NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?


David Russell
 

Hello NVDA group,

If someone is familiar with registering as an author with Barnes and
Noble Press, this is what this email post is generated from.

When combo boxes are present, and the order of states in the US for
example, is read as a group on one line, how do I go about separating
them out to indicate my state of residence?

When reading an agreement with NVDA, how does one accept or reject if
the choices are not heard at the outset, during, or end of the
agreement text?
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Gene
 

In browse mode settings, turn off use screen layout if supported.  That will cause you to see every individual control and link on its own line.  You are probably seeing a group of combo boxes together because use screen layout is on.  To turn it off, uncheck it with the space bar, activate the ok button and, if you don't have NVDA set to save settings on exit, save the new setting permanently with control NVDA key c.  To get into browse mode, you can use the command control NVDA key b.
 
This is one more example of why use screen layout should be off by default.  Who knows how many people have problems because they don't know about the command and having it off is better in many instances.
 
It may be desirable to have it on in certain instances such as on forum discussion pages but most of the time, it is better to have it off.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 9:00 AM
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?

Hello NVDA group,

If someone is familiar with registering as an author with Barnes and
Noble Press, this is what this email post is generated from.

When combo boxes are present, and the order of states in the US for
example, is read as a group on one line, how do I go about separating
them out to indicate my state of residence?

When reading an agreement with NVDA, how does one accept or reject if
the choices are not heard at the outset, during, or end of the
agreement text?
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...



David Russell
 

Hello,

I want to thank you for your help with my issue of combo boxes and
such at the Barnes and Noble website. Gene, your instructions were
clear and understandable. Thanks!

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Gene
 

That's good.
 
Gene
----- original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 12:40 PM
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] NVDA with Combo Boxes, Agreement, Addressed

Hello,

I want to thank you for your help with my issue of combo boxes and
such at the Barnes and Noble website. Gene, your instructions were
clear and understandable. Thanks!

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@...



Andre Fisher
 

Hi.

One would argue though, that separating links and other controls on their own line is a feature rather than how a screen reader (which should try and lay out elements on a page similarly to how a sighted person sees it) should operate. Persons that normally advocate for this change are previous users of other screen readers, but I doubt that is enough to justify the change.


Gene
 

I'm not advocating for it because I have used other screen-readers.  I'm advocating for it because I've tried both ways.  Also, web pages aren't
seen in browse mode by blind people the way a sighted person sees them whether this feature is on or off.  A sighted person doesn't see a cursor on a web page except when in an edit field.  Blind people in browse mode use a virtual cursor.  A sighted person doesn't have to write except when in an edit field of a web page.  He/she looks at the screen.  A blind person has to move around the screen as in a document with a virtual cursor to accomplish this.
 
Many times, people want scripts to be written to read information in a specific order and to skip information that is clutter for what they are doing. 
 
What if you are working with some sort of data base program for a job and you need to hear fields one and five and nothing else when looking at an entry.  The whole point is to customize what is read so you don't hear three items in each entry that are irrelevant to the information you need.  And if there is a sixth field, you don't want that read to distract you from the information you have heard because you don't need that information.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?

Hi.

One would argue though, that separating links and other controls on their own line is a feature rather than how a screen reader (which should try and lay out elements on a page similarly to how a sighted person sees it) should operate. Persons that normally advocate for this change are previous users of other screen readers, but I doubt that is enough to justify the change.


Andre Fisher
 

Hi.

As it relates to your last point, I'm lost as to the purpose of what you are saying. Now, note that I said that NVDA Tries to lay out the information similarly to how sighted persons see it on a page. Screen reader users and sighted folk, obviously, use and see web pages differently, but the idea of screen layout is to provide blind persons with what can be classified as a visual layout.

For me, and this is when I just switched to NVDA, I found that this was better for my needs. On some web pages, it allowed me to quickly pass a number of links, for example, without using the N key. Form fields as well, as I knew the shortcut to move between them. Having each link on its own line, I found, made reading a page take longer, and when reading on Wikipedia, for example, was not very intuitive.

I wonder though, how many new screen readers would actually change to simple layout (turning screen layout off)?


