Punctuation/Symbol pronunciation


 

Can anyone explain what the Level setting actually means in this dialog?  The possible values are: none, some, most, all, character.  There also seems to be some sort of tie between this and the complex symbols, which are particularly opaque and don't appear to be regular expressions, though they might be.

As well as how the preservation setting, "only below a symbol's level" interacts with it/them.

The User's Guide does not go into the function of these two options with any depth at all.  If there is other reference material, I'm happy to read that if someone can tell me where it's located.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Andre Fisher
 

In essence, the level represents the lowest level to which a symbol will be pronounced by NVDA. For example, the at sign (@) is set to be pronounced at the Some level, so if the symbol is encountered at the Some, Most, All or Character level, it will be reported, but not at the None level.

By default, NVDA is set to pronounce all symbols at the Some level. This can be changed in the Speech settings dialog, or by pressing NVDA+P to cycle through the first four settings.

I have set the greater and less than symbols to be pronounced at the Most level, which indicates a deviation from the default. This is a very powerful tool now, with the inclusion of emojis in the dialog. What it needs now is a search bar.


 

Andre,

           Thanks for what you've offered, I really do appreciate it.  It still does not tell me what the settings other than none actually mean about when, precisely, a symbol will be pronounced as an atomic unit.  How is "Some" different from most, all, and character.  I am presuming that "all" means every time it's encountered it's pronounced, but I'm still entirely unclear if there's a string of symbols what will happen.  Essentially a word composed of symbols.

            My main reason for asking this is if one is working with documents with phonetic transcriptions in the International Phonetic Alphabet there will be words that are composed as a sequence of symbols with no white space between those symbols.   If one wants those words read out loud, character by character, what should the Level and preservation settings be?

             Given the nature of the symbol set, I am presuming that the preservation setting will be "never" since no synth should be expected to recognize these characters in any way that is generally pronounceable. 

              At this point I'm making a guess that level should be character (but maybe all, I'm not certain).  I can find no description in any documentation I've found about what these terms mean "in real life" and how they interact with each other.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Jackie
 

Brian, not quite. None means that no punctuation symbols will be
pronounced. Some means that certain ones will, like $, >, @, etc. The
3rd means that others, ie, ;, " will be pronounced, but not , ? . !
ie, the more common sentence punctuation. In all, every symbol is
spoken.

Does that help?

On 3/17/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Andre,

           Thanks for what you've offered, I really do appreciate it.  It
still does not tell me what the settings other than none actually mean about
when, precisely, a symbol will be pronounced as an atomic unit.  How is
"Some" different from most, all, and character.  I am presuming that "all"
means every time it's encountered it's pronounced, but I'm still entirely
unclear if there's a string of symbols what will happen.  Essentially a word
composed of symbols.

            My main reason for asking this is if one is working with
documents with phonetic transcriptions in the International Phonetic
Alphabet there will be words that are composed as a sequence of symbols with
no white space between those symbols.   If one wants those words read out
loud, character by character, what should the Level and preservation
settings be?

             Given the nature of the symbol set, I am presuming that the
preservation setting will be "never" since no synth should be expected to
recognize these characters in any way that is generally pronounceable.

              At this point I'm making a guess that level should be
character (but maybe all, I'm not certain).  I can find no description in
any documentation I've found about what these terms mean "in real life" and
how they interact with each other.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back



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Jackie,

         Actually, no, at least it doesn't make any sense to me.   Those level values are associated with each and every individual punctuation or symbol.

         For instance, if someone had a dollar sign symbol, what is the difference if this is paired with each of the levels (none being pretty obvious if it means, as I suspect and Andre described, ignore it and never pronounce it).

         The levels do not seem to be defining behavior for a given symbol relative to any other symbol, but for the symbol itself based on some sort of context determined by its placement in the text.  I just can't fathom how.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Jackie
 

Actually, Brian, it's just the symbols themselves. None & all are
pretty obvious, I suspect. The "some" level reads commonly needed
symbols, ie, @, #, %, &, *, +, < >, etc. These are symbols which, if
not read, could cause the text to not make sense. This is NVDA's
default setting.

"Most" steps it up a bit, reading things like ;, -, (, ), :, ~, `, but
not commonly used sentence-ending symbols, like ., ?, , & !. Those are
read at the "all" level.

On 3/17/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Jackie,

         Actually, no, at least it doesn't make any sense to me.   Those
level values are associated with each and every individual punctuation or
symbol.

         For instance, if someone had a dollar sign symbol, what is the
difference if this is paired with each of the levels (none being pretty
obvious if it means, as I suspect and Andre described, ignore it and never
pronounce it).

