Topics

NVDA moving to Python 3


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

There has been a bit of confusion over NVDA's move to "Python 3".  I wanted to share a short message to clarify a couple of issues and concerns people have raised:

First and most importantly; the upcoming NVDA 2019.2 is not affected.  NVDA 2019.2 still uses code based on "Python 2", just like NVDA 2019.1 and earlier.  So, for the most part, anything which works in NVDA 2019.1, should work in 2019.2.

Please do test NVDA 2019.2 beta 3, which is available here: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2019.2beta3/nvda_2019.2beta3.exe.  If you do find any issues, particularly things which worked in NVDA 2019.1 which no longer work, please do let us know.  The "Release Candidate" for 2019.2 is due out shortly, and we would encourage all users to test that when it comes out.

So what are we doing?  We're updating NVDA's code from being largely based on Python 2, to Python 3.  Python 3 was first introduced in 2008, and Python 2 will reach end-of-life early next year.   Python's Wikipedia page succinctly explains why Python 3 is important:   Python 3 was "... designed to rectify fundamental design flaws in the language—the changes required could not be implemented while retaining full backwards compatibility with the 2.x series".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python#Version_3

So why are we doing this?   Partly to ensure the ongoing stability and security of NVDA.  We cannot release a product based on a programming language which is no longer supported.  Not only would functionality be increasingly likely to break with updates to Windows and other programs, but it would not be secure.  As well as this, developers learning Python over the past few years have not been taught Python 2, they have been taught Python 3.  Moving to Python 3 ensures that we have access to this growing pool of developers.

NV Access and the community have worked together to ensure the process to transition add-ons is as smooth as possible.  There is a Wiki page with information on the transition at: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/nvdaPy3  Any developers with questions are encouraged to join in the discussion on the NVDA Developers mailing list: https://groups.io/g/nvda-devel  As much as users are concerned about the ongoing viability of add-ons they rely on, we are also keen to maintain stability and continuity of functionality for everyone.

We have just released a first Alpha build of NVDA updated to Python 3.  This is really only aimed at developers at this point.  What we would like end-users to know is that we have been in contact with the major synth and add-on developers.  We knew that would be the first question many people had about this process so we have involved them from early on.

If you are wondering whether "Synthesizer X" or "Add-on Y" will work under Python 3, the manufacturer of that Synthesizer or add-on is the first port of call.  If they have already updated and tested, they will be happy to let you know that.  Remember that we have only just released a first alpha build using Python 3 ourselves, so don't panic if your favourite hasn't been updated yet!

Joseph Lee has helpfully curated a list of add-ons, their known status and the contact details for the developer.  This list is on the official add-ons site:  https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdapy3.en.html

We will continue to work with add-on and synthesizer developers.  We don't have a choice about making this change, but like you, we don't want to see anyone left with decreased functionality due to an "upgrade".
 
Rest assured we will continue to test these changes to NVDA's codebase prior to pushing them out to users.  If you do still have any questions or concerns, please feel free to ask.

Regards

Quentin

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta3 now available!


Josh Kennedy
 

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.



On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


molly the blind tech lover
 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


 

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Windows 1 core Katherine? I only have mark, david and ziera.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Jul 2019, at 16:40, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3



Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3



I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.





On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon.





 

Hi,

Different languages will have different voices. The three mentioned by Sarah is for American English.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Windows 1 core Katherine? I only have mark, david and ziera.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Jul 2019, at 16:40, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


molly the blind tech lover
 

That’s great

The OneCore is my favorite synthesizer. So many different voices to choose from.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 7:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


Quentin Christensen
 

OneCore Catherine is, from memory, one of the English (Australian) voices.  If you install different languages (including variants, eg English (Irish), English (Canadian), etc, and the speech packs, you get additional OneCore voices with those accents.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:49 AM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Different languages will have different voices. The three mentioned by Sarah is for American English.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Windows 1 core Katherine? I only have mark, david and ziera.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Jul 2019, at 16:40, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta1 now available!


molly the blind tech lover
 

There’s also Hazel ☺ You will have to download and install the language pack.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 7:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Windows 1 core Katherine? I only have mark, david and ziera.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Jul 2019, at 16:40, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


Sarah k Alawami
 

You mean the 3 I misspelled lol! Yeah I forgot they would have different languages lol!

Take care and be blessed.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Jul 2019, at 16:49, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Different languages will have different voices. The three mentioned by Sarah is for American English.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Windows 1 core Katherine? I only have mark, david and ziera.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and mixer. Thanks Restream staff.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 29 Jul 2019, at 16:40, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Yes. In fact, Windows OneCore was the first speech synthesizer to become compatible with Python 3.
Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 4:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

Will the windows OneCore Microsoft Catherine voice work with python 3?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA moving to Python 3

 

I wouldn't bother with anny synth addons to be honest.

