Topics

Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Hi,
For testing purposes, I've enabled push notifications for FB on my Firefox.
Now, although I can hear NVDA reporting these notifications, try as I may, I can't for the life of me find a way of interacting with them.
So my question is, once NVDA reports a notification of this kind how do I interact with it?

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Andy B.
 

Hi,

 

Try the Mozilla enhancements addon.

 

 

From: Marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 7:04 AM
To: NVDA List
Subject: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Hi,
For testing purposes, I've enabled push notifications for FB on my Firefox.
Now, although I can hear NVDA reporting these notifications, try as I may, I can't for the life of me find a way of interacting with them.
So my question is, once NVDA reports a notification of this kind how do I interact with it?

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Hi,


Yes, the Mozilla enhancer is a good choice.  You can download it here: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html .  I recommend redading the quick documentation on this page as it will give you more details.


When you receive a notification, NVDA will automatically focus on the notification.  Chances are you'll arrive on "learn more" and if you tab / shift-tab, you'll see the options.  Now, in most cases, options are in a sub-menu, so NVDA might read something like the following:


Facebook would like to access your current location.


Don't allow

Allow (sub menu)


If you press space on the sub-menu, you will be given more options on what to allow.  The same thing might apply to "don't allow" choices.


The NVDA addon for Mozilla just focuses you on the notification.  You could access it without the addon, by pressing shift-tab when at the top of the page, or tab when at the bottom (you might need to do that several times, since the notifications are somewhere near the address bar for us and are not necessarily easy to see, hence the addon).


Finally, with the addon installed, NVDA will focus on notifications when they arrive.  This might not be desired.  You can just press the escape key to go back to the website (your last position will be kept).


Also notice the NVDA+A shortcut which I personally find extremely useful with this addon.


Hope that helps,


Vincent

On 7/19/2019 1:01 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,
For testing purposes, I've enabled push notifications for FB on my Firefox.
Now, although I can hear NVDA reporting these notifications, try as I may, I can't for the life of me find a way of interacting with them.
So my question is, once NVDA reports a notification of this kind how do I interact with it?

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

Vincent and Andy,
Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Ho, good point.  Not a lot of detail can be found on the web though.  So the big question: when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are?  Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?  If so, these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.  If that's the case, I'll comeback with more information on how to handle that.  Further, if that's the case, you should be able to find the shortcut keys, searching for Windows shortcut keys for notifications (there's a Windows + something or other to access the list, nothing specific to NVDA as far as I know).


That being said, it's just a guess.  Facebook could have NVDA dynamically read some messages on the page (though it wouldn't work when you're not on the Facebook website).  These messages may just be ARIA alerts.  If so, interacting with them as notifications should be supported by facebook (and probably isn't), there's no standard to do that.  ARIA alerts are good but not great (for me who use a Braille display as sole accessibility system with NVDA not speaking at all, ARIA alerts are useless).



HTH,


Vincent

On 7/19/2019 2:04 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Vincent and Andy,
Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

Andy B.
 

Windows+a for notifications in Windows 10.

 

 

From: Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 8:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Ho, good point.  Not a lot of detail can be found on the web though.  So the big question: when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are?  Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?  If so, these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.  If that's the case, I'll comeback with more information on how to handle that.  Further, if that's the case, you should be able to find the shortcut keys, searching for Windows shortcut keys for notifications (there's a Windows + something or other to access the list, nothing specific to NVDA as far as I know).

 

That being said, it's just a guess.  Facebook could have NVDA dynamically read some messages on the page (though it wouldn't work when you're not on the Facebook website).  These messages may just be ARIA alerts.  If so, interacting with them as notifications should be supported by facebook (and probably isn't), there's no standard to do that.  ARIA alerts are good but not great (for me who use a Braille display as sole accessibility system with NVDA not speaking at all, ARIA alerts are useless).

 

 

HTH,

 

Vincent

On 7/19/2019 2:04 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Vincent and Andy,

Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

 

Vincent,
when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are? Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?

Yep :) I can just be playing something, listening to a podcast or whatever and I'll get the notification.

these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.
Hmmm, I really don't think they are. I mean, I know about Windows notifications and how to work with them. Windows+A will take me to the notifications centre. Is there any other kind of Windows notification, one that doesn't show up there?

