using win 7 after january 2020


Monte Single
 

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 


Ian Blackburn
 

You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP
But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier
That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation


On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 


Chris
 

I think the lack of updates after 2020 are probably the least of your worries if you are currently not using any type of antivirus program

 

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: 11 March 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

 

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for those who use third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@sasktel.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte






 

i use windows xp and love it very much, except some of its limitations.
but i dont trust any antivirus programs and never use them!

On 3/11/19, Chris via Groups.Io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think the lack of updates after 2020 are probably the least of your
worries if you are currently not using any type of antivirus program


From: Monte Single
Sent: 11 March 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.
I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;
---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,
---an accessible antivirus and malware program.
What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?
Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?
Thanks,
Monte






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

brian.
fortunately thanks God, i dont have issue using different websites
with firefox 52 except github which i wish to follow nvda changes,
edit my previous comments or reply comments of other people.
you always mention slowness of using web pages, but i dont have such
issues when disabling javascript!
when javascript be enabled for me, no difference between xp or 7 for
me, even seven was worse!
and even in xp, i experience sometimes 15 or 20 minutes that my system
is unusable and brows mode does not work, even sometimes i cant use
AltTab and go to another windows or programs.
this problem occur mostly when i use quora website which is unusable
without javascript.
can you please help me what should i do in this regard to overcome
problems and issues using such websites like quora with javascript?
thanks again, God bless you!

On 3/11/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on
Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support
for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never
had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and
often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much
the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack
to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck
of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of
years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it
will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda
version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months
issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates
change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for those who use
third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@sasktel.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if
some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win
7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7
after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte










--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Monte Single
 

Thanks for your response.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: March-11-19 3:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on
Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support
for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never
had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and
often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much
the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack
to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck
of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of
years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it
will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda
version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months
issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates
change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for those who use
third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@sasktel.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7
after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte







ADRIAN POCOCK
 

On 11/03/2019 09:39, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.I wrote:
I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for  those who use third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte












 

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.




On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:
You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP
But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier
That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation


On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well it is true that some anti virus solutions use techniques borrowed from malware to make themselves extremely hard to corrupt or remove, because of course they become a legitimate target for malware themselves. however there are limits to what I'd accept, and Avast has crossed this line for me, being unusable in nvda and almost unremovable even with its own uninstaller and corrupting something when it is removed.
However if you have an Intel based pc, MSSE will still work with the older version of nvda and is still updating here at any rate on windows 7 and XP and OK with nvda. With a bit of effort Superantispyware works well in the free version though some object and screen navigation is required at times for nvda to run correctly, and there seems no way to tick the box for unwanted software like rogue toolbars that nvda can see.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


i use windows xp and love it very much, except some of its limitations.
but i dont trust any antivirus programs and never use them!

On 3/11/19, Chris via Groups.Io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think the lack of updates after 2020 are probably the least of your
worries if you are currently not using any type of antivirus program


From: Monte Single
Sent: 11 March 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.
I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;
---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,
---an accessible antivirus and malware program.
What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?
Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?
Thanks,
Monte







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No but the initial boot up of Firefox 52 with nvda of that vintage is rather slow.
I tend to suggest Firefox 45 for single core processors with the older version of nvda and web sites myself.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


brian.
fortunately thanks God, i dont have issue using different websites
with firefox 52 except github which i wish to follow nvda changes,
edit my previous comments or reply comments of other people.
you always mention slowness of using web pages, but i dont have such
issues when disabling javascript!
when javascript be enabled for me, no difference between xp or 7 for
me, even seven was worse!
and even in xp, i experience sometimes 15 or 20 minutes that my system
is unusable and brows mode does not work, even sometimes i cant use
AltTab and go to another windows or programs.
this problem occur mostly when i use quora website which is unusable
without javascript.
can you please help me what should i do in this regard to overcome
problems and issues using such websites like quora with javascript?
thanks again, God bless you!