If you can afford it I'd use their sapi equivilants.

You are not locked down to one particular program, and they can be used anywhere you want.

While I have vocaliser, its a nice high quality but slow crappy synth for normal use.

Its good for gaming where its needed, and book reading and things like that.

On the other side something like espeak, is low quality, fast responding, high performance, but crappy sounding.

Its good for games without stories, documentation reading, email, brousing the web, doing administration and running virtual machines and things where I don't care what I am hearing or if it sounds good just that I am getting correct information.

I suppose with the powerfull system I have I could run vocaliser constantly but it may not be what I want all day long.

Pluss in a situation where something crashes or goes down or something breaks, I could be stuck with no speech because the net failed, or bit of windows went or something else fails.

The only way for me to get things back would either be a full reformat or killing configurations.

I have found that when I have relied on some stuff like this in the past that when it fails, you have nothing to fall back on.

A reformat fixes it as it always does, however as a result of being bitten to many times, for general purpose and we are talking general purpose, I would prefur crappy low quality but readable information rather than high quality readable but unstable information.

Also until recently any high quality anything is a performance drag.

I know several on xp and lower specked systems that can't afford any upgrades at all.

And even for those that do, they get the cheapest options which may be a few generations lower than current.

I have tried to run high quality on systems for general use and even when it has worked even if the system does not crash, even if it works floorlessly without me having to reformat to get speech back the load time is insane and so is responce time when I press a key.

I know with espeak that I am garanteed speech, crappy that it is.

And I am garanteed information in a readable format.

It may not sound that nice but I can read it.

In my line of work as admin and tester, I don't care if the information is sounding good or not just that I am getting it.

 If I am reading a book or playing an advanced flight game or something like that then of course I do.

I guess if your job is a translater or transcriber, high quality speech would be something you would have to use on a regular basis.

However you would have the hardware and software to support you or at least I do hope so.

I have friends some in the church, some in jobs that have never been able to afford the more expensive tech ever in their lives and get cast offs only.

Some are even used to it.

 

 

On 30/07/2019 4:48 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am going to buy the eloquence/vocalizer NVDA-addon on Friday. I hope that it will work with python3 when the time comes. Since I get extra social security in the united states now, these voices are easily affordable for me. I want the legal versions of voices because I am hoping that the legal eloquence and legal vocalizer will be updated to python3 whereas unsupported illegal stuff which is unsupported may just plain break and not work. Right now I am using sapi5 eloquence from codeFactory until this Friday when I can register the eloquence/vocalizer codeFactory addon. 


enes sarıbaş
 

Hi Quentin,

Will you be considering compiling NVDA in 64 bit in addition to py3?

On 7/29/2019 1:52 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

There has been a bit of confusion over NVDA's move to "Python 3".  I wanted to share a short message to clarify a couple of issues and concerns people have raised:

First and most importantly; the upcoming NVDA 2019.2 is not affected.  NVDA 2019.2 still uses code based on "Python 2", just like NVDA 2019.1 and earlier.  So, for the most part, anything which works in NVDA 2019.1, should work in 2019.2.

Please do test NVDA 2019.2 beta 3, which is available here: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2019.2beta3/nvda_2019.2beta3.exe.  If you do find any issues, particularly things which worked in NVDA 2019.1 which no longer work, please do let us know.  The "Release Candidate" for 2019.2 is due out shortly, and we would encourage all users to test that when it comes out.

So what are we doing?  We're updating NVDA's code from being largely based on Python 2, to Python 3.  Python 3 was first introduced in 2008, and Python 2 will reach end-of-life early next year.   Python's Wikipedia page succinctly explains why Python 3 is important:   Python 3 was "... designed to rectify fundamental design flaws in the language—the changes required could not be implemented while retaining full backwards compatibility with the 2.x series".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python#Version_3

So why are we doing this?   Partly to ensure the ongoing stability and security of NVDA.  We cannot release a product based on a programming language which is no longer supported.  Not only would functionality be increasingly likely to break with updates to Windows and other programs, but it would not be secure.  As well as this, developers learning Python over the past few years have not been taught Python 2, they have been taught Python 3.  Moving to Python 3 ensures that we have access to this growing pool of developers.