         The levels do not seem to be defining behavior for a given symbol
relative to any other symbol, but for the symbol itself based on some sort
of context determined by its placement in the text.  I just can't fathom
how.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back



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Jackie,

          Unless I see a technical document describing the interactions I will never understand this.   For the vulgur fractions, for instance, things like the one-third or five-eighths symbols these are all noted as level "none" and have nothing for the preservation level (though I get that if it's none you wouldn't likely pass it to the synth, so I presume the default absent a value is never).    I don't understand how a recipe that uses the one-third symbol, which is not uncommon before the word cup, would ever read correctly.    The one-third symbol in symbols.dic, is given a replacement value of one-third, but a level of none.

          By the way, and I don't think I introduced this error, the five-eighths symbol has a replacement value of five eighths, but there is no tab after the S in eighths and it runs straight into the word none that follows it.  All others have that tab after the replacement value.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Tony Malykh
 

Brian,
Let me try to describe it in other words.
We have 4 punctuation verbosity settings that can be cycled through using NVDA+P. They are None, Some, Most and All. All is clear - just read all punctuation signs. But for many people that's too much punctuation. So we want to make some of the "not so important" punctuation signs to be ignored by speech synthesizer. There comes "Most" setting.  How do we decide which punctuation signs are to be ignored when the setting is set to most? The ones that are marked "All" in the punctuation dialog. And the ones that will be still pronounced are the ones that are marked with "Most" and above ("All", "None")
Same thing for the next verbosity level "Some". Only the characters marked "Some" and above ("All") will be pronounced.
I assume in some cases you want to ignore all punctuation, so you set punctuation verbosity to "None". In this case only the characters marked with level "None" will be reported, such as fractions, which are  arguably should never be skipped over.

Hope this explanation helps.
--Tony

On 3/17/2019 5:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Jackie,

          Unless I see a technical document describing the interactions I will never understand this.   For the vulgur fractions, for instance, things like the one-third or five-eighths symbols these are all noted as level "none" and have nothing for the preservation level (though I get that if it's none you wouldn't likely pass it to the synth, so I presume the default absent a value is never).    I don't understand how a recipe that uses the one-third symbol, which is not uncommon before the word cup, would ever read correctly.    The one-third symbol in symbols.dic, is given a replacement value of one-third, but a level of none.

          By the way, and I don't think I introduced this error, the five-eighths symbol has a replacement value of five eighths, but there is no tab after the S in eighths and it runs straight into the word none that follows it.  All others have that tab after the replacement value.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Gene
 

Let's say you want period to be spoken at the none level and you don't want any other punctuation spoken at that level.  You set period for none.  You have now tailored punctuation so that period and nothing else will be spoken at the none level.  So you can tailor exactly what is spoken at what level.  A mark set to none will be spoken at none and in all other levels.  A punctuation mark that is set to most will be spoken at most and all, etc.
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Punctuation/Symbol pronunciation

Actually, Brian, it's just the symbols themselves. None & all are
pretty obvious, I suspect. The "some" level reads commonly needed
symbols, ie, @, #, %, &, *, +, < >, etc. These are symbols which, if
not read, could cause the text to not make sense. This is NVDA's
default setting.

"Most" steps it up a bit, reading things like ;, -, (, ), :, ~, `, but
not commonly used sentence-ending symbols, like ., ?, , & !. Those are
read at the "all" level.

On 3/17/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Jackie,
>
>          Actually, no, at least it doesn't make any sense to me.   Those
> level values are associated with each and every individual punctuation or
> symbol.
>
>          For instance, if someone had a dollar sign symbol, what is the
> difference if this is paired with each of the levels (none being pretty
> obvious if it means, as I suspect and Andre described, ignore it and never
> pronounce it).
>
>          The levels do not seem to be defining behavior for a given symbol
> relative to any other symbol, but for the symbol itself based on some sort
> of context determined by its placement in the text.  I just can't fathom
> how.
>
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
> illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


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Andre Fisher
 

Brian,

It's as simple as this. Take none, some, most, all and even character as levels on a ladder, with none being the lowest level. Now, let's say that we have the dash (-) sign. By default, this symbol is on the most level. So, it stands on the third level of the ladder. If I set my NVDA to speak punctuations on that level and any level above, it will speak that symbol. If I set NVDA to none or some, it won't. The level symbols that are pronounced is preset by NVDA, but you can customize these levels, and other features of symbols, such as the name, and if the symbol should be affected by the synthesizer. In the previous example, the dash (-) symbol is set to most, but to never be affected by the synthesizer. I set the dash so that it is always affected, so a pause sometimes occurs when it is encountered.

