Date
1 - 9 of 9
struggling to use a UK Civil service test
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Hi all,
I have applied for a job in the UK Civil Service and I have until 10th July to complete a short Situational Judgement Test. There is a website to practice the types of things that the test will cover, so I thought I'd try it out before I take the actual test ... and I'm glad I did. I find its selection controls very hard to use with NVDA. This is the website, and if the link gets curtailed by the NVDA group system, just search for Civil Service Situational Judgement Test. http://csr.apolloassessment.adc.uk.com/openlink/practice/ There are a few presses of the Next button before the first set of questions starts, but when you get there the first set are how the applicant behaves in the work environment. The first time I went through this first test I found it possible to select the answers I wanted, but now I'm struggling. It seems like once I've selected one response I can'access another question nor the Next button to proceed. Then, when I did get through that first set of questions, the second was also difficult to navigate. In the second set it gives you four questions to answer relating to a specific situation. The applicant needs to choose how an action would be, from contradictory to effective. Once I'd selected a response to one question I didn't seem to be able to continue to the next one. The response buttons are not identified by NVDA as buttons or radio buttons, but rather are spoken as "dialogue". I tried using object navigation rather than tabbing through the controls, but using object navigation I lose the prompts as to what the value I'm selecting is. It'll probably take 10 minutes to have a play around with this, but if anyone has the time I'd love to hear what you think of the assessment test and if you find a way to complete it. annoyingly the Civil Service Recruitment site doesn't have a contact email or phone number relating to the vacancy or to the "reasonable adjustments" I requested when I applied for the job. Thanks in advance, Giles |
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All of the "multiple choice" options are presented as, and announced as being, radio buttons. Using the r quick navigation shortcut I can cycle through each and every choice. If I need to go back SHIFT+R runs through the radio buttons in reverse. I then use the b quick navigation shortcut to go straight to the back, then next, button to move along to the next question.
When I get to the section with videos, things get a bit trickier after the video as there are clusters of scenario statements each of which is followed by a group of radio buttons with answers that gauge your feeling about what the statement said. I had to occasionally do some switching between conventional navigation and object navigation when I needed to go back a bit, particularly from the radio buttons to the scenario statement, and I could get the statement to read with num pad +. You also find that there are times when you somehow get into focus mode on those radio buttons, and then quick navigation doesn't work until you hit NVDA+Space to toggle back into browse mode. I didn't go all the way to the end, but just through the first section and first video. They seem to be fairly consistent in using buttons for primary controls and radio buttons for multiple choices. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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thanks, Brian. I'll try again and see if I can get through it using your advice :)
Giles |
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Gene
First, you didn't say what browser you are
using. It is essential to give such information when asking about web site
accessibility problems. I'm testing with an older version of Chrome but I
suspect my new Chrome, on a different computer, will work the same way.
When discussing how you work with the form, you
didn't mention turning browse mode off and on and experimenting. Take the
first question. When I read it, I see five items that say dialog. To
read them, I go to the top of the page, turn browse mode off, NVDA key space
bar, than start tabbing. Every radio button is read and also the
descriptive text.
They are radio buttons but are somehow shown as dialogs,
every one. How do you move through a dialog in general? You
tab. Turning off browse mode allows you to tab as you would in a dialog on
this site. There are times I get better results leaving browse mode on in
web site dialogs and times I get better results turning it off. And even
if there wasn't that hint of saying dialog, I would have still tested in the
same way. You just need to try everything that might possibly apply, and
that includes turning off browse mode manually when solving problems as a means
of experimenting. Its tricky with the video
section. You may not be in the right place as you switch between browse
mode on and off. To be sure you are working with the correct items, do the
following:
View the video or read the
transcript.
With browse mode on, go to the
top of the page and pres b to move to the first button on the page.
Turn browse mode off. You
will be on that button. Tab until you get to and work with the radio
buttons.
Then go into browse mode again,
and look at the next proposed action.
Then move to the top of the page
and type b again. This will always mean you are starting at the same place
when looking through the choices.
Turn browse mode off.
Tab to the first choice.
It is ineffective. That is the first choice for the first action.
You already answered that one. So tab until you get to ineffective
again. That is the first choice for the second action, which you are
working with now. It is very important to know what the first choice is in
a situation like this so you can keep track of where you are as you
move.
Follow the same pattern for the
other question.
