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In-Process 5th July
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Quentin Christensen
Hi everyone, NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area, all in this week's In-Process! Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone :) Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available! Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Quentin,
Once more, congratulations for a very
well written post!
I'd specially recommend everyone to read this one because it deals with a topic well discussed on this list a few days ago :) Without spoilers that's all I'll say. Cheers, Marcio AKA Starboy Sent from a galaxy far, far away. --Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more! |
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Don H
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On 7/5/2019 11:22 AM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Quentin, |
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Don,
If I go toYikes, I can't see it, either. Anyway, you can read it going to this link. Happy reading! Cheers, Marcio AKA Starboy Sent from a galaxy far, far away. --Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more! |
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Quentin Christensen
Whoops! I forgot to mark it as being an In-Process post, thanks for picking that up! I've fixed it now so it should be visible from https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/ as well as the direct link to the post which is: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-5th-july/ Kind regards Quentin. On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 3:53 AM Marcio via Groups.Io <marcinhorj21=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available! Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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hurrikennyandopo ...
Hi Quentin
I just read the updated sections for the corporate/Government section.
I think they will answer most of the questions they might ask. I sent the updated sections or actually the link to the page to a couple of people who run large networks to see what sort of feedback may come back. but I think from what i see does the trick. some of the updated sections I did not know you could do that so am guessing the same for them.
I guess it is a balancing act for security etc.
Gene nz
On 5/07/2019 4:56 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related materials at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
To find out which library networks in New Zealand have a copy of the NVDA screen reader on them and there library locations please go to http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nz%20libraries%20with%20nvda.html To find a NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam. |
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Quentin Christensen
Thanks Gene, We have had a few inquiries recently from banks and the like, which prompted me to add the extra info in. It is my intention to keep updating the information in various sections of the site to keep them up to date, or relevant to what people want to know. As always, do please let me know if you have any feedback, or get any thoughts from the people you sent the link to. Kind regards Quentin. On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 5:56 PM hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available! Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Gene
I finally looked at some of the July 5 In Process
newsletter. Your discussion of how to work with the systemm tray contains
an important error.
The article says:
Once on an icon, there are two ways to interact
with it:
1) Press ENTER or SPACEBAR to activate it (this is the same as clicking on it with the left mouse ... and you then discuss using the context key as
equivalent to right clicking.
Enter and space bar are not identical. Enter
is double left click. Space bar is single left click. The difference
is important. Some icons won't function properly if you double left click
where you should single left click, or visa versa. that is why the system
tray dialog has both a double left click and a single left click
button.
Aside from this needing prominent correction, and
the next In Process Newsletter should announce that the correction is in that
issue in the introductory paragraph, it demonstrates my point.
It is just not remotely acceptable for instructions
for using the system tray not to be in the user's manual. The error
demonstrates how widespread inaccurate information is or no information, because
most people don't know anything about how to use it.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July Hi everyone,
NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon
and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area,
all in this week's In-Process! Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone
:)
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Gene
I should correct my last message. You say in
older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and
single left click. That is true. You may be right about Windows 10
only having two ways of working with the system tray icons. If so, then I
was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.
But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that
disprove your Windows 10 statement implies.
I can give you one specific instance that differs
in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10. The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and
enter. The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the
technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is
used.
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use
enter but it doesn't work properly. As I recall a network flyout message
is received.
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is
identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I
withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect. But even
if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be
stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July Hi everyone,
NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon
and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area,
all in this week's In-Process! Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone
:)
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Luke Davis
I believe that was my fault. I asked him to make that section more clear, and may have suggested the text in error there, or some variation.
Not sure if I was trying to simplify the explanation, or just forgot in the moment to specify the difference. Sorry Quentin. Luke |
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Gene
These are probably my final comments about the
system tray unless new information comes up.
The article doesn't state that first letter
navigation can be used in navigating the system tray. Also, the article
says that the system tray window available for early versions of Windows is no
longer needed. It is a dialog that the screen-reader displays. Aside
from that clarification, I and two others in the discussion that occurred not
too long ago, said that there are on occasion, icons that can't be activated by
using the system tray with keyboard commands directly. NVDA developers
should stop discounting the system tray dialog. There are cases where it
gives better access. Such comments should not be made. Even if there
are a very few such icons, it may be more convenient for some users to use the
system tray dialog, available as an add-on.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July I should correct my last message. You say in
older versions of Windows there is a distinction between double left click and
single left click. That is true. You may be right about Windows 10
only having two ways of working with the system tray icons. If so, then I
was wrong in my last message where I said you gave incorrect information.
But this needs to be carefully checked, as your request for examples that
disprove your Windows 10 statement implies.