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

Hi,

Actually, Windows+(Shift+)V for toast notifications, and Windows+A for Action Center (I get this sometimes while using Slack, so this is nothing new).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy B.
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 5:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Windows+a for notifications in Windows 10.

 

 

From: Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 8:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

Ho, good point.  Not a lot of detail can be found on the web though.  So the big question: when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are?  Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?  If so, these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.  If that's the case, I'll comeback with more information on how to handle that.  Further, if that's the case, you should be able to find the shortcut keys, searching for Windows shortcut keys for notifications (there's a Windows + something or other to access the list, nothing specific to NVDA as far as I know).

 

That being said, it's just a guess.  Facebook could have NVDA dynamically read some messages on the page (though it wouldn't work when you're not on the Facebook website).  These messages may just be ARIA alerts.  If so, interacting with them as notifications should be supported by facebook (and probably isn't), there's no standard to do that.  ARIA alerts are good but not great (for me who use a Braille display as sole accessibility system with NVDA not speaking at all, ARIA alerts are useless).

 

 

HTH,

 

Vincent

On 7/19/2019 2:04 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:

Vincent and Andy,

Thanks for the suggestion. I know about this add-on and it's indeed quite useful.
However these notifications I'm talking about aren't necessarily something on the browser. It's intended exactly for working outside the sites where they are coming from.
If enabled, notifications from FB, for example, would give us an alert when someone posts something, comments on any of our posts, sends us a message etc. The problem with it, though, is what I've said. NVDA  reports the notification on the desktop but it's apparently nowhere to be found so that we can interact with it, just like these toast ones.

Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Yeah, Windows + A seems to be the way to go (open action center, see notifications).  If they're not here then I'm afraid I don't know at all and haven't been able to find on the net.  It's possible Facebook just pushes notifications to a different system without much accessibility support besides reading.  I guess you already checked the system tray (Windows + B)?  I'm not using these so I just don't know :( .


Sorry to not be able to help,


Vincent

On 7/19/2019 2:48 PM, Marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Vincent,
when Facebook sends notifications, you get a message no matter where you are? Like "new notification from Facebook: ..."?

Yep :) I can just be playing something, listening to a podcast or whatever and I'll get the notification.

these are Windows notifications and there are shortcut keys (I keep forgetting) to interact with them.
Hmmm, I really don't think they are. I mean, I know about Windows notifications and how to work with them. Windows+A will take me to the notifications centre. Is there any other kind of Windows notification, one that doesn't show up there?

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!

 

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 09:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Actually, Windows+(Shift+)V for toast notifications, and Windows+A for Action Center (I get this sometimes while using Slack, so this is nothing new).
And, as a recent topic brought to the fore, if one is using Chrome it's possible to have the browser push those push messages straight over to Windows to be presented as toast notifications, or not.

So one has to know what browser is being used and whether certain features have been configured in certain ways to know for certain how one might directly interact with a push message.

This stuff is getting much more wildly complicated, configuration wise and interaction wise, as new options regarding "who does what, or who passes what to whom" are being created.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

For Firefox users (like myself): having Firefox push notifications to Windows seems to be supported, according to this website that does some advertising of this feature for a version of Firefox that has been released for 6 months, if I'm not mistaken: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/10/08/firefox-gets-native-windows-10-notifications-support/ .


Vincent

On 7/19/2019 4:29 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 09:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Actually, Windows+(Shift+)V for toast notifications, and Windows+A for Action Center (I get this sometimes while using Slack, so this is nothing new).
And, as a recent topic brought to the fore, if one is using Chrome it's possible to have the browser push those push messages straight over to Windows to be presented as toast notifications, or not.

So one has to know what browser is being used and whether certain features have been configured in certain ways to know for certain how one might directly interact with a push message.

This stuff is getting much more wildly complicated, configuration wise and interaction wise, as new options regarding "who does what, or who passes what to whom" are being created.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Andy B.
 

I want my browsing experience as clean as possible. Under no conditions will I approve of an app or website to push notifications through a browser.

 

 

From: Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 10:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Push Notifications With NVDA

 

For Firefox users (like myself): having Firefox push notifications to Windows seems to be supported, according to this website that does some advertising of this feature for a version of Firefox that has been released for 6 months, if I'm not mistaken: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/10/08/firefox-gets-native-windows-10-notifications-support/ .