On 3/11/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on
Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support
for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never
had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and
often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much
the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack
to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck
of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of
years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it
will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda
version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months
issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates
change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for those who use
third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@sasktel.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if
some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win
7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7
after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte










--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes Our nhs and the folk who used into in ATMs paid for updates, and there was a registry hack to pretend to be one of the latter at the time and freeload off the back of that.
I doubt they will be falling into that trap this time. As I say, I have no beef with windows 10, I do have the beef about the way you are forced to update it completely every six months with variable results on your installed software and accessibility with nvda. As Joseph seems to have to keep on updating the essentials add on the changes have to be significant.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "ADRIAN POCOCK" <ampbeast@live.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Hi all

This might interest you, support after 2020 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBsuq77vngAhWJVRUIHdQZDX8QFjABegQIBhAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitaltrends.com%2Fcomputing%2Fmicrosoft-charges-windows-7-support%2F&usg=AOvVaw3bFaguXM-wB1WZtzZMQxhW

Regards Adrian.

On 11/03/2019 09:39, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.I wrote:
I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for those who use third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@sasktel.net><mailto:mrsingle@sasktel.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte














 

win7 and up are different beasts to xp.

There is always a possibility that until such time as third party stuff dropps 7 may not completely stop.

At any rate even if the core os updates stop, ms will continue for a time to update components for things so its not going to immediately stop.

With the end of life of office 2010 and 2013 people will have to shift to 2016 which is going to drop support in the next couple years anyway  or something else.

All 2019 versions of ms software will not run on anything below windows 10 anyway, so businesses will govern the trend.

And to be honest there is a lot of things going for 7 10 hasn't got.

Using ribbon disabler I can at least get my shell back and at least microsoft put back a start menu of sorts.

However bar stuff I need to use in settings, and with the acception of ear hocky, store, weather and scan, I don't use universal apps as such.

Also while windows10 is a nice os, there are a few games and bits of older software it refuses to be nice with to.

There is the loss of the midi mapper, and a few legacy things to.

Msaa is damn stable, now we have to deal with uia which can be a bit hit and miss.

Win10 is fine as long as you can rain in the ui and some of the outlandish settings for things sadly with third party hack tools but thats life.

To be honest the only reason I'd quit 7 all together would be if I couldn't get another win7 machine.

And due to being part of a reasonably well funded family I can afford a new box from time to time.

However, I can still buy basically what I have and older if I really want it.

Saying that I am quite happy with the size of this workstation with what it has.

On 11/03/2019 10:39 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for  those who use third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@sasktel.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte








.


 

Well that was like that for businesses on xp.

And there will probably be a crack for that to.

Saying that, as long as they keep their update history updated even if their auto update servers are not updated, we can probably manually download updates.



On 11/03/2019 11:21 PM, ADRIAN POCOCK wrote:

Hi all

This might interest you, support after 2020 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjBsuq77vngAhWJVRUIHdQZDX8QFjABegQIBhAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitaltrends.com%2Fcomputing%2Fmicrosoft-charges-windows-7-support%2F&usg=AOvVaw3bFaguXM-wB1WZtzZMQxhW

Regards Adrian.

On 11/03/2019 09:39, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.I wrote:
I don't know, but with the xp experience in the main MSSE still works on Intel machines there, and I suspect they will continue for a while.
The real end of XP was governed by third party software dropping support for it, but it still carries on working with the old stuff, and I've never had any problems with viruses, just very slow web sites in the main and often the inability of older browsers to access some sites. I suspect much the same will apply to Windows 7. Whether Microsoft will stop the old hack to get additional updates is debatable, but be wary of such things.
I do not know the NVDA policy on this. But I imagine there will be a heck of a lot of windows 7 users just like there was xp users for a couple of years so unless there is a compelling reason not to support it, I think it will work for a while yet, and in any case if you keep with the same nvda version then it will work as it always did.

To be honest the main reason not to use 10 is the new OS every 6 months issue. WE get used to things being as we learn them and often the updates change stuff all the time and can be a bit of an effort for  those who use third party software.
Otherwise I'd be on Windows 10.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Monte Single" <mrsingle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte












 

To be honest with exception of bgt, antimalware tools seem to go after a lot of blindness related programs for no reason I can see.

