trouble closing NVDA


Lou Kolb <loukolb@...>
 

I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou


Gene
 

Are you using any add-ons?  Also, you don't have to shut down the computer to unload NVDA.  I don't use Windows 10 so someone else can tell you how to use the task manager to stop the program.  Using the task manager is something you should know regardless of whether you have this problem.  it is necessary, at times, to use it to shut down programs that have frozen or can't be shut down properly for some reason.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Lou Kolb
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2019 1:23 PM
Subject: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA

I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou



Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Lou,

I haven't seen this, but I would be interested to see a copy of your NVDA log if you could send it to me please.

One thing to check is are you running any add-ons, and if so, are they up to date?  If you update any add-ons, and / or restart NVDA with add-ons disabled, it would be interested to see if it still happens.

Since the exit screen isn't working, you can restart NVDA without add-ons by pressing WINDOWS+R to open the run dialog, then copy or type the following in to it and press ENTER:

nvda -rm --disable-addons 

Kind regards

Quentin. 


On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 8:45 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Tony Malykh
 

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.

On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou


Quentin Christensen
 

You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what is causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
> I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
> Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
> however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
> Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
> continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
> the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
> on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
> for it? Thanks. Lou
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Lou Kolb <loukolb@...>
 

Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out what is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com> wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




Quentin Christensen
 

Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)

If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).  You can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and the previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at : https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Regards

Quentin.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
> WINDOWS+R, then type:
>
> nvda -q
>
> and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what is
> causing the problem in any case.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
>
>> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>>
>> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>>
>> In Administrator command prompt.
>>
>>
>> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
>> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
>> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
>> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
>> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
>> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
>> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Gene
 

This proboem may suggest a new setting that might be a good idea to add to NVDA.  While this problem is rare, it is rather inconvenient.  Therefore, I would suggest a setting to toggle automatically restarting NVDA after a crash off or on. 
 
there may be an add-on causing this problem but at some point, someone will probably have such a problem with nothing that can be done.  What appears to be happening is that NVDA is crashing, then automatically restarting.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2019 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA

You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what is causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
> I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
> Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
> however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
> Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
> continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
> the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
> on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
> for it? Thanks. Lou
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Lou Kolb <loukolb@...>
 

Quentin,

I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)

If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools
menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1). You
can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and the
previous nvda-old.log files are kept). More info on log files is at :
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out what is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com>
wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to
start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks Lou!

Gene,  While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good thing.  In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause.  If it happens for multiple users, even more so.



On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
Quentin,

I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)
>
> If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools
> menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).  You
> can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and the
> previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at :
> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps
>
> Regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
>> those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
>> primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
>> years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
>> situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
>> fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
>> Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.
>>
>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> > You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
>> > WINDOWS+R, then type:
>> >
>> > nvda -q
>> >
>> > and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what is
>> > causing the problem in any case.
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> > Quentin.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>> >>
>> >> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>> >>
>> >> In Administrator command prompt.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>> >> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
>> >> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
>> >> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
>> >> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>> >> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
>> >> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to
>> >> > start
>> >> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
>> >> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Quentin Christensen
>> > Training and Support Manager
>> >
>> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> >
>> > www.nvaccess.org
>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Lou Kolb <loukolb@...>
 

By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Thanks Lou!

Gene, While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good thing.
In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause. If it happens for multiple
users, even more so.



On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Quentin,

I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)

If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools
menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
You
can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and
the
previous nvda-old.log files are kept). More info on log files is at :
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out what
is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com>
wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to
start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known
fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




Quentin Christensen
 

Lou,

Assuming it is the official Eloquence synthesizer (the paid one), as long as you are on the latest version, you should be ok, but it would still be useful restarting NVDA without it running just to be sure.  Certainly many others use it and I haven't heard of this issue before.  If you are using an unofficial pirate add-on, it has caused a few problems and really is not stable at all (even aside from the legal and ethical issues of using an illegal add-on).