Gene
 

That may be one idea behind it but I don't think it is an important one.  the screen is still organized very differently.  I think the main reason it was provided is that on pages such as web discussion forms, it is often much easier to use them when screen layout is used. 
 
I believe that in most cases, it is easier to have each link and control appear on its own line.
 
As to why you found Wikipedia more intuitive, and why you said that it took longer to read the page when screen layout is off, I'd have to know how you work with the page. 
 
The last point in my last message has nothing to do with the Internet.  I'm illustrating that having a screen-reader display or read text as a sighted person sees it isn't automatically desirable in and of itself.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?

Hi.

As it relates to your last point, I'm lost as to the purpose of what you are saying. Now, note that I said that NVDA Tries to lay out the information similarly to how sighted persons see it on a page. Screen reader users and sighted folk, obviously, use and see web pages differently, but the idea of screen layout is to provide blind persons with what can be classified as a visual layout.

For me, and this is when I just switched to NVDA, I found that this was better for my needs. On some web pages, it allowed me to quickly pass a number of links, for example, without using the N key. Form fields as well, as I knew the shortcut to move between them. Having each link on its own line, I found, made reading a page take longer, and when reading on Wikipedia, for example, was not very intuitive.

I wonder though, how many new screen readers would actually change to simple layout (turning screen layout off)?


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Weeeell, its all down to how you use the system is it not? If you have never been sighted ten I find most have it on as its easier, but if like me you were sighted once having each on a new line can be confusing. It really depends on how well the page was designed though. Some leave no space between them and this can be fiddly to get to work out which combo box or whatever active control it is, is in play.
Another annoyance is that often sites mix normal combos with the ones that will jump out as soon as you start to change them. of course you can get around this with pressing extra keys as you cursor, but its bad design.
On the issue of licence accepting. this is an ongoing issue both online and in some installers. I find often one has to resort to screen navigation to find the individual buttons for accept and not accept.
Another bit of bad design.
My current annoyance is Capchars with pictures, but that is a whole other subject so I will not talk about it here. Its bad enough that forums seem to not use headers or other easy to navigate devices these days which makes them almost unusable if you want to use them quickly.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre Fisher" <andrefisher729@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?


Hi.

One would argue though, that separating links and other controls on their own line is a feature rather than how a screen reader (which should try and lay out elements on a page similarly to how a sighted person sees it) should operate. Persons that normally advocate for this change are previous users of other screen readers, but I doubt that is enough to justify the change.


Gene
 

This is off by default in modern e-mail programs.  I believe even Outlook Express has it off by default.  I'm not sure where the setting is in Outlook Express but when you find it, you should see something like this:
Block images and other external content in HTML e-mail.  In Windows Live Mail, this is a check box.  
 
If this setting is on, I don't know if a server is querried at all but you are protected from such harmful content.
 
Gene
----- Original amessage -----

Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2019 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?

Weeeell, its all down to how you use the system is it not? If you have never
been sighted ten I find most have it on as its easier, but if like me you
were sighted once having each on a new line can be confusing. It really
depends on how well the page was designed though. Some leave no space
between them and this can be fiddly to get to work out which combo box or
whatever active control it is, is in play.
Another annoyance is that often sites mix normal combos with the ones that
will jump out as soon as you start to change them. of course you can get
around this with pressing extra keys as you cursor, but its bad design.
 On the issue of licence accepting. this is an ongoing issue both online and
in some installers. I find often one has to resort to  screen navigation to
find the individual buttons for accept and not accept.
 Another bit of bad design.
 My current annoyance is Capchars with pictures, but that is a whole other
subject so I will not talk about it here. Its bad enough that forums seem to
not use headers or other easy to navigate devices these days which makes
them almost unusable if you want to use them quickly.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre Fisher" <andrefisher729@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Combo Boxes, Agreements?


Hi.

One would argue though, that separating links and other controls on their
own line is a feature rather than how a screen reader (which should try and
lay out elements on a page similarly to how a sighted person sees it) should
operate. Persons that normally advocate for this change are previous users
of other screen readers, but I doubt that is enough to justify the change.