Topics

NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list


Adriani Botez
 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


molly the blind tech lover
 

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


Devin Prater
 

I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


molly the blind tech lover
 

What’s your favorite email app 😊

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


Adriani Botez
 

While you are in a message window, press ctrl+fullstop or ctrl+ Komma and zou can move between next and previous message without closing the message window. Unfortunatelz NVDA does not report that zou switch between messages but the focus gos to the next or previous message.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Devin Prater
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Februar 2019 22:52
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

I use the regular email from the websites. I don't seem to have a problem with that most of the time.
WHen I'm not using this email address I'm using Yahoo's email.


molly the blind tech lover
 

Cool 😀

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Shook
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

I use the regular email from the websites. I don't seem to have a problem with that most of the time.
WHen I'm not using this email address I'm using Yahoo's email.


Tony Malykh
 

I totally agree - threaded view in Outlook seems to be impossible to navigate with a screenreader. I'm curious, what email program do you use instead? I personally switched to Thunderbird because of threaded view, but I was curious if there are any other email clients worth trying.

--Tony


On 2/12/2019 1:51 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi,

 

JAWS does echo this action when you press control+, or control+full stop!

 

However, I have never looked for this feature in Outlook which is my only client for email messages and has been so since my first shot at Windows computing!

 

I prefer to work down the list of messages in the Inbox and read the titles to see if I want to read more on the subject of the message. If not, I press the delete key and NVDA reads the subject of the next message. If I do want to read the message a simple press of the enter key brings me in and one press of the escape key brings me back out to the list where I either press Delete to kill the message or down-arrow to move on to the next one. I could not do these actions if I streamed each message without going back to the message list between messages.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 12:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

I totally agree - threaded view in Outlook seems to be impossible to navigate with a screenreader. I'm curious, what email program do you use instead? I personally switched to Thunderbird because of threaded view, but I was curious if there are any other email clients worth trying.

--Tony

 

On 2/12/2019 1:51 PM, Devin Prater wrote:

I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

Dear all,

 

I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.

 

Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 


Devin Prater
 

Molly, my favorite is Apple Mail on the Mac. I can “interact” with the table of coloumns of mail headers, from, to, subject, date ETC. In there, I can move right to “subject”, and move down the messages only hearing subject, which is what I do. I can select in this way, and hear only subject as I’m selecting.

Aditionally, when in conversations, all I have to do to get to the next message in the conversation is stop interacting, and press VOICEOVER+Right arrow to move to the next messages after the one I’m on. It makes reading mail a joy, and something I’ve never found in Windows mail clients.

On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:56 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

What’s your favorite email app 😊
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list
 

I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list
 
Dear all,
 
I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.
 
Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.
 
Best
Adriani
 
 



Gene
 

You can do such things with a Windows program, you would set them up in a different way.  I want to hear who a message is from and the subject so I've never tried to only hear the subject alone.  You can set the order of fields in the program.  If I had the subject line first, I could down arrow from message to message and hear the subject.  Then, I could down arrow again to hear the next subject.  If I had the person sending the message set as the next header, I could let the reading continue to hear the name and then down arrow to the next message.  I don't read mail by conversation but I'm confident someone can explain how to do the same thing as you do.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

Molly, my favorite is Apple Mail on the Mac. I can “interact” with the table of coloumns of mail headers, from, to, subject, date ETC. In there, I can move right to “subject”, and move down the messages only hearing subject, which is what I do. I can select in this way, and hear only subject as I’m selecting.

Aditionally, when in conversations, all I have to do to get to the next message in the conversation is stop interacting, and press VOICEOVER+Right arrow to move to the next messages after the one I’m on. It makes reading mail a joy, and something I’ve never found in Windows mail clients.

On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:56 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

What’s your favorite email app 😊
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list
 

I wish I could love Outlook, I really do, but I've not found an efficient way of handling threaded emails yet at all. I mean, going from one email in a thread to another without having to go back into the inbox and choose the next message..  


On Feb 12, 2019, at 3:43 PM, molly the blind tech lover <brainardmolly@...> wrote:

I totally use outlook. I love it 😀
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 4:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list
 
Dear all,
 
I was reading a discussion here in this forum where a jaws user complained that in NVDA you cannot filter columns in Outlook’s message list. Well, this is actually not true. This is not a screen reader setting, it is an outlook setting. If you go to view ribbon and then to advanced view settings and then to columns, you can add, remove and reorder columns as you like. You can remove the column which reports attachment, you can remove the cathegory column, the subject column etc.
 
Actually I can work with NVDA in a very efficient way just by using outlook’s settings efficiently. And this is the most important thing. A screen reader can be very efficient if you know the program you are working with and if you know all the settings that makes your live easier.
 
Best
Adriani
 
 



 

Cearbhall,

          It's not clear from what you've said whether you know this or not, but if, when you're actually reading a message, you can delete it from within the reading window with CTRL+D and you will still then be thrown back out to your message list on to the message or conversation which immediately followed it.