In any case, I'm keen to get to the bottom of it as clearly it would be an annoying issue.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 12:46 PM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Thanks Lou!
>
> Gene,  While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
> most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
> user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good thing.
> In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
> crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause.  If it happens for multiple
> users, even more so.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>
>> Quentin,
>>
>> I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
>> log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou
>>
>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> > Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)
>> >
>> > If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools
>> > menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
>> You
>> > can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and
>> the
>> > previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at :
>> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Quentin.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
>> >> those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
>> >> primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
>> >> years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
>> >> situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
>> >> fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
>> >> Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.
>> >>
>> >> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> >> > You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
>> >> > WINDOWS+R, then type:
>> >> >
>> >> > nvda -q
>> >> >
>> >> > and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what
>> >> > is
>> >> > causing the problem in any case.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kind regards
>> >> >
>> >> > Quentin.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In Administrator command prompt.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>> >> >> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
>> >> >> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
>> >> >> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>> >> >> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
>> >> >> > restart
>> >> >> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to
>> >> >> > start
>> >> >> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known
>> fix
>> >> >> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Quentin Christensen
>> >> > Training and Support Manager
>> >> >
>> >> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>> >> > available:
>> >> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> >> >
>> >> > www.nvaccess.org
>> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> >> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Quentin Christensen
>> > Training and Support Manager
>> >
>> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> >
>> > www.nvaccess.org
>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Sam Bushman
 

I am using the paid Elloquence add-on.

If there is anything I can do to help – please let me know and I can perform any tests you need.

Thanks,

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 8:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA

 

Lou,

 

Assuming it is the official Eloquence synthesizer (the paid one), as long as you are on the latest version, you should be ok, but it would still be useful restarting NVDA without it running just to be sure.  Certainly many others use it and I haven't heard of this issue before.  If you are using an unofficial pirate add-on, it has caused a few problems and really is not stable at all (even aside from the legal and ethical issues of using an illegal add-on).

 

In any case, I'm keen to get to the bottom of it as clearly it would be an annoying issue.

 

 

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 12:46 PM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:

By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Thanks Lou!
>
> Gene,  While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
> most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
> user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good thing.
> In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
> crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause.  If it happens for multiple
> users, even more so.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>
>> Quentin,
>>
>> I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
>> log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou
>>
>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> > Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)
>> >
>> > If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools
>> > menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
>> You
>> > can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and
>> the
>> > previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at :
>> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Quentin.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
>> >> those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
>> >> primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
>> >> years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
>> >> situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
>> >> fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
>> >> Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.
>> >>
>> >> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>> >> > You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
>> >> > WINDOWS+R, then type:
>> >> >
>> >> > nvda -q
>> >> >
>> >> > and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what
>> >> > is
>> >> > causing the problem in any case.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kind regards
>> >> >
>> >> > Quentin.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In Administrator command prompt.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>> >> >> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
>> >> >> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
>> >> >> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>> >> >> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
>> >> >> > restart
>> >> >> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to
>> >> >> > start
>> >> >> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known
>> fix
>> >> >> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Quentin Christensen
>> >> > Training and Support Manager
>> >> >
>> >> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>> >> > available:
>> >> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> >> >
>> >> > www.nvaccess.org
>> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> >> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Quentin Christensen
>> > Training and Support Manager
>> >
>> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>> >
>> > www.nvaccess.org
>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The last time I saw something very similar to this was when the pesky Avast got itself onto the system. I'm not sure to this day what the problem was, but I would find that nvda would just hang when you tried to terminate it. This might be a different issue as the poster said it made a sound which suggests to me that he might be running a development version of nvda, not a stable release.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2019 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA


You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out what is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com> wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well that depends on which version you have. the hacked one or the legal one, but normally it does not seem either way to stop nvda closing, its usually strange behaviour generally or just locking up with the dodgy version.

Another thought sprang into my mind. Could another user have done a system restore on the machine?
That can certainly cause all manner of confusion. The restarting of nvda being one of them!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Kolb" <loukolb@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA


By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Thanks Lou!

Gene, While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good thing.
In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause. If it happens for multiple
users, even more so.



