Topics

Graphics that contain links


Peter Beasley
 

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Gene
 

Can you give an example of a site?  How does NVdA read these links.  What should people look for when looking at the page?
 
It is important to give a page, if possible, when asking about an accessibility problem where a page doesn't work as expected.
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:00 AM
Subject: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

When I encounter one of these links, I've generally had no trouble activating them in the usual way.  Either use the enter key (if moving via arrows), or use the NVDA-numpad enter key to activate them.  Depending on how they're coded, the normal enter key works, if they're javascript, then NVDA-NUMPAD enter usually does the trick.  There are a few cases where this doesn't work either, and in those cases, I just move on to something else, because it's more effort than it's worth to fuss with it to make it work.  I'm very much a least effort type person, if it's too much work, I'll ignore it and get the information elsewhere.

On 2/15/2019 6:00 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Aravind R
 

apart from enter and insert+enter, we can try control+enter and left
click by routing mouse cursor to PC then pressing numberpad minus. Our
bank's e learning module wont allow me to succeed with any off these
technique. then we switch off brouse mode by using insert+space then
activate links using tab. even after these, some pages inside our bank
wont work in such cases, i have to ask sited colligues help.

On 2/15/19, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...> wrote:
When I encounter one of these links, I've generally had no trouble
activating them in the usual way.  Either use the enter key (if moving
via arrows), or use the NVDA-numpad enter key to activate them.
Depending on how they're coded, the normal enter key works, if they're
javascript, then NVDA-NUMPAD enter usually does the trick.  There are a
few cases where this doesn't work either, and in those cases, I just
move on to something else, because it's more effort than it's worth to
fuss with it to make it work.  I'm very much a least effort type person,
if it's too much work, I'll ignore it and get the information elsewhere.

On 2/15/2019 6:00 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do
you activate these links using NVDA               ?

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10






--
--
nothing is difficult unless you make it appear so.

r. aravind,

Assistant manager
Department of sales
bank of baroda specialised mortgage store, Chennai.
mobile no: +91 9940369593,
email id : aravind_069@..., aravind.andhrabank@....
aravind.rajendran@....


 

Speaking for myself, I'm going to echo Gene's earlier sentiments.  It really helps if you can give the URL to a page that exhibits the object in question and direct someone to said object.

I have been, how shall I put it nicely, complaining bitterly for a while now that it's becoming commonplace to mask links visually as if they were buttons.  They still activate the same way, but if you're a sighted person trying to direct someone who's blind to something on a page, and it looks like a button, you'll probably have them use button quick navigation to get there if you don't have them use screen reader search.  It's maddening when "a button (visually) is not a button (actually)."

These seem to activate just like any other link, though, in the vast majority of cases.  Once you've got focus, activate 'em by your method of choice.

As with all things accessibility, I'm sure there are exceptions, and those are the interesting cases to dig in to.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Peter Beasley
 

                That doesn’t work for me.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Travis Siegel
Sent: 15 February 2019 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

When I encounter one of these links, I've generally had no trouble activating them in the usual way.  Either use the enter key (if moving via arrows), or use the NVDA-numpad enter key to activate them.  Depending on how they're coded, the normal enter key works, if they're javascript, then NVDA-NUMPAD enter usually does the trick.  There are a few cases where this doesn't work either, and in those cases, I just move on to something else, because it's more effort than it's worth to fuss with it to make it work.  I'm very much a least effort type person, if it's too much work, I'll ignore it and get the information elsewhere.

On 2/15/2019 6:00 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


 

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 12:57 PM, Peter Beasley wrote:
That doesn’t work for me.
And until or unless you can provide an example site for everyone to noodle with, you'll get no definitive answer.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Peter Beasley
 

                                It is a petition site called 38 degrees. It used to be ok but for the last cuple of months or so, when you go to the link to sign the petitiom it says graphic wrecked angle contains links.,

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: 15 February 2019 12:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

Can you give an example of a site?  How does NVdA read these links.  What should people look for when looking at the page?

 

It is important to give a page, if possible, when asking about an accessibility problem where a page doesn't work as expected.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:00 AM

Subject: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


greg@...
 

Brian,

Here's an example:  http://www.photographyoptions.net/images/degray/tour.html.  When you land on the page, the up and down arrows should enable you to navigate up and down a combobox menu.  If you select the "Visitor Center" option you will be at the first of a series of 10 or so panoramic images of the Visitor Center.  There is a youtube link in the first "Visitor Center" panorama. Is there a way to find it with NVDA? I have a tooltip associated with each of the 10 panoramas, but forgetting the youtube link inside the first one, I can't figure out if it there is a keystroke scheme to move through the 10 panoramas, and then, back to the combobox menu.
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


Gene
 

I may have seen this discussed on a list, I don't remember which one, before.  But are you discussing a link in an e-mail message you are trying to follow or a link on a page?  It is important to be precise in such matters.  If this is the same site I saw discussed before, the site is accessible, but the e-mail links aren't, or may not be.  I don't think any solution was given to work with such images.
 