So, none, some, most, all and character are NVDA created preset levels, with symbols placed on each step or category.


 

I need to step away from this for the evening.  I have a history as a programmer and I still cannot comprehend in which orders these levels ensure that something is said versus when it isn't.

Based on Tony's description these seem to be "skip speaking the item levels," with none meaning always spoken, while what I'm getting from your description is the opposite.

It would be so much easier for me if these were numbers rather than English descriptions.   At least then the hierarchy order would be clear.

In any case, my main concern at the moment is if one has a series of symbols that compose a word, but those symbols are not letters, and you want to be certain that these symbols are always spoken each and every time they're encountered, what does one set the level to in order to ensure that.  They'd never be passed to the synth since it's the symbol name (replacement text) that will need to be spoken.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Andre Fisher
 

In that case, you'd set the symbol level to none, and to never send the symbol to the synthesizer.

Level 1: None (only those symbols that are deemed highly essential will be reported.
Level 2: Some: Some additional symbols will be reported. All emoji fall in this category. Therefore, to not hear them, set it to none.
Level 3: Most: This is the default for JAWS screen reader, things like dashes, parentheses, brackets, quotes etc. will now be spoken.
Level 4: All: All symbols will be reported. This includes the commas, periods, question marks and exclamation points.
Level 5: Character: These symbols will only be reported when moving by character.


Jackie
 

Brian, maybe this analogy will help. I'm going to use the analogy of
access controls. Because WordPress is what I'm most familiar with, I'm
going to use its levels, ie, administrator, editor, author,
subscriber. Clearly, the administrator is like the 700lb
gorrilla--where does he sit in your living room? Anywhere he wants!
The editor can do everything an admin can except install software &
update the site. An author can do whatever s/he wants w/his/her own
posts, but no one else's, & a subscriber can read & comment.

If you're looking at a symbol in the symbol pronunciation list, & it's
set to level none, then it will always be read, no matter NVDA's
punctuation setting. It's like the administrator. If a symbol is set
to some, it's like the editor. If the user has the punctuation level
set to none, it won't be read, but if it's set to some or higher, then
it will be. Most is like the author, ie, if a symbol is set to "most"
or "all" in the pronunciation list, then it will be read when the
punctuation level is set to "most" or "all". If the symbol is set to
all, then it will only be read if NVDA punctuation is set to all. It's
least privileged, as it were, rather like a WordPress subscriber.

Programmatically, using a pseudocode, it might look something like:
if symbol-encountered
{
check-symbol-pronunciation-list
if symbol-says-none #we don't even have to think about it
{
read-symbol
break
}
if symbol-says-some && NVDA-punctuation >= some
{
read-symbol
break
}
if symbol-says-most && NVDA-punctuation >= most
{
read-symbol
break
}
if symbol-says-all && NVDA-punctuation == all
{
read-symbol
break
}
}

Does that help any?

On 3/17/19, Andre Fisher <andrefisher729@...> wrote:
In that case, you'd set the symbol level to none, and to never send the
symbol to the synthesizer.

Level 1: None (only those symbols that are deemed highly essential will be
reported.
Level 2: Some: Some additional symbols will be reported. All emoji fall in
this category. Therefore, to not hear them, set it to none.
Level 3: Most: This is the default for JAWS screen reader, things like
dashes, parentheses, brackets, quotes etc. will now be spoken.
Level 4: All: All symbols will be reported. This includes the commas,
periods, question marks and exclamation points.
Level 5: Character: These symbols will only be reported when moving by
character.



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Jackie
 

Brian, you queried:
"In any case, my main concern at the moment is if one has a series of
symbols that compose a word, but those symbols are not letters, and
you want to be certain that these symbols are always spoken each and
every time they're encountered, what does one set the level to in
order to ensure that.  They'd never be passed to the synth since it's
the symbol name (replacement text) that will need to be spoken."

I think this would be a better place for a dictionary entry rather
than using the symbol pronunciation list. Just my $.02, & likely worth
precisely what you paid for it.

I hope I've helped you after inadvertently sending you on a snipe
hunt. Good luck w/your project.

On 3/17/19, Jackie McBride <abletec@...> wrote:
Brian, maybe this analogy will help. I'm going to use the analogy of
access controls. Because WordPress is what I'm most familiar with, I'm
going to use its levels, ie, administrator, editor, author,
subscriber. Clearly, the administrator is like the 700lb
gorrilla--where does he sit in your living room? Anywhere he wants!
The editor can do everything an admin can except install software &
update the site. An author can do whatever s/he wants w/his/her own
posts, but no one else's, & a subscriber can read & comment.

