Code Factory add-in for NVDA


Ed Marquette
 

All:
If you work in a corporate or professional environment, beware of the Code Factory Eloquence/Vocalizer add-on for NVDA.
I happily purchased and installed the product on my home laptop, a Lenovo Yoga (1st generation).
Similarly, back in May, I installed and, after a little trouble, activated the product on my office Lenovo Yoga (2nd generation).
Beginning on June 17, with my new office Lenovo Yoga (3rd generation) machine, activation is impossible without administrator status, a status in the corporate world reserved by those in the IT departments of the world who know the secret handshake. OK. I’m being a little sarcastic.
Well, the activation routine in the product (which had earlier worked with the old machine) claimed there was an Internet connection error. Therefore, activation was impossible.
I should also mention that my new Yoga came with a new desktop sporting the last 2018 Windows update and Office 365.
After IT and Code Factory exchanged messages, Code Factory furnished the identity of the port that in the firewall that had to be opened up for activation.
That port was activated, but the problem persisted.
We shared with Code Factory that we were out of ideas. Technical support at Code Factory said it was out of ideas too. There was no apology, no offer of a refund, and no expression of regret.
Our IT people has actually discovered that the installation can be activated if the specified port is opened and if activation is by someone with a wide open, so-called 0 administrator account. That wouldn’t be so bad. Our IT personnel then tried to run the add-on without the 0 administrator account . It shut down with the same Internet connection error. The error message is totally bogus.
So, it appears hat an administrator account is needed both to activate and to operate the add-on. I won’t be using the Code Factory add-on. I’m OK with Microsoft David, but I could use something a little more responsive — a voice that doesn’t insist on a strangle hold licensing scheme.


Cristóbal
 

If you by any chance have Kurzweil 1000 installed on your system, then you have access to Eloquence too.
I haven't used K1000 in forever, but thanks to it, I can use Eloquence with NVDA.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ed Marquette
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Code Factory add-in for NVDA



All:
If you work in a corporate or professional environment, beware of the Code Factory Eloquence/Vocalizer add-on for NVDA.
I happily purchased and installed the product on my home laptop, a Lenovo Yoga (1st generation).
Similarly, back in May, I installed and, after a little trouble, activated the product on my office Lenovo Yoga (2nd generation).
Beginning on June 17, with my new office Lenovo Yoga (3rd generation) machine, activation is impossible without administrator status, a status in the corporate world reserved by those in the IT departments of the world who know the secret handshake. OK. I’m being a little sarcastic.
Well, the activation routine in the product (which had earlier worked with the old machine) claimed there was an Internet connection error. Therefore, activation was impossible.
I should also mention that my new Yoga came with a new desktop sporting the last 2018 Windows update and Office 365.
After IT and Code Factory exchanged messages, Code Factory furnished the identity of the port that in the firewall that had to be opened up for activation.
That port was activated, but the problem persisted.
We shared with Code Factory that we were out of ideas. Technical support at Code Factory said it was out of ideas too. There was no apology, no offer of a refund, and no expression of regret.
Our IT people has actually discovered that the installation can be activated if the specified port is opened and if activation is by someone with a wide open, so-called 0 administrator account. That wouldn’t be so bad. Our IT personnel then tried to run the add-on without the 0 administrator account . It shut down with the same Internet connection error. The error message is totally bogus.
So, it appears hat an administrator account is needed both to activate and to operate the add-on. I won’t be using the Code Factory add-on. I’m OK with Microsoft David, but I could use something a little more responsive — a voice that doesn’t insist on a strangle hold licensing scheme.


Perry Simm
 

Hi!
Take a perfectly good speech synth, slap a buggy interface onto it, strap the whole thing down with a stranglehold license, and that's what you get. In one word: Broken.
Cheers Perry


Josh Kennedy
 

well, if the old decTalk access32 for windows95, and the softVoice-willowpond tts are indeed abandonware, if this can be confirmed, then, perhaps you could use one or both of those with NVDA? I emailed the author of softVoice-tts and have heard nothing back. It seems as if that website has been abandoned. And the people who claim they sell decTalk have an old copyright on their site which is 6 or so years old, and it does not even support sapi5. So, again, if the old decTalk access32 and the other tts I mentioned are abandonware, perhaps ESpeak could be modified to load their tts-dll files and those two older voices could be included as a part of ESpeak? Those voices also have their own phonemes, pitches, ways of speaking. So all ESpeak and ESpeak sapi5 would need to do is load, and use, the 24-year-old possiby abandoned decTalk and softVoice-tts dll files, and register and use the voices and/or languages they come with. the last time I heard from the author of softVoice-tts several years ago, he said he did not care if we used softVoice with screen readers. nobody uses it or wants to buy it anymore anyway. 