I can give you one specific instance that differs
in Windows 7 and that you can test in Windows 10. The following icon in Windows 7 distinguishes between space and
enter. The network icon, or connection icon, I'm not sure what the
technical name is, only works properly if left single click, space bar, is
used.
I'm not sure exactly what happens when you use
enter but it doesn't work properly. As I recall a network flyout message
is received.
If this is tested in Windows 10 and the reaction is
identical between enter and space and if no one else reports any differences, I
withdraw my suspicions that the Windows description is incorrect. But even
if only one or two icons still distinguish between these commands, it should be
stated without the qualification about earlier versions of Windows.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: [nvda] In-Process 5th July Hi everyone,
NVDA 2019.2 Beta 2, Mick taking a well-deserved break, updates to NVDACon
and our Corporate page and details on accessing the Windows notification area,
all in this week's In-Process! Happy 4th of July to those in America, and happy weekend to everyone
:)
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Quentin Christensen
Gene, Thanks for your input. I can't remember the exact wording Luke proposed, but it certainly got me thinking about your previous remarks on this issue. We also asked Microsoft Accessibility, and their response (as per https://twitter.com/MSFTEnable/status/1148296440931868673 ) was: "In the notification area these ...(enter and spacebar)... can be used interchangeably. You can also use the application key or shift+f10 to open the context menu with additional options." I think there's also a fine line between providing every possible option to cover every possible scenario, and giving the average user too much information at once. Re your specific example of the network icon, my Windows 7 machine isn't playing nice at the moment, so I'll have to wait to test and see if I can find any other examples myself (I certainly believe you), I can confirm in Windows 10 that the network icon behaves the same when you press ENTER as it does when you press SPACEBAR. If anyone does have any examples of notification area icons which behave differently between pressing space and enter. Also, any examples of icons which won't work with the keyboard are useful to be aware of as well. Kind regards Quentin. On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available! Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Sylvie Duchateau
Hello Quentin, Gene and all, Quentin, with windows 10 I have the same behavior as you have regarding the network icon, spacebar and enter work the same. In some situations, such as my nextcloud or 1PASSWord icon, spacebar or enter does not do anything. The only way to access options is using the context menu key or shift=F10. I hope this helps. Best Sylvie Le 25/07/2019 à 12:43, Quentin Christensen a écrit :
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Rui Fontes
Hello!
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QTranslate icon with space bar does nothing and with Enter opens the QTranslate main window. Rui Fontes Às 11:43 de 25/07/2019, Quentin Christensen escreveu: Gene, |
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Ron Canazzi
Hi Gene,
On my Windows 10 1903 version, without using the hotkey to display system tray icons, pressing enter or space bar has the same result. It opens the Network Connections window. On 7/25/2019 5:08 AM, Gene wrote:
-- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!" |
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Gene
There is a difference between giving too much
information and giving inaccurate information in the name of simplicity.
There are times, and I saw one person report one after you sent your message
where space and enter work differently. Saying that usually enter and
space bar do the same thing is, evidently, accurate. Implying or saying
that they always do isn't. It isn't too much information to say that enter
and space bar usually do the same thing but not always and telling people to try
both if one doesn't work.
The statement concerning the
dialog as no longer being needed, or however it is stated is factually
incorrect. There are times, rare times, but times, where the dialog works
where the system tray directly doesn't, and where the system tray works where
the dialog doesn't.
They may be rare, but they
exist. It is better not to say anything about the system tray dialog no
longer being needed. That would avoid a factually incorrect
statement. it would be far better to say that rarely, one works where the
other doesn't when using keyboard commands but that it is generally a matter of
preference which is used and that the dialog can be added to NVDA as an
add-on.
Gene
----- Original Message
----- From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process 5th July Gene,
Thanks for your input. I can't remember the exact wording Luke
proposed, but it certainly got me thinking about your previous remarks on this
issue. We also asked Microsoft Accessibility, and their response (as
per https://twitter.com/MSFTEnable/status/1148296440931868673
) was: "In the notification area these ...(enter and spacebar)... can be used
interchangeably. You can also use the application key or shift+f10 to open the
context menu with additional options."
I think there's also a fine line between providing every possible option to
cover every possible scenario, and giving the average user too much information
at once.
Re your specific example of the network icon, my Windows 7 machine isn't
playing nice at the moment, so I'll have to wait to test and see if I can find
any other examples myself (I certainly believe you), I can confirm in Windows 10
that the network icon behaves the same when you press ENTER as it does when you
press SPACEBAR.
If anyone does have any examples of notification area icons which behave
differently between pressing space and enter. Also, any examples of icons
which won't work with the keyboard are useful to be aware of as well.
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:46 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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