NV Access and the community have worked together to ensure the process to transition add-ons is as smooth as possible.  There is a Wiki page with information on the transition at: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/nvdaPy3  Any developers with questions are encouraged to join in the discussion on the NVDA Developers mailing list: https://groups.io/g/nvda-devel  As much as users are concerned about the ongoing viability of add-ons they rely on, we are also keen to maintain stability and continuity of functionality for everyone.

We have just released a first Alpha build of NVDA updated to Python 3.  This is really only aimed at developers at this point.  What we would like end-users to know is that we have been in contact with the major synth and add-on developers.  We knew that would be the first question many people had about this process so we have involved them from early on.

If you are wondering whether "Synthesizer X" or "Add-on Y" will work under Python 3, the manufacturer of that Synthesizer or add-on is the first port of call.  If they have already updated and tested, they will be happy to let you know that.  Remember that we have only just released a first alpha build using Python 3 ourselves, so don't panic if your favourite hasn't been updated yet!

Joseph Lee has helpfully curated a list of add-ons, their known status and the contact details for the developer.  This list is on the official add-ons site:  https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdapy3.en.html

We will continue to work with add-on and synthesizer developers.  We don't have a choice about making this change, but like you, we don't want to see anyone left with decreased functionality due to an "upgrade".
 
Rest assured we will continue to test these changes to NVDA's codebase prior to pushing them out to users.  If you do still have any questions or concerns, please feel free to ask.

Regards

Quentin

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta3 now available!


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Enes,

Not just yet. Potentially in the future, for now we're going to concentrate on getting NVDA itself and all of the add-ons, synthesizers and anything else moved over to Python 3.

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 2:32 PM enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin,

Will you be considering compiling NVDA in 64 bit in addition to py3?

On 7/29/2019 1:52 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

There has been a bit of confusion over NVDA's move to "Python 3".  I wanted to share a short message to clarify a couple of issues and concerns people have raised:

First and most importantly; the upcoming NVDA 2019.2 is not affected.  NVDA 2019.2 still uses code based on "Python 2", just like NVDA 2019.1 and earlier.  So, for the most part, anything which works in NVDA 2019.1, should work in 2019.2.

Please do test NVDA 2019.2 beta 3, which is available here: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2019.2beta3/nvda_2019.2beta3.exe.  If you do find any issues, particularly things which worked in NVDA 2019.1 which no longer work, please do let us know.  The "Release Candidate" for 2019.2 is due out shortly, and we would encourage all users to test that when it comes out.

So what are we doing?  We're updating NVDA's code from being largely based on Python 2, to Python 3.  Python 3 was first introduced in 2008, and Python 2 will reach end-of-life early next year.   Python's Wikipedia page succinctly explains why Python 3 is important:   Python 3 was "... designed to rectify fundamental design flaws in the language—the changes required could not be implemented while retaining full backwards compatibility with the 2.x series".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Python#Version_3

So why are we doing this?   Partly to ensure the ongoing stability and security of NVDA.  We cannot release a product based on a programming language which is no longer supported.  Not only would functionality be increasingly likely to break with updates to Windows and other programs, but it would not be secure.  As well as this, developers learning Python over the past few years have not been taught Python 2, they have been taught Python 3.  Moving to Python 3 ensures that we have access to this growing pool of developers.

NV Access and the community have worked together to ensure the process to transition add-ons is as smooth as possible.  There is a Wiki page with information on the transition at: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/nvdaPy3  Any developers with questions are encouraged to join in the discussion on the NVDA Developers mailing list: https://groups.io/g/nvda-devel  As much as users are concerned about the ongoing viability of add-ons they rely on, we are also keen to maintain stability and continuity of functionality for everyone.

We have just released a first Alpha build of NVDA updated to Python 3.  This is really only aimed at developers at this point.  What we would like end-users to know is that we have been in contact with the major synth and add-on developers.  We knew that would be the first question many people had about this process so we have involved them from early on.

If you are wondering whether "Synthesizer X" or "Add-on Y" will work under Python 3, the manufacturer of that Synthesizer or add-on is the first port of call.  If they have already updated and tested, they will be happy to let you know that.  Remember that we have only just released a first alpha build using Python 3 ourselves, so don't panic if your favourite hasn't been updated yet!

Joseph Lee has helpfully curated a list of add-ons, their known status and the contact details for the developer.  This list is on the official add-ons site:  https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdapy3.en.html

We will continue to work with add-on and synthesizer developers.  We don't have a choice about making this change, but like you, we don't want to see anyone left with decreased functionality due to an "upgrade".
 
Rest assured we will continue to test these changes to NVDA's codebase prior to pushing them out to users.  If you do still have any questions or concerns, please feel free to ask.

Regards

Quentin

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2beta3 now available!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.2 RC 1 now available!