Josh Kennedy
 

It, as I understand, is not codeFactory's fault. It is Nuance, the people who bought eloquence when the other smaller companies folded or went under, it is Nuance who says to codeFactory, you can make and sell eloquence as sapi5, for android, for NVDA, but you must agree to our (Nuance's) terms and licenses and license schemes. So CodeFactory has no choice but to impose those restrictive licenses on us. If you really want to get your copy of eloquence running on your work machine, I recommend getting in touch with Nuance about how to activate it on the company or corporate computer you wish to use it on. Because Nuance probably knows how to get that accomplished moreSo than codeFactory does. Because codeFactory is just the company which packages eloquence in particular ways in order to sell it in the forms, NVDA-addon, sapi5, android version, that the end-user wish to use it on. 

Josh


Josh Kennedy
 

In the meantime, though, if you want a voice that is responsive and sounds a bit like eloquence, why not use nv-speech-player, it is free and is on the NVDA extra voices website. 

Josh


Gene
 

I doubt that copyrights have to specifically assert copyright for every version of the software that exists.  The SAPI version uses Dectalk as the synthesizer used.  SAPI is a means of communicating with Windows, it is not the software itself.  A patent holder on the transistor doesn't have to patent every product transistors are used in.  You are making an equivalent claim.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory add-in for NVDA

well, if the old decTalk access32 for windows95, and the softVoice-willowpond tts are indeed abandonware, if this can be confirmed, then, perhaps you could use one or both of those with NVDA? I emailed the author of softVoice-tts and have heard nothing back. It seems as if that website has been abandoned. And the people who claim they sell decTalk have an old copyright on their site which is 6 or so years old, and it does not even support sapi5. So, again, if the old decTalk access32 and the other tts I mentioned are abandonware, perhaps ESpeak could be modified to load their tts-dll files and those two older voices could be included as a part of ESpeak? Those voices also have their own phonemes, pitches, ways of speaking. So all ESpeak and ESpeak sapi5 would need to do is load, and use, the 24-year-old possiby abandoned decTalk and softVoice-tts dll files, and register and use the voices and/or languages they come with. the last time I heard from the author of softVoice-tts several years ago, he said he did not care if we used softVoice with screen readers. nobody uses it or wants to buy it anymore anyway. 


 

I'm not a fan of using abandond software with nvda or windows.

Firstly, assuming that its sapi4, how long will it be before microsoft makes that all go away.

Even if it is, who knows if it will install.

I used to use old vocaliser from xp for 7, and while I could use it, I couldn't remove it without a reformat.

I have had software screw up my speech settings which had incompatability issues and needed a reformat to fix.

I have also had software install, but not be workable, and stuff up a system requiring a reformat to fix it.

This in the end lead after 20 reformats of the same computer to abandon the software perminantly.

Some of this stuff was for win3.1 and could be 16 bit.



On 19/07/2019 2:40 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
well, if the old decTalk access32 for windows95, and the softVoice-willowpond tts are indeed abandonware, if this can be confirmed, then, perhaps you could use one or both of those with NVDA? I emailed the author of softVoice-tts and have heard nothing back. It seems as if that website has been abandoned. And the people who claim they sell decTalk have an old copyright on their site which is 6 or so years old, and it does not even support sapi5. So, again, if the old decTalk access32 and the other tts I mentioned are abandonware, perhaps ESpeak could be modified to load their tts-dll files and those two older voices could be included as a part of ESpeak? Those voices also have their own phonemes, pitches, ways of speaking. So all ESpeak and ESpeak sapi5 would need to do is load, and use, the 24-year-old possiby abandoned decTalk and softVoice-tts dll files, and register and use the voices and/or languages they come with. the last time I heard from the author of softVoice-tts several years ago, he said he did not care if we used softVoice with screen readers. nobody uses it or wants to buy it anymore anyway. 


