Topics

A point on email clients


Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious, is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent


Gene
 

What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




Gene
 

It won't see your e-mail.  it won't see your addressbook either unless you specifically sign into something, I'm not sure what.  I have never signed in to whatever Windows Live Mail gives you the opportunity to sign into. 
 
Gene
----- original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




Gene
 

I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




 

There is no other option. The only accessible open source email client is TB. OE Classic is freeware, and not open source, but there is no other option, at all, for open source email clients.


Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

I understand.  I have found WLM on a secondary website but it gives me an error (can't install Windows Live Mail on your computer) when installation reaches 64%, so I guess that's out.  Microsoft recommends using the native mail app on Windows 10, but I guess it's not as accessible (though I've given it a small try and will try again right away, you never know!).


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:
I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




Lukasz Golonka <wulfryk1@...>
 

Hello,

On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:58:03 +0200
"Vincent Le Goff" <vincent.legoff.srs@...> wrote:

So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few requirements:
I am personally using Becky Internet Maill. She is not open source nor free but is extremely fast and configurable.

- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.
My main machine is not running on Windows 10 at the moment but when it was there were no problems.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.
You just have to press F4, choose account you want and press tab to go to the inbox.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.
No problems there.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.
Also no problem.


Before you would get to excited it is important to note that Becky is not as accessible as Thunderbird. To be exact sorting messages must be done by simulating mouse clicks, selection in edit fields isn't reported though you can use block selection commands to work around it and say all only partially works.
If you decide to try her and you would be having problems I can help if you'd like.

--
Regards
Lukasz


Jason White
 

Microsoft Outlook is very accessible. It supports IMAP servers as well as Microsoft Exchange. It's already available to you if you have Microsoft Office installed.

I've used various email clients under different operating system. Microsoft Outlook is undoubtedly among the best of them.

I've used Thunderbird under Linux, but not Windows, so I can't comment on your issues with it.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community. The client is getting extremely sluggish. It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille. Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems. The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now? Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices. For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using? What would be more fitting with NVDA? I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent


Gene
 

Not necessarily.  We don't know if the downloader has a problem.  If you want, someone on the list who definitely has a good copy, and it must be a full installer, can send it to you.  Do you want the older menu or the newer ribbon version?  As far as I know, they can both be used in Windows 7 and 10 but I haven't tried running the menu version in newer versions of Windows.
 
Gene
-----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

I understand.  I have found WLM on a secondary website but it gives me an error (can't install Windows Live Mail on your computer) when installation reaches 64%, so I guess that's out.  Microsoft recommends using the native mail app on Windows 10, but I guess it's not as accessible (though I've given it a small try and will try again right away, you never know!).


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:
I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi Gene,


Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).


I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.


Thanks again,


Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

I don’t really mind menu or ribbons, so I guess I should try for the ribbon one, might be easier to keep around for awhile!  I’m running on the Windows native mail app right now and it’s fairly accessible, the second try proved much worth it.  I just don’t see what I’m writing in Braille unless I press a navigation key, which is a bit odd but not a real problem seeing how fluid the app is.  But I’ll test WLM!

 

Thanks,

 

Vincent

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 7:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Not necessarily.  We don't know if the downloader has a problem.  If you want, someone on the list who definitely has a good copy, and it must be a full installer, can send it to you.  Do you want the older menu or the newer ribbon version?  As far as I know, they can both be used in Windows 7 and 10 but I haven't tried running the menu version in newer versions of Windows.

 

Gene

-----

 

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 12:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

I understand.  I have found WLM on a secondary website but it gives me an error (can't install Windows Live Mail on your computer) when installation reaches 64%, so I guess that's out.  Microsoft recommends using the native mail app on Windows 10, but I guess it's not as accessible (though I've given it a small try and will try again right away, you never know!).

 

Vincent

On 8/25/2019 7:10 PM, Gene wrote:

I mean that you have to sign into something in Windows Live Mail itself.  Microsoft won't see your Windows Live Mail information just because you have a Microsoft account, if you do.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:28 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Hi Gene,

 

Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).

 

I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.

 

Thanks again,

 

Vincent

On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:

What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 

 

Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM

Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent


 


 

Windows Live Mail 2012 is still working just fine as a straight e-mail client, and there are no reports, yet, of any significant security risks stemming from its use since it's out of support.