 

Vincent

On 7/19/2019 4:29 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 09:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Actually, Windows+(Shift+)V for toast notifications, and Windows+A for Action Center (I get this sometimes while using Slack, so this is nothing new).

And, as a recent topic brought to the fore, if one is using Chrome it's possible to have the browser push those push messages straight over to Windows to be presented as toast notifications, or not.

So one has to know what browser is being used and whether certain features have been configured in certain ways to know for certain how one might directly interact with a push message.

This stuff is getting much more wildly complicated, configuration wise and interaction wise, as new options regarding "who does what, or who passes what to whom" are being created.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 10:56 AM, Andy B. wrote:
I want my browsing experience as clean as possible. Under no conditions will I approve of an app or website to push notifications through a browser.
You and I are cut from the same cloth.   I said pretty much the same thing two days ago.

We are, it seems, either currently in the minority or rapidly becoming so.  Push notifications, whether through the browser itself, or via pass-through to Windows to present via toast notification, are becoming all the rage.

It is important for people to know that:

1.  They cannot and will not get push notifications of any kind unless they consent to receiving same.  [And, no, I do not count if a nefarious actor were to somehow "auto consent" to same, that would be malware.]

2.  The usual default is for the browser to handle and present these notifications.

3.  A number of browsers are implementing "pass along" functionality so that instead of their presenting the push notifications, they're passed to Windows to present as toasts.

If you never consent to a push notification, then points two and three are utterly irrelevant.  But if you do, you will need to figure out exactly how the browser(s) you're using on a routine basis is actually processing push notifications - by itself or by passing same to Windows.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 

Vincent,

           Thanks for that Ghacks article link, as it's quite thorough in explaining the control of this feature under Firefox and also includes links (which I did not follow) at the end discussing it for Chrome.

           Both this article and one I gave a link to several days ago show that for Chrome this feature is rapidly coming up on one year old and is around 8 months old for Firefox.   Because I don't allow push notifications I do not know what either browser has as its default setting as far as handing these off to Windows for presentation.  But if you (any you) suddenly start getting these via Windows and don't want them presented that way you'll have to tweak your browser settings to disallow pass-through and/or turn off permissions to receive push notifications from the sites where you've allowed them to come from in the first place.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 

An apology for straying so far off-topic here (my bad) and several what I hope will be final points:

1.  Since I moderate on both this group and as archives manager on the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group, I sometimes confuse where I've said what when it's a couple of days old.

2.  The conversation about Chrome and push notifications occurred on the Win10 group, so all confusion regarding where this stuff I've made reference to here is mine.

3.  I believed when posting my last few messages that I was on the Win10 group, where the discussion in depth of how browsers handle push notifications would be far more on topic.

4.  I believe we've covered more than needs to be covered with regard to NVDA and push notifications at this juncture on this topic.  If people have questions regarding how to configure the browser that they're using with regard to push notifications, that should be taken to the Chat Subgroup, the Windows 10 for SR Users group, or elsewhere.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

 

Brian and Vincent,
First of all, sorry for post to this topic again but this will be the last time. I'll be posting to the Chat Subgroup but before that, I just want to clear a few things up:

Vincent wrote:
It's possible Facebook just pushes notifications to a different system without much accessibility support besides reading. I guess you already checked the system tray (Windows + B)?
Yes, I did, so I'd agree with you. Probably it's not accessible but I'll be more than happy to be wrong on this at the end :)

Brian wrote:
if one is using Chrome it's possible to have the browser push those push messages straight over to Windows to be presented as toast notifications, or not.

So one has to know what browser is being used and whether certain features have been configured in certain ways to know for certain how one might directly interact with a push message.
Well, I'm  using Firefox, as I said on my first message, and apparently my version of Firefox doesn't allow these notifications to be presented as toast ones. I mean, is it possible that a toast notification doesn't show up in the Notifications Center? Because so far, every notification I got, I was able eiter to see it by pressing Win+Shift+V or if I wasn't fast enough to do it I could see the notification on the Center. So weren't they toast notifications? I'm confused.

Finally, I read the article on gHacks telling about these notifications (thanks, Vincent). Probably, the problem lies on my Firefox then. Because I was supposed to see it on the list of apps that can  or cannot send notifications and it's not there as an  option to check.

Well, with all of this said, I'm  moving it to the Chat Subgroup. I hope you guys will follow me and help me with it, as this is a cool feature and I really didn't want to miss it out.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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