and not the Windows commands and that is incompetent teaching beyond belief, if that is what was done.

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:51 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

I don't use the laptop layout in NVDA.  I wouldn't even if I had a laptop without a numpad.  I much prefer the desktop layout.  I haven't looked at the laptop commands much but they don't seem consistent to me in terms of following patterns nearly as much as the desktop layout does.  If you are looking at commands using something like the commands reference and you are using the laptop commands, those are the ones to use.  If you want to get a USB numpad and use the desktop layout, I don't know if you would like the structure more but I prefer it a great deal more.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Cristóbal

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 5:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA keyboard navigation keyboard commands

 

Hello list,

So I am mainly a Jaws user, but have been trying to make the effort to use NVDA more or at least become more proficient with it. The one issue I continue to have with NVDA and just can’t get used to is the keyboard navigation. I know it in part has to do with simple muscle memory with Jaws commands, but outside of the NVDA key (caps lock) plus L command to read the current line, I just cannot get used to not being able to jump around via paragraph or line or word, etc., like in Jaws laptop keyboard layout. Am I just missing something and am not aware of other keyboard navigational keystroke commands in NVDA or is there perhaps an add-on I can install?

Yes, I know there are all the numpad commands, but with Jaws at least, being able to keep one’s hands on the keyboard instead of having to switch back and forth adds up and makes a difference and comfort. And to be clear, I’m not looking for a Jaws clone and am aware that they’re two different products. I’m completely open to this different approach, but this navigational thing is for me anyway proving to be the one major stumbling bock to try to use it more.

I would appreciate any enlightenment.

Thanks,

Cristóbal