I archived the Windows Essentials 2012 installer, of which Windows Live Mail is one of the selectable essentials that can be installed alone, about a week before it was pulled from Microsoft's own web site.   If anyone wants same, here it is:  Windows Live Mail (Windows Essentials) 2012 (ZIP format)
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Luke Davis
 

Vincent, I observe that you are already using Gmail. That leads to two points: you must be okay with giving them access to your email, so why not the big Microsoft overlord? Tongue in cheek of course. The second point is more relevant: have you considered using the Gmail web interface for your mail? If I recall correctly, there are at least two modes you can use that in; one of them might work in a way you enjoy.

Just a thought.

All that said, if you are using a local IMAP client, be it outlook or windows mail, or anything else, Microsoft or not, the provider shouldn't have any access to your mail. That is not generally how it works. I imagine there would be massive outcry among business customers, if it was learned that MS was sucking in all the mail they transacted using Outlook, especially given Microsoft's well known policy of "if it passes through our servers, it's our data".
So I very much doubt your concern is valid here.

Luke

On Sun, 25 Aug 2019, Vincent Le Goff wrote:

Hi Gene,
Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep
this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).
I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I
must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in
terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.
Thanks again,
Vincent
On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:
What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs
included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general
avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 
 
Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because
Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Le Goff
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients
Hi everyone,
This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting
worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The
client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users
but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few
seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on
Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a
fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails
(yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).
But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,
is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too
well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many
choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client
specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the
name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.
So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what
are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few
requirements:
- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.
- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for
several email accounts and simple switches between them.
- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used
to retreieve messages.
- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.
Thanks in advance for your advice!
Vincent


 

I havn't used anything over thunderbird 60.8.0 but yeah, I don't care for ms products.

There is old out dated eudora but not sure about other things, there was a thing called thebat but I don't know about anything else at all.

On 26/08/2019 3:58 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious, is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



.


Tony Malykh
 

There are many command-line email clients, that you can try. One of the most popular ones is alpine, I have heard that blind people managed to successfully use it. I have to confess I haven't tried it myself, but in light of all the problems with Thunderbird I might consider that as well soon. It probably won't support HTML though.

On 8/25/2019 8:58 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious, is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent



Betsy Grenevitch
 

I sure wish I knew enough about thunderbird to help you Vincent--if you are still here. I use three different email addresses and am using Windows 10 and find thunderbird working well for me. Sometimes there are problems but for the most part I can fly through my email. I am using a laptop computer and do not know how many bits it is. It is a toshiba laptop.

Betsy


On 8/25/2019 1:14 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:

There is no other option. The only accessible open source email client is TB. OE Classic is freeware, and not open source, but there is no other option, at all, for open source email clients.


Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...>
 

Hi Luke,

 

I would think so.  I don’t want to sound overly-paranoid here, just saying we have absolutely no idea what is being stored or used, despite Microsoft or other good will, so I tend to avoid depending on a single provider for all my data.  I just feel more comfortable.  No offense to anyone, personal choice.

 

Gmail webmail is accessible, just not what I’d call overly comfortable in Braille and does require a bit more switching and keyboard shortcuts… and of course, I have other email providers as well, so gmail can’t do it all.  Right now I’m using Windows Mail with no real problem, I’m just sad to have dropped an open-source software for a Windows native app.  But then, for accessibility’s sake, I expect this is not so infrequent.

 

Vincent

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 12:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A point on email clients

 

Vincent, I observe that you are already using Gmail. That leads to two

points: you must be okay with giving them access to your email, so why not the

big Microsoft overlord? Tongue in cheek of course. The second point is more

relevant: have you considered using the Gmail web interface for your mail? If I

recall correctly, there are at least two modes you can use that in; one of them

might work in a way you enjoy.

 

Just a thought.

 

All that said, if you are using a local IMAP client, be it outlook or windows

mail, or anything else, Microsoft or not, the provider shouldn't have any access

to your mail. That is not generally how it works. I imagine there would be

massive outcry among business customers, if it was learned that MS was sucking

in all the mail they transacted using Outlook, especially given Microsoft's

well known policy of "if it passes through our servers, it's our data".

So I very much doubt your concern is valid here.

 

Luke

 

  On Sun, 25 Aug 2019,

Vincent Le Goff wrote:

 

>

> Hi Gene,

>

>

> Thanks for y6our answer.  Hehe, I think Microsoft has enough data on me, giving it my email doesn't sound great.  But yeah, let's imagine they don't keep

> this data!  As I was saying I really can't use Thunderbird much (even writing this somewhat short message is a pain).