Make sure things work as I
describe with whatever browser you are using. If they don't, you may find
how to work with the items by experimenting with browse mode on and
off..
Gene
----- Original Message
----- From: Giles Turnbull
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 2:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] struggling to use a UK Civil service
test I have applied for a job in the UK Civil Service and I have until 10th July to complete a short Situational Judgement Test. There is a website to practice the types of things that the test will cover, so I thought I'd try it out before I take the actual test ... and I'm glad I did. I find its selection controls very hard to use with NVDA. This is the website, and if the link gets curtailed by the NVDA group system, just search for Civil Service Situational Judgement Test. http://csr.apolloassessment.adc.uk.com/openlink/practice/ There are a few presses of the Next button before the first set of questions starts, but when you get there the first set are how the applicant behaves in the work environment. The first time I went through this first test I found it possible to select the answers I wanted, but now I'm struggling. It seems like once I've selected one response I can'access another question nor the Next button to proceed. Then, when I did get through that first set of questions, the second was also difficult to navigate. In the second set it gives you four questions to answer relating to a specific situation. The applicant needs to choose how an action would be, from contradictory to effective. Once I'd selected a response to one question I didn't seem to be able to continue to the next one. The response buttons are not identified by NVDA as buttons or radio buttons, but rather are spoken as "dialogue". I tried using object navigation rather than tabbing through the controls, but using object navigation I lose the prompts as to what the value I'm selecting is. It'll probably take 10 minutes to have a play around with this, but if anyone has the time I'd love to hear what you think of the assessment test and if you find a way to complete it. annoyingly the Civil Service Recruitment site doesn't have a contact email or phone number relating to the vacancy or to the "reasonable adjustments" I requested when I applied for the job. Thanks in advance, Giles |
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Hi Gene,
thanks for trying this site. Sorry for forgetting to mention my browser ... I use Firefox and also tried it in Internet Explorer. When you talk about tabbing around the page, the "dialogue" elements don't register as objects to be tabbed through in browse mode and can only be accessed in object navigation, but don't seem to register when a choice has been selected using the num pad keys. I know it hasn't been registered as being selected because I can't activate the next buttoln once I've tried to select an answer to each question. The "dialogue" elements do occasionally get identified by NVDA as radio buttons once the dialogue has been activated in object navigation, but once one question has been answered that way it seems impossible to do the same on the other questions. When the page is loaded for the very first time, pressing r in browse mode identifies no radio buttons and pressing b only finds the previous and (inactive) next button. I am actually less concerned about this now because I contacted Appolo Assessments and they have told me that while they used to run the Civil Service tests for DVLA, the DVLA do not use their systems any more. Whether DVLA's new system is any better in terms of accessibility I have no idea, but I will definitely wait until I have a sighted friend to operate my laptop while I take the test. Thanks again all for trying the test :) Giles |
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Gene
But this problem has implications far beyond this
page. You should have another current browser even if you do use Internet
Explorer for some or many pages that don't work well in firefox. Indeed,
its better to use Internet explorer as your third choice. Internet
Explorer doesn't get any updates but security updates. It is
technologically years out of date and web sites don't test with it
anymore. The head of Homeland Security in america has asked people
not to use it. Chrome isn't harder to use than the browsers you are
using. There are some differences to learn but there isn't that
much.
Also, you talked about the controls not changing
their state when using screen review controls. I don't know what you did
so I can't comment on the specifics. You may have done this but the first
thing to have done, since these aren't standard radio buttons would be to press
the space bar on them in whatever modes you can work with them, that is, with
browse mode on or off. In this case, since they don't read properly with
browse mode on, the space bar should be tried with browse mode off.
There are times when using screen review or screen
review with the mouse is necessary but it is better to try from the keyboard
procedures first.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Giles Turnbull Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] struggling to use a UK Civil service
test thanks for trying this site. Sorry for forgetting to mention my browser ... I use Firefox and also tried it in Internet Explorer. When you talk about tabbing around the page, the "dialogue" elements don't register as objects to be tabbed through in browse mode and can only be accessed in object navigation, but don't seem to register when a choice has been selected using the num pad keys. I know it hasn't been registered as being selected because I can't activate the next buttoln once I've tried to select an answer to each question. The "dialogue" elements do occasionally get identified by NVDA as radio buttons once the dialogue has been activated in object navigation, but once one question has been answered that way it seems impossible to do the same on the other questions. When the page is loaded for the very first time, pressing r in browse mode identifies no radio buttons and pressing b only finds the previous and (inactive) next button. I am actually less concerned about this now because I contacted Appolo Assessments and they have told me that while they used to run the Civil Service tests for DVLA, the DVLA do not use their systems any more. Whether DVLA's new system is any better in terms of accessibility I have no idea, but I will definitely wait until I have a sighted friend to operate my laptop while I take the test. Thanks again all for trying the test :) Giles |
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For the record, I was using Chrome. And I never had anything announced with the term "dialog."