I have excluded my entire data drive on the workstation as well as several folders on my c drive from getting scanned which itself does put my risk up a little, however its that or loose files.

I don't trust security programs especially those that take over control.

On 12/03/2019 1:03 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well it is true that some anti virus solutions use techniques borrowed from malware to make themselves extremely hard to  corrupt or remove, because of course they become a legitimate target for malware themselves. however there are limits to what I'd  accept, and Avast has crossed this line for me, being unusable in nvda and almost unremovable even with its own uninstaller and corrupting something when it is removed.
However if you have an Intel based pc, MSSE will still work with the older version of nvda and is still updating here at any rate on windows 7 and XP and OK with nvda. With a bit of effort Superantispyware works well in the free version though some object and screen navigation is required at times for nvda to run correctly, and there seems no way to tick the box for unwanted software like rogue toolbars that nvda can see.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


i use windows xp and love it very much, except some of its limitations.
but i dont trust any antivirus programs and never use them!

On 3/11/19, Chris via Groups.Io <chrismedley=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think the lack of updates after 2020 are probably the least of your
worries if you are currently not using any type of antivirus program


From: Monte Single
Sent: 11 March 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.
I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;
---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,
---an accessible antivirus and malware program.
What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?
Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?
Thanks,
Monte







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali




.


 

Good points raised here!
I, myself, actually only have updated to Win 10 because I had to take a new laptop.
When I first started, I even thought of formating the toy and putting Win 7 onto it, but some features of Win 10 got me curious so I wound up staying with what I've already had.
However I wouldn't hurry anyone to update to Win 10 if they don't want to, at this point I don't think they really need it.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:00, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest it may take a little longer for microsoft to completely kill windows7.

While a lot of even x lease units are now win10, there are still x lease win7 units about and even in some rare cases you still can buy a few older generations of win7 workstations of 4-6th generation.

Its likely that thats all going to be phased out but even if it is, I doubt windows7 or even 8 when it finnally dropps out of support will actually drop completely.

Firstly, while xp actually was really on the way out, all oses from vista up use almost the same stuff.

Dot net 4.6 and 4.7 are supported on all windows systems from 7 up, visual basic up to vb 2015-2017 are still supported, as well as dotnet.

Drivers for hardware if you know where to go are all supported on the older systems to, there is a lot of modern hardware that while it runs on 10 will still be supported on 7 and even 8 in fact a lot of win 8 and 8.1 software and drivers will run on windows 10 not really recommended but I have some sound card drivers from win7/8 which run fine without issues.

To be honest, its going to be harder for microsoft to drop win7 and or even 8, for starters, there is a lot of hardware about, some workstations still use 7, and while a lot of businesses are now going to 10, thats only happening as of now, when they replace computers, I know this because of family that are in business.

With xp, people I talked to said they only updated to win7 when windows 10 was starting out, in fact they only started win7 with the 2015 version of windows 10 when that was coming out, going to 7.

Some others may wait longer or shorter times.

Its going to even be harder with windows 8 when microsoft finally cans it.

The only reason to not use win7 possibly is if you want to use a more powerfull system than the intel 6th gen, and after their security nightmare, effecting all systems, from what I hear from people that know, all the security measures in both firmware and windows mitigations have basically crapified the entire 7-8th generation and the 8th generation completely with reduced speed.

Its why I moved to amd which while it does share some similarities with the intel breaches has more protections than intel because of older technologies being used.

Bar the interface in win8x, the only reason you probably would want to switch would be because you would like universal apps or something.

With the universal nature of hardware its going to be harder and a longer time before all that stuff dies.

Whats going to probably eventually happen, is that hardware will stop being supported and other things but there is more of that than win xp ever had.

The only other reason to even concidder upgrading to win10 is to use usb c tech.

Its faster but the ports and plugs mean that basically 99.99999% of usb devices don't work on usb c meaning you have to buy more hubs to fit things in.

Now I have seen usb c storage and a few things but its still got to mature.