Ed Marquette
 

Gene and Josh:

Thanks for all your suggestions.  I’m not finished with Code Factory yet.  I just wanted to serve up a warning.  I will try one of the suggested voices, though I don’t think our IT Department would go along with an obsolete product.  That may be just the thing for others.
On the copyright issue, Gene is correct that not every build or revision to a computer program is (or needs to be) registered.  Actually copyright comes into existence, in the U.S. and in most countries, when the work is first fixed in a tangible medium.  Registration is actually optional, though the Supreme Court held this spring that one must have a copyright registration certificate in-hand before filing suit for infringement.  
One, however, cannot properly compare patent law and copyright law.  Patent law gives the patent holder the right to exclude all others from “making, selling, and using” the invention.  Copyright, by contrast, gives the copyright holder the exclusive right to reproduce, distribute, modify (make derivative works), publicly display, and publicly perform the copyrighted work.  Well, I hope most people stopped reading well before eating to this point, and I suspect we’ve strayed off topic.
  


On Jul 18, 2019, at 12:11 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I doubt that copyrights have to specifically assert copyright for every version of the software that exists.  The SAPI version uses Dectalk as the synthesizer used.  SAPI is a means of communicating with Windows, it is not the software itself.  A patent holder on the transistor doesn't have to patent every product transistors are used in.  You are making an equivalent claim.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2019 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory add-in for NVDA

well, if the old decTalk access32 for windows95, and the softVoice-willowpond tts are indeed abandonware, if this can be confirmed, then, perhaps you could use one or both of those with NVDA? I emailed the author of softVoice-tts and have heard nothing back. It seems as if that website has been abandoned. And the people who claim they sell decTalk have an old copyright on their site which is 6 or so years old, and it does not even support sapi5. So, again, if the old decTalk access32 and the other tts I mentioned are abandonware, perhaps ESpeak could be modified to load their tts-dll files and those two older voices could be included as a part of ESpeak? Those voices also have their own phonemes, pitches, ways of speaking. So all ESpeak and ESpeak sapi5 would need to do is load, and use, the 24-year-old possiby abandoned decTalk and softVoice-tts dll files, and register and use the voices and/or languages they come with. the last time I heard from the author of softVoice-tts several years ago, he said he did not care if we used softVoice with screen readers. nobody uses it or wants to buy it anymore anyway. 


Josh Kennedy
 

hi ed and all,
I agree. a company should not put use-at-your-own-risk abandonware that could possibly be buggy onto their system, such as the sketchy legality of the decTalk addon that uses a 24-year-old decTalk synthesizer. If you want to use it for personal noncommercial use well that is your business. But if I were a company I would insist on software that 1. has support along with it, and 2. is up-to-date and secure. Now I do have the following issues with both sapi5 codeFactory eloquence and the codeFactory addon that is purchased. those issues are the following... 1. people reported the nvda-addon is crackly sometimes, sapi5 eloquence works fine however. 2. I really really want the ability to log onto a website and put in the key into an edit box, and reset my keys back to 3, this would unregister all copies of my software and would let me move my software to a new computer. What if my computer dies and there is an eloquence addon or sapi5 key on it? just let me go to a site, put in the key I wish to deactivate and reset my number of keys back to 3 or whatever the limit is, deactivating all coppies of the software therefore letting me install a copy or two onto new computers. and lastly. eloquence should only phone home maybe once every 60 or so days. That way people with infrequent internet access would not have as big of an issue with its phone home stuff. other than that I really like the sapi5 eloquence and it works fine. and I will use my copy of sapi5 eloquence as long as codeFactory supports it. In fact I'm thinking of buying their sapi5 vocalizer. I prefer sapi5 that way I can use the voices with audio games and other stuff and it is not tied down to NVDA. 


Josh Kennedy
 

I also wish we could get some confirmation about decTalk since it, too, is, or was, very popular. There is nothing wrong with the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll files. they work fine aside from some bugs in the nvda-addon code, they work just fine with NVDA. I wish that we could 1. get official confirmation that is it abandonware, or is it not abandonware and can we use the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll which is still perfectly fine with NVDA? 2. if somebody would give us permission to use that dll, which by the way again works perfectly fine, then once we have permission, we could incorporate it into NVDA as an alternative to ESpeak for english and maybe some other languages, same goes for willowPond softVoice tts, by the way... so anyway once we get confirmation, they could be incorporated into NVDA so people have some alternative voices. and also perhaps the voices could be given sapi5 interfaces for those who wish to use them in that form. oh better yet, if NVDA could sell decTalk nvda-addon and softVoice tts addon, decTalk sapi5 with a good non-buggy interface and softVoice tts sapi5 again with a good stable interface. I personally would gladly pay $10 to $20 or so for updated versions of those two tts engines. better yet would be if the authors just said well just go ahead and incorporate them into NVDA as voices or as voices on the extra-voices download website. 
Josh


 

Well the last was from enablerehab saying pay what you want, they need to send at least 50 cents to phonics because of their licences.