On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Quentin,

I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)

If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's tools
menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
You
can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log and
the
previous nvda-old.log files are kept). More info on log files is at :
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out what
is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@gmail.com>
wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set to
start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any known
fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




Lou Kolb <loukolb@...>
 

Quentin,
I believe I'm running 2018.3.2 on that system , and I only update when
prompted to. Eloquence was bought from the AT guys, so should be
legitimate. As I mentioned, I won't be at that location until
Saturday, but I'll copy and send you the log then. FYI, I work at a
radio station here in Pennsylvania and the computer I'm running NVDA
on is used for accessing the net and recording and playing audio.
However, I have plans to try it on the computer that actually runs the
station, and a problem like this would be absolutely unacceptable on
that system. Thanks, again for all the help and suggestions. Lou



On 2/5/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Well that depends on which version you have. the hacked one or the legal
one, but normally it does not seem either way to stop nvda closing, its
usually strange behaviour generally or just locking up with the dodgy
version.

Another thought sprang into my mind. Could another user have done a system
restore on the machine?
That can certainly cause all manner of confusion. The restarting of nvda
being one of them!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Kolb" <loukolb@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA


By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Thanks Lou!

Gene, While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good
thing.
In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause. If it happens for
multiple
users, even more so.



On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Quentin,

I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)

If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's
tools
menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
You
can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log
and
the
previous nvda-old.log files are kept). More info on log files is at
:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as
my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again
press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out what
is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh
<anton.malykh@gmail.com>
wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and
a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At
work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set
to
start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any
known
fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








Quentin Christensen
 

Ok, if you bought Eloquence from the AT Guys it will certainly be the legitimate version.  The latest version of NVDA is 2018.4.1.  We recommend being on the latest version generally, but I'm not specifically aware of any issues relating to this.

Ok, I just had another look through our issues, and I did find one sounding very similar to yours, but the user was using Vocalizer rather than eloquence (though they come in the same bundle, so it could be related), and specifically, they had the speech viewer open.  In that case, closing the speech viewer stopped NVDA crashing.  Do you use speech viewer?



On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:56 PM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
Quentin,
I believe I'm running 2018.3.2 on that system , and I only update when
prompted to. Eloquence was bought from the AT guys, so should be
legitimate. As I mentioned, I won't be at that location until
Saturday, but I'll copy and send you the log then. FYI, I work at a
radio station here in Pennsylvania and the computer I'm running NVDA
on is used for accessing the net and recording and playing audio.
However, I have plans to try it on the computer that actually runs the
station, and a problem like this would be absolutely unacceptable on
that system. Thanks, again for all the help and suggestions. Lou



On 2/5/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
> Well that depends on which version you have. the hacked one or the legal
> one, but normally it does not seem either way to stop nvda closing, its
> usually strange behaviour generally or just locking up with the dodgy
> version.
>
> Another thought sprang into my mind. Could another user have done a system
> restore on the machine?
>  That can certainly cause all manner of confusion. The restarting of nvda
> being one of them!
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lou Kolb" <loukolb@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA
>
>
>> By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
>> cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
>> not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou
>>
>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>> Thanks Lou!
>>>
>>> Gene,  While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
>>> most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
>>> user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good
>>> thing.
>>> In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
>>> crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause.  If it happens for
>>> multiple
>>> users, even more so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quentin,
>>>>
>>>> I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
>>>> log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> > Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's
>>>> > tools
>>>> > menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
>>>> You
>>>> > can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log
>>>> > and
>>>> the
>>>> > previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at
>>>> > :
>>>> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> >
>>>> > Quentin.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
>>>> >> those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as
>>>> >> my
>>>> >> primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
>>>> >> years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
>>>> >> situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
>>>> >> fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
>>>> >> Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> >> > You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again
>>>> >> > press
>>>> >> > WINDOWS+R, then type:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > nvda -q
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what
>>>> >> > is
>>>> >> > causing the problem in any case.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Kind regards
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Quentin.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh
>>>> >> > <anton.malykh@...>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> In Administrator command prompt.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>>>> >> >> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and
>>>> >> >> > a
>>>> >> >> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At
>>>> >> >> > work,
>>>> >> >> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
>>>> >> >> > the
>>>> >> >> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>>>> >> >> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
>>>> >> >> > restart
>>>> >> >> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set
>>>> >> >> > to
>>>> >> >> > start
>>>> >> >> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any
>>>> >> >> > known
>>>> fix
>>>> >> >> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Quentin Christensen
>>>> >> > Training and Support Manager
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> >> > available:
>>>> >> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > www.nvaccess.org
>>>> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> >> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Quentin Christensen
>>>> > Training and Support Manager
>>>> >
>>>> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> > available:
>>>> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>> >
>>>> > www.nvaccess.org
>>>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Quentin Christensen
>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>
>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>
>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Sam Bushman
 