I may have an idea of how you can find the page, so if you send us the text describing the petition you want to get to, I can see if the idea works.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

                                It is a petition site called 38 degrees. It used to be ok but for the last cuple of months or so, when you go to the link to sign the petitiom it says graphic wrecked angle contains links.,

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: 15 February 2019 12:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

Can you give an example of a site?  How does NVdA read these links.  What should people look for when looking at the page?

 

It is important to give a page, if possible, when asking about an accessibility problem where a page doesn't work as expected.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 5:00 AM

Subject: [nvda] Graphics that contain links

 

A number of sites are now using graphics that  contain links. How do you activate these links using NVDA               ?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


greg@...
 

OK, www.photographyoptions.com is a better example.  I have learned that after the page has loaded, you can use the down / up arrow alternating with a single mouse click anywhere on the page to move up and down a series of thumbnail graphics, with the tooltip for each one being announced.  First one is "The Cal Ripken Experience - which is a baseball complex in Pigeon Forge, TN - so my tooltip here is inadequate," 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are "Wear Farm Park."  Each of these four panoramas has buttons inside that provide an alternate way to navigate to the previous or next panorama.  The buttons have the exact same tooltip as the corresponding thumbnail graphic.  What confuses me is that in odd instances, when I first land on the page the focus goes fairly quickly to a combobox and NVDA starts announcing that list which is selectable. Then, once you select an item to get to the thumbnail graphics, you can use the down/up arrow in combination with one or sometimes two mouse clicks to move from graphic to graphic.  Would alternating mouse clicks with down/up arrow be off-putting to most NVDA end users?  What Travis Siegel has said about "moving on" if the process becomes too difficult comes to mind here.
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


 

Greg,

             I will play with this later in detail, but in looking at it this morning I can see why it would be an accessibility nightmare from a couple of angles, some of them not really easily solved.  The site is dealing with 360 degree or 180 degree continuously rotating panorama images and placing hotspots over specific areas of the images for closer examination (in the Cal Ripkin Park example) and the whole design is directly, not indirectly, aimed at using vision as the primary (I'd say almost sole) sensory apprehension method.   Others, like the Marietta Georgia parks are structured differently, but the way to understand the site is through what you're seeing more than anything else.

              This is the first, and only, site of its type that I've encountered.

              It should, however, be easy enough to add either ALT Text or some sort of descriptive text, possibly via help, that could be announced when hotspots are made visible.  But since the images on the main pages are constantly moving the hotspots pop up and disappear as parts of the image come in to or move out of the center of the screen.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


greg@...
 

Wow Brian! Thanks for looking at the Marietta tour....because the hotpspots in that one are clickable text boxes with detailed information about each park.  The single combobox in that one lists something like 30 parks.  If you were able to find the combobox first, clicking  each item in the list would take you to the first image in each of 30 parks.  All of those have the text boxes with more complete information about the park.  It still isn't clear to me if you have figured out a way to get into those text boxes once the focus is on the first pano in every park.  If there is a way, I would be grateful to learn how you do it.   Then, the next problem would be about how to return the focus to the other thumb graphics associated with each park, and again, how to return to the combobox list so that you can go back and forth to get a quick overview of the infrastructure that exists in each park.  As a courtesy to the rest of the forum here is the Marietta tour link:  http://www.photographyoptions.net/images/marietta/tour.html.  I am grateful for the generous feedback and the time that many members of the forum have taken to look at this stuff and try to help me out.

Best regards, Greg
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


greg@...
 
Edited

I need to clarify about the text boxes.  Some of the panoramas within any given park have text boxes that can be clicked to reserve / rent the focal point of the panorama.  Most of the time this focal point would be something likes a picnic pavilion, a campsite or some other space that can be rented.  Also, in a few of the panoramas, there are also hotspots that will launch a subordinate still images gallery in a lightbox that superimposes over the panorama and presumably takes the focus away from the panorama.  Those, in turn, have their own set of thumbnail graphics to navigate.  For right now, it would seem like progress to be able to get into and out off all of the opening panoramas and have access to the park description text boxes.
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Wouldn't image maps handle this sort of thing? I was under the impression that they wer invented for this kind of thing.  I know they're generally used by text based browsers such as lynx to get access to sites that are primarily graphical, but it should be a simple matter to build one, and link to it for screen reader users.  You could even provide alternate links for the image maps to offer additional information about each image as it were.