Now saying that that was for sapi.

As for the old dectalk, I usually wouldn't but it sounds like no one really cares that much.

Obviously if someone sold the entire load they probably would make something about it but its almost like, its to old for us to give a damn about as such.
To be honest the sapi dectalk wasn't perfect with volume dropouts on some voices I don't even use it anymore.

However if someone were to well distribute it, as long as no one brought it or payed cash, I don't think people would care that much.

Of course my communications with the deal were ages ago maybe if to many wanted it who knows.

Dectalk like eloquence are not really where we should be going as it is though.

Now don't get me wrong, they had their day, and their place.

In their day they were the best of the best.

I mean hawking used the thing.

Here's the thing.

I tried a 16 bit version of eloquence on my phone and it was total crap!

Theory is it was never designed to be upsampled.

Next eloquence and dectalk are utter crap.

Its not their fault.

I mean how much can you get out of a simple speaker with a few hardware chips without the voice quality and size we have now?

I mean they like the old keynotes were the king of the castle and were there for a number of years.

And as an old timer I respect the past.

I still use it on my old phone.

However their time may be about done.



On 20/07/2019 12:10 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
I also wish we could get some confirmation about decTalk since it, too, is, or was, very popular. There is nothing wrong with the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll files. they work fine aside from some bugs in the nvda-addon code, they work just fine with NVDA. I wish that we could 1. get official confirmation that is it abandonware, or is it not abandonware and can we use the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll which is still perfectly fine with NVDA? 2. if somebody would give us permission to use that dll, which by the way again works perfectly fine, then once we have permission, we could incorporate it into NVDA as an alternative to ESpeak for english and maybe some other languages, same goes for willowPond softVoice tts, by the way... so anyway once we get confirmation, they could be incorporated into NVDA so people have some alternative voices. and also perhaps the voices could be given sapi5 interfaces for those who wish to use them in that form. oh better yet, if NVDA could sell decTalk nvda-addon and softVoice tts addon, decTalk sapi5 with a good non-buggy interface and softVoice tts sapi5 again with a good stable interface. I personally would gladly pay $10 to $20 or so for updated versions of those two tts engines. better yet would be if the authors just said well just go ahead and incorporate them into NVDA as voices or as voices on the extra-voices download website. 
Josh


molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi

I once had eloquence on my Android phone too. However it did not work very well and it cost $20. But the vocalizer voices are all right. Sadly I don’t have them on my Windows devices anymore.  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 3:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory add-in for NVDA

 

Well the last was from enablerehab saying pay what you want, they need to send at least 50 cents to phonics because of their licences.

Now saying that that was for sapi.

As for the old dectalk, I usually wouldn't but it sounds like no one really cares that much.

Obviously if someone sold the entire load they probably would make something about it but its almost like, its to old for us to give a damn about as such.
To be honest the sapi dectalk wasn't perfect with volume dropouts on some voices I don't even use it anymore.

However if someone were to well distribute it, as long as no one brought it or payed cash, I don't think people would care that much.

Of course my communications with the deal were ages ago maybe if to many wanted it who knows.

Dectalk like eloquence are not really where we should be going as it is though.

Now don't get me wrong, they had their day, and their place.

In their day they were the best of the best.

I mean hawking used the thing.

Here's the thing.

I tried a 16 bit version of eloquence on my phone and it was total crap!

Theory is it was never designed to be upsampled.

Next eloquence and dectalk are utter crap.

Its not their fault.

I mean how much can you get out of a simple speaker with a few hardware chips without the voice quality and size we have now?

I mean they like the old keynotes were the king of the castle and were there for a number of years.

And as an old timer I respect the past.

I still use it on my old phone.

However their time may be about done.