If you're looking at a symbol in the symbol pronunciation list, & it's
set to level none, then it will always be read, no matter NVDA's
punctuation setting. It's like the administrator. If a symbol is set
to some, it's like the editor. If the user has the punctuation level
set to none, it won't be read, but if it's set to some or higher, then
it will be. Most is like the author, ie, if a symbol is set to "most"
or "all" in the pronunciation list, then it will be read when the
punctuation level is set to "most" or "all". If the symbol is set to
all, then it will only be read if NVDA punctuation is set to all. It's
least privileged, as it were, rather like a WordPress subscriber.

Programmatically, using a pseudocode, it might look something like:
if symbol-encountered
{
check-symbol-pronunciation-list
if symbol-says-none #we don't even have to think about it
{
read-symbol
break
}
if symbol-says-some && NVDA-punctuation >= some
{
read-symbol
break
}
if symbol-says-most && NVDA-punctuation >= most
{
read-symbol
break
}
if symbol-says-all && NVDA-punctuation == all
{
read-symbol
break
}
}

Does that help any?

On 3/17/19, Andre Fisher <andrefisher729@...> wrote:
In that case, you'd set the symbol level to none, and to never send the
symbol to the synthesizer.

Level 1: None (only those symbols that are deemed highly essential will
be
reported.
Level 2: Some: Some additional symbols will be reported. All emoji fall
in
this category. Therefore, to not hear them, set it to none.
Level 3: Most: This is the default for JAWS screen reader, things like
dashes, parentheses, brackets, quotes etc. will now be spoken.
Level 4: All: All symbols will be reported. This includes the commas,
periods, question marks and exclamation points.
Level 5: Character: These symbols will only be reported when moving by
character.




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Yes I did this some time back as people tend to use these only when quoting etc, and its intensely annoying.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre Fisher" <andrefisher729@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Punctuation/Symbol pronunciation


In essence, the level represents the lowest level to which a symbol will be pronounced by NVDA. For example, the at sign (@) is set to be pronounced at the Some level, so if the symbol is encountered at the Some, Most, All or Character level, it will be reported, but not at the None level.

By default, NVDA is set to pronounce all symbols at the Some level. This can be changed in the Speech settings dialog, or by pressing NVDA+P to cycle through the first four settings.

I have set the greater and less than symbols to be pronounced at the Most level, which indicates a deviation from the default. This is a very powerful tool now, with the inclusion of emojis in the dialog. What it needs now is a search bar.


Brian's Mail list account
 

I think he is interested in under which conditions do the levels work, ie obbviously you do not want full stop every time one is encountered in a say all but you would as a decimal point etc.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie" <abletec@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Punctuation/Symbol pronunciation


Brian, not quite. None means that no punctuation symbols will be
pronounced. Some means that certain ones will, like $, >, @, etc. The
3rd means that others, ie, ;, " will be pronounced, but not , ? . !
ie, the more common sentence punctuation. In all, every symbol is
spoken.

Does that help?

On 3/17/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Andre,

Thanks for what you've offered, I really do appreciate it. It
still does not tell me what the settings other than none actually mean about
when, precisely, a symbol will be pronounced as an atomic unit. How is
"Some" different from most, all, and character. I am presuming that "all"
means every time it's encountered it's pronounced, but I'm still entirely
unclear if there's a string of symbols what will happen. Essentially a word
composed of symbols.

My main reason for asking this is if one is working with
documents with phonetic transcriptions in the International Phonetic
Alphabet there will be words that are composed as a sequence of symbols with
no white space between those symbols. If one wants those words read out
loud, character by character, what should the Level and preservation
settings be?

Given the nature of the symbol set, I am presuming that the
preservation setting will be "never" since no synth should be expected to
recognize these characters in any way that is generally pronounceable.

At this point I'm making a guess that level should be
character (but maybe all, I'm not certain). I can find no description in
any documentation I've found about what these terms mean "in real life" and
how they interact with each other.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back




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Brian's Mail list account
 

I often wonder if fractions should not be in a place of their own in any case though. The symbols have grown like topsy the rabbit over the years of course to encompass almost anything which is not a letter or a number.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Malykh" <anton.malykh@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Punctuation/Symbol pronunciation


Brian,
Let me try to describe it in other words.
We have 4 punctuation verbosity settings that can be cycled through
using NVDA+P. They are None, Some, Most and All. All is clear - just
read all punctuation signs. But for many people that's too much
punctuation. So we want to make some of the "not so important"
punctuation signs to be ignored by speech synthesizer. There comes
"Most" setting. How do we decide which punctuation signs are to be
ignored when the setting is set to most? The ones that are marked "All"
in the punctuation dialog. And the ones that will be still pronounced
are the ones that are marked with "Most" and above ("All", "None")
Same thing for the next verbosity level "Some". Only the characters
marked "Some" and above ("All") will be pronounced.
I assume in some cases you want to ignore all punctuation, so you set
punctuation verbosity to "None". In this case only the characters marked
with level "None" will be reported, such as fractions, which are
arguably should never be skipped over.