On 2/17/2019 11:23 AM, greg@... wrote:
I need to clarify about the text boxes.  Some of the thumb graphics within any given park are text boxes that can be clicked to reserve /rent the focal point of the panorama.  Most of the time this focal point would be something likes a picnic pavilion, a campsite or some other space that can be rented.  Also, in a few of the panoramas, there are also hotspots that will launch a subordinae still images gallery in a lightbox that superimposes over the panorama and presumably takes the focus away from the panorama.  Those, in turn, have their own set of thumbnail graphics to navigate.  For right now, it would seem like progress to be able to get into and out off all of the opening panoramas and have access to the park description text boxes.
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

Greg,

            I wanted to report back that the photographyoptions.com site appears to be entirely inaccessible to NVDA in any meaningful sense.  I get no feedback from mouse tracking even when over the fixed elements at the right side of the screen, e.g., Close YouTube Window button, Toggle Hotspots button, etc.

            The hotspots themselves give no feedback of any type when they appear and you mouse over them, though I can, of course, see the identifying text of the thing the hotspot is trying to highlight, but there is no screen reader feedback for same.

             As I said earlier, this site is essentially almost entirely visually driven in nature.  The image being used is a 360 degree panorama that's constantly in motion until or unless you activate a hotspot.  It can be made to pause briefly if you play with some of the controls, but it is a brief pause, not a permanent one.

             I can see why this sort of sight could have huge appeal, particularly marketing appeal, for the sighted user but I can't even begin to conceive of it being made to be easily accessible for a blind user just because of the constantly moving target nature of the presentation.  I'd be far more inclined, were I trying to have accessibility to the information available, to create a separate, static site where the various hotspots that are facilities within a park would be implemented as standard links or buttons.

             This is a case where the medium is absolutely, positively, directly targeted at vision in its form of presentation, and even trying to shoehorn that in to some perverse sort of accessibility would be, in my opinion, insane.  It would be the equivalent of trying to make a movie accessible (which I'm well aware of what is done, but as someone who sees I can tell you what is done is in no way equivalent to being able to literally see a movie - it is a very pale approximation - there are no substitutes for sight when it comes to literally seeing, just as there is no substitute for the ability to hear when it comes to fully appreciating music).  At least for something like this the visual aspect is, in reality, a very catchy gimmick to draw in folks who can see and get them to interact with the site, which it does admirably.  It only makes sense to me to make this information equally accessible to a blind or visually impaired user by changing the presentation mechanism to something that can already be easily navigated using a conventionally formatted website.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


greg@...
 

Dang Brian, thank you for this very thoughtful reply.....and thank you for taking the time to pore over the site!  It has been bewildering to compare the gentle and patient guidance that I have received in this forum when it is compared to the stark "cold shoulder" that this content is often given by many State and Municipal governments that I try to do business with.  In other words, if the IT team at one of these entities does some kind of cursory accessibility test without actually using a screen reader....and sees that they can't use the tab key to move from element to element, the possibility of continuing to talk to that potential customer is often quashed.  I recognize that many of these government entities have their own graphics content providers and that the accessibility issue is often used as a convenient "objection" in the sales process.  Still I am committed to prioritizing steps for making this type of content more accessible. 

If you will agree that impatience might probably be a universal trait "afflicting" anybody who surfs the web, I wonder what would be most important to quickly glean by a visually impaired person using a screen reader to try and navigate through this content. I will give some thought to how ask the right questions and then start a new thread.  I am grateful for you an all of the people in this forum who have been willing to try and help me!

Cheers, Greg
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


greg@...
 

Travis, what is an image map and what does it do?
--
Greg Hosler

www.photographyoptions.com

Greg@...

865-774-9755


 

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 02:40 PM, <greg@...> wrote:
I wonder what would be most important to quickly glean by a visually impaired person using a screen reader to try and navigate through this content.
Greg,

            If by "this content" you're referring to the photographyoptions website, I honestly don't think there is one, at least not at present.  I am sure that some method could be come up with to allow screen readers to deal with moving targets and the like, but, personally, that seems to me to be a waste of time as it would still likely be terribly difficult to deal with for a blind end user.  There is no information that is shown on that site that could not be rearranged, and very easily, in a standard hierarchy of links, not unlike what you're used to dealing with in File Explorer when traversing the Folder/File tree.

            Were I asked to make this site accessible, that would actually be my approach, and placing a hidden link much like the common "Skip to Content" link that would say something like "Skip to screen reader accessible version of the site," instead.

             To my mind accessibility is about access to information, and in the specific case of that site, and its presentation idiom, trying to make the idiom accessible would more than likely end badly, while creating its equivalent database of information, in correctly arranged and accessible by existing means form, is a better use of time and effort.  I think that in all my years of dealing with screen readers and web acc 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


 

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 02:49 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I think that in all my years of dealing with screen readers and web 
[oops, accidentally hit the post button] . . . web accessibility this is the first and only time I have even had the thought that "separate but equal" in terms of data presented was the best option, but for this I do.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back