 

 

On 20/07/2019 12:10 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I also wish we could get some confirmation about decTalk since it, too, is, or was, very popular. There is nothing wrong with the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll files. they work fine aside from some bugs in the nvda-addon code, they work just fine with NVDA. I wish that we could 1. get official confirmation that is it abandonware, or is it not abandonware and can we use the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll which is still perfectly fine with NVDA? 2. if somebody would give us permission to use that dll, which by the way again works perfectly fine, then once we have permission, we could incorporate it into NVDA as an alternative to ESpeak for english and maybe some other languages, same goes for willowPond softVoice tts, by the way... so anyway once we get confirmation, they could be incorporated into NVDA so people have some alternative voices. and also perhaps the voices could be given sapi5 interfaces for those who wish to use them in that form. oh better yet, if NVDA could sell decTalk nvda-addon and softVoice tts addon, decTalk sapi5 with a good non-buggy interface and softVoice tts sapi5 again with a good stable interface. I personally would gladly pay $10 to $20 or so for updated versions of those two tts engines. better yet would be if the authors just said well just go ahead and incorporate them into NVDA as voices or as voices on the extra-voices download website. 
Josh


 

For 60 us you can use the expressive ones from code factory, its all done in a program off the cloud, and its a nice package.

Its not the same as older vocalisers but its good enough.



On 20/07/2019 8:24 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:

Hi

I once had eloquence on my Android phone too. However it did not work very well and it cost $20. But the vocalizer voices are all right. Sadly I don’t have them on my Windows devices anymore.  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 3:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory add-in for NVDA

 

Well the last was from enablerehab saying pay what you want, they need to send at least 50 cents to phonics because of their licences.

Now saying that that was for sapi.

As for the old dectalk, I usually wouldn't but it sounds like no one really cares that much.

Obviously if someone sold the entire load they probably would make something about it but its almost like, its to old for us to give a damn about as such.
To be honest the sapi dectalk wasn't perfect with volume dropouts on some voices I don't even use it anymore.

However if someone were to well distribute it, as long as no one brought it or payed cash, I don't think people would care that much.

Of course my communications with the deal were ages ago maybe if to many wanted it who knows.

Dectalk like eloquence are not really where we should be going as it is though.

Now don't get me wrong, they had their day, and their place.

In their day they were the best of the best.

I mean hawking used the thing.

Here's the thing.

I tried a 16 bit version of eloquence on my phone and it was total crap!

Theory is it was never designed to be upsampled.

Next eloquence and dectalk are utter crap.

Its not their fault.

I mean how much can you get out of a simple speaker with a few hardware chips without the voice quality and size we have now?

I mean they like the old keynotes were the king of the castle and were there for a number of years.

And as an old timer I respect the past.

I still use it on my old phone.

However their time may be about done.

 

 

On 20/07/2019 12:10 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I also wish we could get some confirmation about decTalk since it, too, is, or was, very popular. There is nothing wrong with the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll files. they work fine aside from some bugs in the nvda-addon code, they work just fine with NVDA. I wish that we could 1. get official confirmation that is it abandonware, or is it not abandonware and can we use the 24-year-old decTalk access32 dll which is still perfectly fine with NVDA? 2. if somebody would give us permission to use that dll, which by the way again works perfectly fine, then once we have permission, we could incorporate it into NVDA as an alternative to ESpeak for english and maybe some other languages, same goes for willowPond softVoice tts, by the way... so anyway once we get confirmation, they could be incorporated into NVDA so people have some alternative voices. and also perhaps the voices could be given sapi5 interfaces for those who wish to use them in that form. oh better yet, if NVDA could sell decTalk nvda-addon and softVoice tts addon, decTalk sapi5 with a good non-buggy interface and softVoice tts sapi5 again with a good stable interface. I personally would gladly pay $10 to $20 or so for updated versions of those two tts engines. better yet would be if the authors just said well just go ahead and incorporate them into NVDA as voices or as voices on the extra-voices download website. 
Josh


Josh Kennedy
 

I think I will pay the extra money for the sapi5 vocalizer. That way I can use it with my favorite audio-games, and with narrator if needed. As for eloquence, I think it will be around for a good many years to come, just because of how popular it still is. Aside from phoning home every 30 days, the sapi5 eloquence works fine. 


 

I agree, if and when I can I go for sapi5 synths, I can run them outside the reader and I can use them for things other than the screen reader.



On 21/07/2019 1:00 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
I think I will pay the extra money for the sapi5 vocalizer. That way I can use it with my favorite audio-games, and with narrator if needed. As for eloquence, I think it will be around for a good many years to come, just because of how popular it still is. Aside from phoning home every 30 days, the sapi5 eloquence works fine.