Last action in ms excel key F4


Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh
 

 Hello friends
There is a difference when I press the key f4  in jaws and in NVDA 
 In Jaws it performs the last action in excel but it is not the same case when using NVDA 
 Is there any alternate key combination to achieve the same 

Ahtesham


Brian's Mail list account
 

I don't know what Jaws does it might be handy to explain and indeed what you are trying to achieve for us to attempt a reply.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh" <mohd.ahtesham@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 2:40 AM
Subject: [nvda] Last action in ms excel key F4


Hello friends
There is a difference when I press the key f4 in jaws and in NVDA
In Jaws it performs the last action in excel but it is not the same case
when using NVDA
Is there any alternate key combination to achieve the same

Ahtesham



Giles Turnbull
 

In my sighted days I used the F4 shortcut in Excel a lot. Brian, in a nutshell it does exactly what Ahtesham said it does ... it performs the last action you did so that you can apply the same action to another cell. For example, if you format the text in one cell to be bold or blue, pressing the F4 key in the next cell down would repeat that action, turning its text bold or blue. Likewise you might want to change the date format from 7 April 2019 to 07/04/2019 in a few non-adjacent cells, in which case you can apply the format to the first cell and then move to the next cell(s) and repeat the formatting without having to navigate the ribbon or menues to manually apply the same format.

Although I've used NVDA exclusively since 2012 and just assumed something had changed in Excel and the F4 shortcut no longer worked for anybody, I did recently install JAWS 2019 and I can confirm the F4 shortcut does still work using JAWS. I made a cell bold with CTRL+b and then pressed F4 to apply the same effect to half a dozen different cells.

Giles


 

It's possible that something else is intercepting that keystroke prior to it ever filtering through to MS-Excel.

In looking at the NVDA Commands Quick Reference, under the EcoBraille section, it notes that F4 gets used for "Move to previous object."

When screen readers and other assistive software are involved there is a distinct keystroke interception hierarchy where if you're using something "above" the application layer that uses a given keystroke that's where it will stop rather than being passed on down to the application itself.

I just tested F4, with NVDA not in use and with NVDA active, and it did "repeat last action" in both situations.   I have a number of add-ons active, so it's not NVDA nor one of the add-ons I use.   There has got to be something active that expects the F4 key for some other purpose and that intercepts it, preventing it from making it to MS-Excel.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

           ~ Edward Abbey

 

 


Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh
 

So what is the solution?


On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 at 8:47 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
It's possible that something else is intercepting that keystroke prior to it ever filtering through to MS-Excel.

In looking at the NVDA Commands Quick Reference, under the EcoBraille section, it notes that F4 gets used for "Move to previous object."

When screen readers and other assistive software are involved there is a distinct keystroke interception hierarchy where if you're using something "above" the application layer that uses a given keystroke that's where it will stop rather than being passed on down to the application itself.

I just tested F4, with NVDA not in use and with NVDA active, and it did "repeat last action" in both situations.   I have a number of add-ons active, so it's not NVDA nor one of the add-ons I use.   There has got to be something active that expects the F4 key for some other purpose and that intercepts it, preventing it from making it to MS-Excel.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

           ~ Edward Abbey

 

 


 

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 11:41 AM, Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh wrote:
So what is the solution?
What add-ons are you using?  It's most likely one of those since you say you don't have the issue with JAWS and I'm presuming that you're not changing anything about your computer itself when you're running either JAWS or NVDA.

The solution is generally disabling all add-ons and re-enabling, one by one, until the problem occurs again, then you have your culprit.  Then, if the add-on supports key remapping (and many do) you'd change whatever it uses F4 for to use a different key for that function so that F4 is allowed to pass down to MS-Excel.

The Add-Ons I'm using, which clearly are not a part of this problem since it doesn't happen with them enabled, are:
Add-on Updater
Easy Table Navigator
Focus Highlight
Golden Cursor
Image describer
NoBeepsSpeechMode
ObjPad
Remote Support
Windows 10 App Essentials
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

           ~ Edward Abbey

 

 


Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Mohd and Brian Vogel,

I tried what Brian suggested and I found the culprit on my system right away becuase it / they were the first two addons in the installed list.

Acapela TTS Voices for NVDA; Disabled; 1.2; Acapela Group  1 of 8
Acapela TTS Voices for NVDA - CO voices; Disabled; 1.4; Acapela

I don't use the Acapela voices anymore so I don't need the addon active. When I tried the Excel F4 after I had disabled them and re-started NVDA, F4 does now repeat the prevoius previous action in Excel.

If it's not the Acapela addon it will be one of the others you have active. For reference, the other addons I have active which are not the cause are:
BluetoothAudio
Emoticons
An extended appModule for Winamp music player
Screen Curtain
VLC Media Player
Windows 10 App Essentials

Hpe that helps you, Modh :)

Giles


 

Giles,

           Thanks much for the additions to the list of "not problematic" add-ons as well as having identified two that are problematic with regard to the use of F4.

           I have tried to explain to my students that when any key is pressed, the first thing that gets a chance to "have at it" is the operating system.  If the operating system doesn't do anything with it then it gets passed to the next layer, and when a screen reader or other assistive technology is in the mix it gets it next.   If anything in that layer can process that key press, that's where it will stop being passed along, and that's even if that key press will do nothing in context when it happens to be pressed.  Once something intercepts it, and processes it, the key press does not continue through the hierarchy of processing any further.

            The more "stuff" you have running, and particularly a screen reader and a bunch of add-ons, the more likely it is that one of them is going to snag a key press that you "never use" when doing your day-to-day activity, so you have no idea that it's being snagged at that layer, until something at the application layer uses that key press, too, and you expect it to see it and act, and it can't, because the key press has already been snagged and processed before it ever sees it.

             I'd say this is probably the most common reason a screen reader user finds that certain application key sequences don't work, and it's not because of an application bug, nor even a bug in the screen reader or add-ons, but because things are actually working as designed with their defaults, which sometimes have to be changed.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

           ~ Edward Abbey

 

 


Mohd. Ahtesham Shaikh
 

Thx all
I shall try and give my feedback
 Seems a little bit complicated for me but surely I will try 


On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 8:13 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Giles,

           Thanks much for the additions to the list of "not problematic" add-ons as well as having identified two that are problematic with regard to the use of F4.

           I have tried to explain to my students that when any key is pressed, the first thing that gets a chance to "have at it" is the operating system.  If the operating system doesn't do anything with it then it gets passed to the next layer, and when a screen reader or other assistive technology is in the mix it gets it next.   If anything in that layer can process that key press, that's where it will stop being passed along, and that's even if that key press will do nothing in context when it happens to be pressed.  Once something intercepts it, and processes it, the key press does not continue through the hierarchy of processing any further.

            The more "stuff" you have running, and particularly a screen reader and a bunch of add-ons, the more likely it is that one of them is going to snag a key press that you "never use" when doing your day-to-day activity, so you have no idea that it's being snagged at that layer, until something at the application layer uses that key press, too, and you expect it to see it and act, and it can't, because the key press has already been snagged and processed before it ever sees it.

             I'd say this is probably the most common reason a screen reader user finds that certain application key sequences don't work, and it's not because of an application bug, nor even a bug in the screen reader or add-ons, but because things are actually working as designed with their defaults, which sometimes have to be changed.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.

           ~ Edward Abbey