I have Version: 2018.4.1

I am using eloquence paid version – I have the speech viewer off and don’t have these issues.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA

 

Ok, if you bought Eloquence from the AT Guys it will certainly be the legitimate version.  The latest version of NVDA is 2018.4.1.  We recommend being on the latest version generally, but I'm not specifically aware of any issues relating to this.

 

Ok, I just had another look through our issues, and I did find one sounding very similar to yours, but the user was using Vocalizer rather than eloquence (though they come in the same bundle, so it could be related), and specifically, they had the speech viewer open.  In that case, closing the speech viewer stopped NVDA crashing.  Do you use speech viewer?

 

 

 

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:56 PM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:

Quentin,
I believe I'm running 2018.3.2 on that system , and I only update when
prompted to. Eloquence was bought from the AT guys, so should be
legitimate. As I mentioned, I won't be at that location until
Saturday, but I'll copy and send you the log then. FYI, I work at a
radio station here in Pennsylvania and the computer I'm running NVDA
on is used for accessing the net and recording and playing audio.
However, I have plans to try it on the computer that actually runs the
station, and a problem like this would be absolutely unacceptable on
that system. Thanks, again for all the help and suggestions. Lou



On 2/5/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
> Well that depends on which version you have. the hacked one or the legal
> one, but normally it does not seem either way to stop nvda closing, its
> usually strange behaviour generally or just locking up with the dodgy
> version.
>
> Another thought sprang into my mind. Could another user have done a system
> restore on the machine?
>  That can certainly cause all manner of confusion. The restarting of nvda
> being one of them!
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lou Kolb" <loukolb@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA
>
>
>> By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
>> cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
>> not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou
>>
>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>> Thanks Lou!
>>>
>>> Gene,  While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
>>> most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
>>> user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good
>>> thing.
>>> In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
>>> crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause.  If it happens for
>>> multiple
>>> users, even more so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quentin,
>>>>
>>>> I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
>>>> log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> > Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's
>>>> > tools
>>>> > menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
>>>> You
>>>> > can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log
>>>> > and
>>>> the
>>>> > previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at
>>>> > :
>>>> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> >
>>>> > Quentin.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
>>>> >> those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as
>>>> >> my
>>>> >> primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
>>>> >> years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
>>>> >> situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
>>>> >> fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
>>>> >> Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> >> > You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again
>>>> >> > press
>>>> >> > WINDOWS+R, then type:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > nvda -q
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what
>>>> >> > is
>>>> >> > causing the problem in any case.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Kind regards
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Quentin.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh
>>>> >> > <anton.malykh@...>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> In Administrator command prompt.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>>>> >> >> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and
>>>> >> >> > a
>>>> >> >> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At
>>>> >> >> > work,
>>>> >> >> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
>>>> >> >> > the
>>>> >> >> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>>>> >> >> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
>>>> >> >> > restart
>>>> >> >> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set
>>>> >> >> > to
>>>> >> >> > start
>>>> >> >> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any
>>>> >> >> > known
>>>> fix
>>>> >> >> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Quentin Christensen
>>>> >> > Training and Support Manager
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> >> > available:
>>>> >> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > www.nvaccess.org
>>>> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> >> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Quentin Christensen
>>>> > Training and Support Manager
>>>> >
>>>> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> > available:
>>>> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>> >
>>>> > www.nvaccess.org
>>>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Quentin Christensen
>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>
>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>
>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Lou Kolb <loukolb@...>
 

If I recall, speech viewer is a way to show on the screen what the
synth is speaking and, no, I don't use it. But I'll certainly check to
make sure it hasn't been inadvertently turned on. I do know I've
installed several updates with no change in this behavior. I used to
run Vocalizer on this machine with no issues. I can't recall whether
it started before or after I started using eloquence. Lou

On 2/5/19, Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@gmail.com> wrote:
I have Version: 2018.4.1

I am using eloquence paid version – I have the speech viewer off and don’t
have these issues.