My origional plan was to get a 6th gen or a quad 7th gen with all ports or basically usb 2 and 3 like I used to have with my 3rd gen.

This amd system has usb 2 and usb 3.1 class a which means I get all the generation upgrades but not c.

Another issue I have with the new systems is the god awefull microphone and speaker input jack.

This means that even with effects off, the sound for the speakers and externals is emulated to a point.

This means I need audio drivers running at startup in order to have it emulate the right device properly.

I have tried without drivers and the card amp in this beast is to powerfull to run right.

Older units and some newer ones have this sort of thing in and not the 2 stand alone outputs.

The other god awefull thing that I really hate about the modern systems is the tieing of all their sound hardware to the display chip.

I understand why they do it, but after the god awefull time I had in 1995 when sound was tied to the cd drive I thought everyone had learned their lesson.

My asus workstation's card is a card not tied to anything, a 4th gen.

Then again maybe it is the blind that overtax their cards to a point the limiters trip.

Back in the day when volume controls, stand alone cards analog ones mainly and real speakers existed we didn't have any of this stupidness.

Now it works but there is a lot of emulation.

And due to the size of the speakers unless you get an entertainment, gaming or small workstation like I have the speakers are really small that effects are needed for sound to sound even half good.

Eventually windows 7 like xp will become utter crap, but its going to get longer.

Xp was allready being phased out by newer things, win98, 95, and old dos went the same way as well as win2k, me and probably win 8 and vista.

Sadly, win7 has a lot going for it.

There is still a lot of good tech that will be win7 able for ages yet.

And as I said, we would need a big change to really role users over to 10 at least any time fast.

From technical trends that myself and a friend are following who is in the security industry, the biggest threat is forging business emails, as businesses and indeviduals get smarter, the threat of ransomware is dropping to a point we can handle it reasonably well.

Won't be gone completely but still.

Unlike xp, there is no real advantage to really upgrade over win7 on its own.

With the loss of office 2010-2016 coming up in the next few years, that may be enough, and the processer limitations but there are hacks round that.

As long as  there are still people and businesses using it win7 will continue.

Another thing for 7 and against 10 is the fact microsoft has pulled out a lot of legacy stuff which is still used.

Things like midi mappers, and some stuff to run older games and programs which 7 even 64 bit can run with ease.

This is probably why microsoft went with win10 as a service, I mean why would you ever leave windows 10.

Unless your processer is really old, you wouldn't.

The intel 6gen has stopped production as of last year, 7th is still about but dropping out now.

Things may pick up with intel 9th gen maybe.

Microsoft have addressed some of the performance bottlenecks in the mitigations for intel cpus but still.

It will be harder to get rid of win7 and 8 than microsoft actually thinks.

Win8's interface may drive people to 10, and 8 will drop but 7 is unlikely to become as xp is.

Even so, people only dropped xp when their support libraries no longer worked with it.

To be honest, the only reason some stuff like older windows could be effected is if and when microsoft dropps 32 bit support.

Or at least 32 bit os versions.

A lot of programs use 32 and 64 bit code, nvda being one of them.

What will probably shove things along is the end of 32 as a hardware architecture.

32 bit machines havn't been made in ages and ages.

The reason 32 bit continues is that a few systems are still running with 1-4gb ram mainly and the fact a few older programs still exist.

Even if ms were to drop win7 support now, I doubt we'd see any real change for at least a decade or even more.

With all the cloud services and portables what we may see is a cludge of oses and devices being used at once.




On 11/03/2019 10:18 PM, Ian Blackburn wrote:
You can continue to use Windows 7 after the end date in the same way that people are still using Windows XP
But you take the risk of some sort of attack due to the fact that holes in the operating system are not being patched by the supplier
That’s a risk that you choose to take or not depending on your situation


On 11 Mar 2019, at 4:47 pm, Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.

I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some conditions are followed.I understand these to be;

---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,

---an accessible antivirus and malware program.

What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?

Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after January 2020?

Thanks,

Monte

 



 

That's why I only use Windows Defender.
It does get the job done and don't cause me any trouble. Just wonderful I'd say.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy
Follow or add me on Facebook

Em 11/03/2019 09:16, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

To be honest with exception of bgt, antimalware tools seem to go after a lot of blindness related programs for no reason I can see.