          This could save you a step.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


 

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 07:36 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
threaded view in Outlook seems to be impossible to navigate with a screenreader.
In what way?   I teach my clients to use the threaded view in any e-mail client, including Outlook.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Devin Prater
 

With Jaws, it works great, but not with NVDA.

On Feb 13, 2019, at 9:09 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 07:36 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:
threaded view in Outlook seems to be impossible to navigate with a screenreader.
In what way?   I teach my clients to use the threaded view in any e-mail client, including Outlook.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 
 


 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 10:11 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
With Jaws, it works great, but not with NVDA.
Again, in what way?   It's impossible to make suggestions of any kind when assertions are not specific as to what you can do with one that you cannot do with the other.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Tony Malykh
 

Here is the list of my complaints about threaded view in Outlook. I would be glad if you could teach me how to use it properly.


1. Biggest complaint. In threaded view when you press up arrow and then down arrow, the cursor often times would go back to the original position. After some sighted assistance I figured out that it seems to be intentionally skipping over some emails, that are visually displayed in different tone (I think lighter) and Outlook probably thinks they are not ads important when you arrow down through them, but not if you arrow up. Which makes this view ridiculously confusing to me. Because I alwayss assume that up and down arrows are the opposites of each other. But Outlook is trying to be smarter here, I would call it too smart. So, is there a way to make up and down arrows to work as expected, e.g. cancel out each other?

2. Is there a way to know what level in the tree view you're currently at? So far I have to guess based on the title and the author of the email.


I think if I could have these two questions answered, I would take my words back about threaded view in outlook being unusable.

Best

Tony


On 2/13/2019 7:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 10:11 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
With Jaws, it works great, but not with NVDA.
Again, in what way?   It's impossible to make suggestions of any kind when assertions are not specific as to what you can do with one that you cannot do with the other.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Tony Malykh
 

Sorry for a typo, I meant:

In threaded view when you press up arrow and then down arrow, the cursor often times would not go back to the original position.

--Tony



On 2/13/2019 12:14 PM, Tony Malykh via Groups.Io wrote:

Here is the list of my complaints about threaded view in Outlook. I would be glad if you could teach me how to use it properly.


1. Biggest complaint. In threaded view when you press up arrow and then down arrow, the cursor often times would go back to the original position. After some sighted assistance I figured out that it seems to be intentionally skipping over some emails, that are visually displayed in different tone (I think lighter) and Outlook probably thinks they are not ads important when you arrow down through them, but not if you arrow up. Which makes this view ridiculously confusing to me. Because I alwayss assume that up and down arrows are the opposites of each other. But Outlook is trying to be smarter here, I would call it too smart. So, is there a way to make up and down arrows to work as expected, e.g. cancel out each other?

2. Is there a way to know what level in the tree view you're currently at? So far I have to guess based on the title and the author of the email.


I think if I could have these two questions answered, I would take my words back about threaded view in outlook being unusable.

Best

Tony


On 2/13/2019 7:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 10:11 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
With Jaws, it works great, but not with NVDA.
Again, in what way?   It's impossible to make suggestions of any kind when assertions are not specific as to what you can do with one that you cannot do with the other.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


 

Tony,

           Please let me know what version of Outlook.  I have Outlook 2016, and though most of this sort of basic navigation has been the same "since dirt" it's still helpful to know if we're both looking at exactly the same Outlook version or not.
 
            I'll do some noodling around and get back to you after I have the version.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


 

Tony,

            In regard to your biggest complaint, I may have an answer, or something that can help.  Outlook 2016, in default mode, has a 2-step expand for a conversation when it's collapsed, and it's meant to be a convenience but I can see how it might not be.  If you're on a collapsed conversation and right arrow once to expand it, the first level expansion will only show messages in the conversation that originated from a sender or senders other than you.  Your own responses are not included in level one expansion.  If you hit right arrow twice, the conversation is fully expanded with your own responses (which are actually in the Sent folder) shown embedded in their correct place(s) in the conversation.  In level two (full) expansion up and down arrows behave as you think they should.

             You may also find that tweaking the Conversation Settings may get you the results you wish, but I'm not sure what combination would suit you best.  That's for you to play with.  To change conversation view:
  1. ALT+V,CS   (View Ribbon, Conversation Settings)
  2. There are 4 options under here, each of which is a toggle, and I'll give the letter you'd hit to change the state (and the default state):
                    S Show messages from other folders [and see my note above about level 2 expansion]   Default:  ON
                    A Show senders above the subject     Default:  ON
                    X Always expand selected conversation    Default OFF    Note well - it's a selected conversation, not one you happen to be arrowing up or down over
                    I  Use classic indented view



--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

Can you explain that?  I can’t get conversation view to work well in either screen reader.  I expand a thread, and then see all of the messages in that thread.  I can’t then close the thread.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: 13 February 2019 15:11
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and outlook, discussion about columns in message list

 

With Jaws, it works great, but not with NVDA.



On Feb 13, 2019, at 9:09 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 07:36 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:

threaded view in Outlook seems to be impossible to navigate with a screenreader.

In what way?   I teach my clients to use the threaded view in any e-mail client, including Outlook.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back