>

>

> I've tried eM client today, light and fast, like I wanted, but not accessible as far as I can tell.  So I guess I will need to find WLM somewhere.  But I

> must admit it's a big disappointment to me who places so much on open- source technology, so going from Thunderbird to Microsoft is a downgrade, not in

> terms of feature, but in terms of philosophy, if that makes any sense.

>

>

> Thanks again,

>

>

> Vincent

>

> On 8/25/2019 6:10 PM, Gene wrote:

>       What is wrong with using Windows Live Mail?  And what is wrong with using Microsoft products in general?  Some of the utilities and programs

>       included with Windows are designed to be easy to use and don't have options more advanced or demanding users might want or need.  But a general

>       avoidance of Microsoft products may lead to unnecessary problems or unnecessary time and effort looking for something else that works well. 

>  

> Windows Live Mail is completely accessible.  you can use the old menu version or the newer ribbon version.  You have to get it from someone, because

> Microsoft no longer supports and distributes it. 

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> From: Vincent Le Goff

> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:58 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: [nvda] A point on email clients

>

> Hi everyone,

>

>

> This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting

> worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The

> client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users

> but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few

> seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on

> Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a

> fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails

> (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).

>

>

> But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious,

> is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too

> well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many

> choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client

> specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the

> name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.

>

>

> So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what

> are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few

> requirements:

>

>

> - I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

>

> - I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for

> several email accounts and simple switches between them.

>

> - I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used

> to retreieve messages.

>

> - Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.

>

>

> Thanks in advance for your advice!

>

>

> Vincent

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 


Cecelia Rodriguez <cessbraille@...>
 

The mail app in windows 10

On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:58 AM, Vincent Le Goff <vincent.legoff.srs@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,


This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community. The client is getting extremely sluggish. It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille. Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).


But this "ragequit" will pose some problems. The first, and obvious, is: what to use now? Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices. For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.


So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using? What would be more fitting with NVDA? I have a few requirements:


- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.

- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.

- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.

- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.


Thanks in advance for your advice!


Vincent




Jarek.Krcmar
 

Hi all,

I have Windows Live Mail uninstalled, but when I want install it again,

it is impossible, the installation dos not work.


Jarek
Dne 25.08.2019 v 20:18 Brian Vogel napsal(a):

Windows Live Mail 2012 is still working just fine as a straight e-mail client, and there are no reports, yet, of any significant security risks stemming from its use since it's out of support.

I archived the Windows Essentials 2012 installer, of which Windows Live Mail is one of the selectable essentials that can be installed alone, about a week before it was pulled from Microsoft's own web site.   If anyone wants same, here it is:  Windows Live Mail (Windows Essentials) 2012 (ZIP format)
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 


Simone Dal Maso
 

Hello,
I am using thunderbird and it is really fast and I have really lots of mail.
If you are using windows10, consider that if you don't exclude the thunderbird folder from Windows Defender, your client will be slow and slow and still slow!
I spent about 3 weeks in order to understand why thunderbird was suddenly so stupid, and I realized that after excluding all its data from the windows defender scan system, all become ok!

Il 25/08/2019 17:58, Vincent Le Goff ha scritto:
Hi everyone,
This has been reported for a few weeks or months and things are getting worse, so I'm afraid I'll have to leave the Thunderbird community.  The client is getting extremely sluggish.  It behaves well for sighted users but the thing is not reporting information to NVDA in less than a few seconds for each key press, especially for us unfortunate relying on Braille.  Enough is enough. Thunderbird served its purpose but I need a fast email client and can't spend 2 hours reading my 100 daily emails (yep, I happen to receive lots of emails).
But this "ragequit" will pose some problems.  The first, and obvious, is: what to use now?  Relying on Microsoft products doesn't sit too well, I'm already doing a lot of that, but it seems there aren't so many choices.  For awhile I heard about an open-source email client specifically created for accessibility, but I can't remember what the name was, who created it, and Google can't help me.
So the debate is open: let's avoid the flamewar if possible, but what are you using?  What would be more fitting with NVDA?  I have a few requirements:
- I'm running on Windows 10 (64-bit). Can't do without that.
- I have two accounts and possibly three, so I need to have support for several email accounts and simple switches between them.
- I need support for iMap, which is basically the only protocol I used to retreieve messages.
- Support for simple text and HTML content is obviously a strong bonus.
Thanks in advance for your advice!
Vincent