I have excluded my entire data drive on the workstation as well as several folders on my c drive from getting scanned which itself does put my risk up a little, however its that or loose files.

I don't trust security programs especially those that take over control.



On 12/03/2019 1:03 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well it is true that some anti virus solutions use techniques borrowed from malware to make themselves extremely hard to  corrupt or remove, because of course they become a legitimate target for malware themselves. however there are limits to what I'd  accept, and Avast has crossed this line for me, being unusable in nvda and almost unremovable even with its own uninstaller and corrupting something when it is removed.
However if you have an Intel based pc, MSSE will still work with the older version of nvda and is still updating here at any rate on windows 7 and XP and OK with nvda. With a bit of effort Superantispyware works well in the free version though some object and screen navigation is required at times for nvda to run correctly, and there seems no way to tick the box for unwanted software like rogue toolbars that nvda can see.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020


i use windows xp and love it very much, except some of its limitations.
but i dont trust any antivirus programs and never use them!

On 3/11/19, Chris via Groups.Io <chrismedley@...> wrote:
I think the lack of updates after 2020 are probably the least of your
worries if you are currently not using any type of antivirus program


From: Monte Single
Sent: 11 March 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] using win 7 after january 2020

Microsoft will stop issuing updates for win 7 next January.
I have read comments that win 7 can be used safely after this time if some
conditions are followed.I understand these to be;
---a current browser such as firefox or chrome,
---an accessible antivirus and malware program.
What are antivirus and malware programs that will work with nvda in win 7?
Are there other items that I should consider if I choose to use win 7 after
January 2020?
Thanks,
Monte









-- 
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali







.







 

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 08:09 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
As Joseph seems to have to keep on updating the essentials add on the changes have to be significant.
Joseph can (and will) certainly jump in on this himself, but what I've observed suggests that these updates were far less about Windows 10, per se, than staging for future NVDA development.   The last update was at the end of last September and is noted for NVDA 2018.3 to 2019.1.

Add-On Updater seems to be in constant spin as other add-ons "jump on the bandwagon" that allow it to work with it, and that's separate from Windows 10, per se, too.

I'm sure I'll be corrected, and accept it, if I'm wrong.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


 

It baffles me why nobody has shared the official blog post, but here it is, from Microsoft.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4057281/windows-7-support-will-end-on-january-14-2020


Vytautas Ziedelis
 

Sorry if this comment seems a bit off topic, I understand that but the reason for this is very important. Please read below and you understand why
 
Hello  dear group members, I am looking for people who finished or currently attending higher education.  I am doing a research for my 4th year project that involves analysis of experiences in higher education for blind and visually impaired individuals.
It is a questionnaire type of research, I totally get it if you think that not today, or someone else will do it, I'm really asking you to do it, because this research is very important,
I know answering survey questions is in the best time spent and it is annoying however please, please provide your feedback.
I struggled in higher education myself for 4 years, but I am finally in the 4th year last semester.    of my IT course. From my own experience I understand that many blind and visually impaired individuals have a hard time while studying in higher education due to the various reasons related to visual requirements of the course or support and understanding from the lecturers.
That is exactly the reason for this project, and therefore every answer is very important not for my project only, but also for all of us.
 
Some of you may answered this questionnaire before because it was posted before , however it is a new survey because I screwed that previous survey,  I had to fix the mistakes in the old one. And the outcome is that I had to create a new survey because platform didn't allow to modified the questions.
If you answered this survey previously I really appreciate that please do it again because I am lacking responses for the new one I had 44 in the previous one and a new one has only 11 responses thus far.
thank you very much for your help I really appreciate that, it is a tough job getting responses to the surveys, because I am aware that people like to skip them and understand why because it seems uninteresting,  but this 1 I think is important for blind and visually impaired community I designed that myself and that comes from my own experiences.
I am Leaving the link below so you can participate in find more about the questionnaire
 
http://bit.ly/2tZaHse