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin
Christensen
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA



Ok, if you bought Eloquence from the AT Guys it will certainly be the
legitimate version. The latest version of NVDA is 2018.4.1. We recommend
being on the latest version generally, but I'm not specifically aware of any
issues relating to this.



Ok, I just had another look through our issues, and I did find one sounding
very similar to yours, but the user was using Vocalizer rather than
eloquence (though they come in the same bundle, so it could be related), and
specifically, they had the speech viewer open. In that case, closing the
speech viewer stopped NVDA crashing. Do you use speech viewer?







On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:56 PM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com
<mailto:loukolb@gmail.com> > wrote:

Quentin,
I believe I'm running 2018.3.2 on that system , and I only update when
prompted to. Eloquence was bought from the AT guys, so should be
legitimate. As I mentioned, I won't be at that location until
Saturday, but I'll copy and send you the log then. FYI, I work at a
radio station here in Pennsylvania and the computer I'm running NVDA
on is used for accessing the net and recording and playing audio.
However, I have plans to try it on the computer that actually runs the
station, and a problem like this would be absolutely unacceptable on
that system. Thanks, again for all the help and suggestions. Lou



On 2/5/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io <mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> >
wrote:
Well that depends on which version you have. the hacked one or the legal
one, but normally it does not seem either way to stop nvda closing, its
usually strange behaviour generally or just locking up with the dodgy
version.

Another thought sprang into my mind. Could another user have done a
system
restore on the machine?
That can certainly cause all manner of confusion. The restarting of nvda
being one of them!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> , putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Kolb" <loukolb@gmail.com <mailto:loukolb@gmail.com> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA


By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org
<mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org> > wrote:
Thanks Lou!

Gene, While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when
the
user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good
thing.
In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause. If it happens for
multiple
users, even more so.



On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com
<mailto:loukolb@gmail.com> > wrote:

Quentin,

I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org
<mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org> > wrote:
Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)

If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's
tools
menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing
NVDA+F1).
You
can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log
and
the
previous nvda-old.log files are kept). More info on log files is at
:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@gmail.com
<mailto:loukolb@gmail.com> > wrote:

Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as
my
primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.

On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org
<mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org> > wrote:
You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again
press
WINDOWS+R, then type:

nvda -q

and press ENTER. I would be interested in trying to work out
what
is
causing the problem in any case.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh
<anton.malykh@gmail.com <mailto:anton.malykh@gmail.com> >
wrote:

As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:

taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe

In Administrator command prompt.


On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and
a
Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At
work,
however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I
get
the
Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
restart
the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set
to
start
on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any
known
fix
for it? Thanks. Lou




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess















--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







Quentin Christensen
 

Sam, if you could please test, if you turn speech viewer on (NVDA+n, then T, then down arrow once to speech viewer and enter), then try to bring up NVDA's exit dialog (NVDA+q) does it come up ok, or does NVDA crash and restart?


On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 10:22 AM Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@...> wrote:

I have Version: 2018.4.1

I am using eloquence paid version – I have the speech viewer off and don’t have these issues.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA

 

Ok, if you bought Eloquence from the AT Guys it will certainly be the legitimate version.  The latest version of NVDA is 2018.4.1.  We recommend being on the latest version generally, but I'm not specifically aware of any issues relating to this.

 

Ok, I just had another look through our issues, and I did find one sounding very similar to yours, but the user was using Vocalizer rather than eloquence (though they come in the same bundle, so it could be related), and specifically, they had the speech viewer open.  In that case, closing the speech viewer stopped NVDA crashing.  Do you use speech viewer?