My guess is that some of this has directly to do with what the browser itself exposes to the screen reader. It's also one of the reasons I constantly encourage my students to develop a proficiency with multiple web browsers and at least two screen readers (even if the proficiency with one is basic and the other advanced). -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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Gene
I saw Brian's comment about not seeing
dialogs. I checked with the current version of Chrome and Chrome saw the
radio buttons correctly. The site worked correctly with the browser.
I didn't think using an older version of Chrome would be likely to matter but it
did. So in future, I'll check with the current version. This is an
illustration of why it is important to have at least two current browsers.
Internet Explorer may work better on certain pages but two current browsers,
such as Chrome and Firefox, should be available to demanding blind Internet
users.
My version of firefox is one version, as I recall,
behind the current version. I almost never use it. But it was even
worse working with the site than the rather old Chrome was.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] struggling to use a UK Civil service
test But this problem has implications far beyond this
page. You should have another current browser even if you do use Internet
Explorer for some or many pages that don't work well in firefox. Indeed,
its better to use Internet explorer as your third choice. Internet
Explorer doesn't get any updates but security updates. It is
technologically years out of date and web sites don't test with it
anymore. The head of Homeland Security in america has asked people
not to use it. Chrome isn't harder to use than the browsers you are
using. There are some differences to learn but there isn't that
much.
Also, you talked about the controls not changing
their state when using screen review controls. I don't know what you did
so I can't comment on the specifics. You may have done this but the first
thing to have done, since these aren't standard radio buttons would be to press
the space bar on them in whatever modes you can work with them, that is, with
browse mode on or off. In this case, since they don't read properly with
browse mode on, the space bar should be tried with browse mode off.
There are times when using screen review or screen
review with the mouse is necessary but it is better to try from the keyboard
procedures first.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Giles Turnbull Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] struggling to use a UK Civil service
test thanks for trying this site. Sorry for forgetting to mention my browser ... I use Firefox and also tried it in Internet Explorer. When you talk about tabbing around the page, the "dialogue" elements don't register as objects to be tabbed through in browse mode and can only be accessed in object navigation, but don't seem to register when a choice has been selected using the num pad keys. I know it hasn't been registered as being selected because I can't activate the next buttoln once I've tried to select an answer to each question. The "dialogue" elements do occasionally get identified by NVDA as radio buttons once the dialogue has been activated in object navigation, but once one question has been answered that way it seems impossible to do the same on the other questions. When the page is loaded for the very first time, pressing r in browse mode identifies no radio buttons and pressing b only finds the previous and (inactive) next button. I am actually less concerned about this now because I contacted Appolo Assessments and they have told me that while they used to run the Civil Service tests for DVLA, the DVLA do not use their systems any more. Whether DVLA's new system is any better in terms of accessibility I have no idea, but I will definitely wait until I have a sighted friend to operate my laptop while I take the test. Thanks again all for trying the test :) Giles |
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On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 11:01 AM, Gene wrote:
Internet Explorer may work better on certain pagesMy observation, as time has gone by, is that this is very, very seldom the case except on sites that have not changed in ages and that use old MS-specific extensions in their HTML coding. My general advice is to use IE as a very last resort with any webpage, as it is the most likely to have problems with those following current coding practice. As you previously noted, the only updates IE has been receiving for some time now are security updates, and that's woefully insufficient for keeping a fully functioning web browser. There are some sites that will not even "allow entrance" if they detect IE is the browser and tell you directly to try with a different browser. I also, as general advice, tell everyone to keep all their software updated to the latest version. There will always be occasional troubles, whether you keep older versions or update to newer ones, but the problems with current ones will be examined and fixed much more rapidly than older versions, which may never get fixed at all. Sometimes it takes working with several browsers to determine whether the fault lies with the page, the browser, or the screen reader. It's generally one from that list. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 The color of truth is grey. ~ André Gide
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