Hope this explanation helps.
--Tony

On 3/17/2019 5:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Jackie,

Unless I see a technical document describing the
interactions I will never understand this. For the vulgur fractions,
for instance, things like the one-third or five-eighths symbols these
are all noted as level "none" and have nothing for the preservation
level (though I get that if it's none you wouldn't likely pass it to
the synth, so I presume the default absent a value is never). I
don't understand how a recipe that uses the one-third symbol, which is
not uncommon before the word cup, would ever read correctly. The
one-third symbol in symbols.dic, is given a replacement value of
one-third, but a level of none.

By the way, and I don't think I introduced this error, the
five-eighths symbol has a replacement value of five eighths, but there
is no tab after the S in eighths and it runs straight into the word
none that follows it. All others have that tab after the replacement
value.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*/A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep./*

~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/



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I do not think what you want can be done in that dialogue, or at least not reliably so.
I find that it is with this sort of thing that we get embroiled in what should the synth be doing vs. what should the screenreader be doing.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Punctuation/Symbol pronunciation


I need to step away from this for the evening. I have a history as a programmer and I still cannot comprehend in which orders these levels ensure that something is said versus when it isn't.

Based on Tony's description these seem to be "skip speaking the item levels," with none meaning always spoken, while what I'm getting from your description is the opposite.

It would be so much easier for me if these were numbers rather than English descriptions. At least then the hierarchy order would be clear.

In any case, my main concern at the moment is if one has a series of symbols that compose a word, but those symbols are not letters, and you want to be certain that these symbols are always spoken each and every time they're encountered, what does one set the level to in order to ensure that. They'd never be passed to the synth since it's the symbol name (replacement text) that will need to be spoken.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


 

Jackie,

           That pseudocode sequence helps a lot.   It also confirms that the meaning of the levels, essentially, is a "skip this under what conditions" setting, where none gets you constant reading (skip none), and, under typical NVDA settings conditions, all gets you never read (skip all).

           When I first started looking at this I was interpreting the level as a "speak under what conditions" descriptor, taking "all" as meaning speak always and none as meaning "don't ever speak it."

           For me, it seemed that some of the descriptions during this exchange were each saying the above (though only one of the above).  This is also not documented well anywhere that I can find, which made things worse.  I realize that these sorts of "under the hood" level functions are seldom twiddled, but that makes documentation regarding same even more essential for when someone actually wants or needs to twiddle.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Jackie
 

Actually, Brian, the symbols that are set to 'all' do get read if NVDA
punctuation is set to all. It's a horrible setting for casual reading,
but, when you're programming & correct punctuation will make or break
the program, as is often the case, then it's a necessary setting.

You said:
"When I first started looking at this I was interpreting the level as
a "speak under what conditions" descriptor, taking "all" as meaning
speak always and none as meaning "don't ever speak it.""

I could tell that was what was confusing you. Since you stated you had
a history as a programmer, I was hoping a little pseudocode demo would
clarify this whole concept for you.

I agree about the documentation, of course. There is a brief snippet
in the NVDA user's guide, but it might not be as instructive to
someone who is struggling w/the concept. At any rate, I'm really
thinking that what it appears you wish to do might better be done by
using the dictionary.

On 3/18/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Jackie,

           That pseudocode sequence helps a lot.   It also confirms that the
meaning of the levels, essentially, is a "skip this under what conditions"
setting, where none gets you constant reading (skip none), and, under
typical NVDA settings conditions, all gets you never read (skip all).

           When I first started looking at this I was interpreting the level
as a "speak under what conditions" descriptor, taking "all" as meaning speak
always and none as meaning "don't ever speak it."

           For me, it seemed that some of the descriptions during this
exchange were each saying the above (though only one of the above).  This is
also not documented well anywhere that I can find, which made things worse.
I realize that these sorts of "under the hood" level functions are seldom
twiddled, but that makes documentation regarding same even more essential
for when someone actually wants or needs to twiddle.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for
illusion is deep.*

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back



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