 

 

 

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:56 PM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:

Quentin,
I believe I'm running 2018.3.2 on that system , and I only update when
prompted to. Eloquence was bought from the AT guys, so should be
legitimate. As I mentioned, I won't be at that location until
Saturday, but I'll copy and send you the log then. FYI, I work at a
radio station here in Pennsylvania and the computer I'm running NVDA
on is used for accessing the net and recording and playing audio.
However, I have plans to try it on the computer that actually runs the
station, and a problem like this would be absolutely unacceptable on
that system. Thanks, again for all the help and suggestions. Lou



On 2/5/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
> Well that depends on which version you have. the hacked one or the legal
> one, but normally it does not seem either way to stop nvda closing, its
> usually strange behaviour generally or just locking up with the dodgy
> version.
>
> Another thought sprang into my mind. Could another user have done a system
> restore on the machine?
>  That can certainly cause all manner of confusion. The restarting of nvda
> being one of them!
>  Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lou Kolb" <loukolb@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] trouble closing NVDA
>
>
>> By the way, the only add-on I'm aware of using is the Elloquence
>> cynth, but I think I had that problem before I installed it. And, I'm
>> not certain that that is an add-on anyway. Lou
>>
>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>> Thanks Lou!
>>>
>>> Gene,  While such a setting might be useful in this particular case, in
>>> most cases, where the crash is unexpected, it's not necessarily when the
>>> user is trying to exit NVDA, and in that case, restarting is a good
>>> thing.
>>> In a case like this, I'd really like to get to the bottom of why it is
>>> crashing and ideally fix the underlying cause.  If it happens for
>>> multiple
>>> users, even more so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quentin,
>>>>
>>>> I won't be working again until Saturday, but I'll have a look at the
>>>> log then and send it to you, as well. Many thanks. Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> > Sorry Lou, I should have specified that :)
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have NVDA running, you can open the log either from NVDA's
>>>> > tools
>>>> > menu (NVDA+n, then T, the ENTER to view log, or by pressing NVDA+F1).
>>>> You
>>>> > can also find it in the %temp% directory (both the current nvda.log
>>>> > and
>>>> the
>>>> > previous nvda-old.log files are kept).  More info on log files is at
>>>> > :
>>>> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> >
>>>> > Quentin.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:55 AM Lou Kolb <loukolb@...> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Thanks, all, for the very helpful information. I'll certainly try
>>>> >> those line commands. I should mention that I generally use Jaws as
>>>> >> my
>>>> >> primary screen reader, mainly because I've used it for nearly 20
>>>> >> years. But I find I'm using NVDA more often now, especially in
>>>> >> situations where I don't want to get tangled in their licensing. In
>>>> >> fact, I do find that NVDA works better in some cases
>>>> >> Quentin, where do I find the NVDA log? Lou.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2/4/19, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> >> > You can also quit NVDA with another comand-line switch - again
>>>> >> > press
>>>> >> > WINDOWS+R, then type:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > nvda -q
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > and press ENTER.  I would be interested in trying to work out what
>>>> >> > is
>>>> >> > causing the problem in any case.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Kind regards
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Quentin.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:36 AM Tony Malykh
>>>> >> > <anton.malykh@...>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> As a workaround, you can kill NVDA by typing this command:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> taskkill /f /im NVDA.exe
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> In Administrator command prompt.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 2/4/2019 11:23 AM, Lou Kolb wrote:
>>>> >> >> > I'm using NVDA on 2 computers, a Windows 10 laptop at home and
>>>> >> >> > a
>>>> >> >> > Windows 10 desktop at work. At home, I have no problems. At
>>>> >> >> > work,
>>>> >> >> > however, NVDA will not close properly. I hit insert+q and I get
>>>> >> >> > the
>>>> >> >> > Windows error sound and then the startup sound for NVDA and it
>>>> >> >> > continues to run. The only way I've found to close it is to
>>>> >> >> > restart
>>>> >> >> > the computer. It's a shared machine, so I don't have NVDA set
>>>> >> >> > to
>>>> >> >> > start
>>>> >> >> > on boot-up. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there any
>>>> >> >> > known
>>>> fix
>>>> >> >> > for it? Thanks. Lou
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Quentin Christensen
>>>> >> > Training and Support Manager
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> >> > available:
>>>> >> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > www.nvaccess.org
>>>> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> >> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Quentin Christensen
>>>> > Training and Support Manager
>>>> >
>>>> > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> > available:
>>>> > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>> >
>>>> > www.nvaccess.org
>>>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> > Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Quentin Christensen
>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>
>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>
>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess