Topics

Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

David Moore
 

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>> 

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>> 

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>> 

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>> 

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>> 

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>> 

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>> 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.  However, you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

> 

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>> 

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>> 

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>> 

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>> 

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>> 

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>> 

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>> 

> 

 

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Gene
 

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of these problems. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.  However, you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

> 

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>> 

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>> 

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>> 

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>> 

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>> 

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>> 

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>> 

> 

 

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 

The following is not intended as finger pointing, but as an effort to keep this information cohesive.

It appears that Mr. Moore accidentally deleted the space between the words "the" and "next" on the original title of this thread, which has spun off a separate thread.  Mr. Christensen has added information that's valuable to the ongoing discussion with regard to testing and is directly pertinent on the original thread.

If there is any way a the group owner can merge this thread back in to the original one and, if possible, delete this post requesting same that will probably be incredibly helpful if not now, then later when people are searching for material discussed as a direct result of where the original thread drifted.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    


Quentin Christensen
 

That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of these problems. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.  However, you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

> 

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>> 

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>> 

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>> 

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>> 

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>> 

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>> 

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>> 

> 

 

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Gene
 

I was sure that Nasrin said he was using XP.  This should be clarified.  I believe in one of his responses to me, he said he was using XP, which is one reason I tested the program on an XP machine.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of these problems. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.  However, you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

> 

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>> 

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>> 

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>> 

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>> 

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>> 

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>> 

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>> 

> 

 

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Quentin Christensen
 

I just went back and re-read the earlier messages in this thread.  Nasrin didn't mention which version of windows he was using, although at one point he did say that he had heard from others that the problems persisted in Windows 7, which would indicate he was using an earlier version.  In the other thread announcing the rc1 build, he mentioned using XP though so you are right.  Looks like he is using XP.  I think I saw the reference to Windows 7 and got off track from that.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I was sure that Nasrin said he was using XP.  This should be clarified.  I believe in one of his responses to me, he said he was using XP, which is one reason I tested the program on an XP machine.
 
Gene 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of these problems. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.  However, you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

> 

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>> 

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>> 

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>> 

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>> 

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>> 

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>> 

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>> 

> 

 

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Michael Capelle <mcapelle@...>
 

please, do not get rid of xp support.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually. However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's
virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others
running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are
being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

I agree. I know XP's really old, and pretty much dead, but I agree here with Michael. There are, though rare, some instances where it can actually be useful to have XP lying around for old legacy software that just won't run anywhere else. Don't get me wrong. Primarily, I use Windows 10, but once in a while I'll use my old xp machine for things.

Chris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Capelle" <mcapelle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually. However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's
virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others
running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are
being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Gene
 

At some oint, it will probably be necessary to stop XP support in new versions.  If so, I would think the last version to support XP would continue to be offered. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

I agree. I know XP's really old, and pretty much dead, but I agree here with
Michael. There are, though rare, some instances where it can actually be
useful to have XP lying around for old legacy software that just won't run
anywhere else. Don't get me wrong. Primarily, I use Windows 10, but once in
a while I'll use my old xp machine for things.

Chris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Capelle" <mcapelle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


> please, do not get rid of xp support.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
> thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>
>
> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it
> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as
> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>
>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
>> these problems.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>
>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>> However,
>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>
>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm
>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I
>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Quentin.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>
>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls
>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in
>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>
>>> David Moore
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just for your correction.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>
>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds
>>>
>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from
>>>
>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For
>>>
>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give
>>>
>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.
>>>
>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at
>>>
>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage
>>>
>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>
>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end
>>>
>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a
>>>
>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able
>>>
>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
>>> expect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have
>>>
>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at
>>>
>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if
>>>
>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide
>>>
>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60
>>>
>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software
>>>
>>> is workable or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes
>>>
>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case
>>>
>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>
>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen
>>>
>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech
>>>
>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe
>>>
>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted
>>>
>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>
>>> > gene.
>>>
>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>
>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>
>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>
>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
>>>
>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
>>>
>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>
>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
>>>
>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
>>>
>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong
>>> with
>>>
>>> >> that.")
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>> encounters an
>>>
>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's
>>>
>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>
>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
>>> >> others
>>>
>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
>>> that you
>>>
>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
>>>
>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
>>> problem
>>>
>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs
>>> that
>>>
>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files
>>> >> are
>>>
>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
>>> these
>>>
>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
>>> "it's
>>>
>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a
>>>
>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>
>>> >> --
>>>
>>> >> *Brian*
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
>>> If
>>>
>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training Material Developer
>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>
>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>> www.nvaccess.org
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training Material Developer
> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> Ph +61 7 3149 3306
> Direct: +61 413 904 383
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>



 

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.

On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's
virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


 

Well you can get all older releases of nvda right now.

On 6/12/2016 3:55 p.m., Gene wrote:
At some oint, it will probably be necessary to stop XP support in new versions. If so, I would think the last version to support XP would continue to be offered.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 8:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


I agree. I know XP's really old, and pretty much dead, but I agree here with
Michael. There are, though rare, some instances where it can actually be
useful to have XP lying around for old legacy software that just won't run
anywhere else. Don't get me wrong. Primarily, I use Windows 10, but once in
a while I'll use my old xp machine for things.

Chris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Capelle" <mcapelle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's
virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others
running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files
are
being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





 

If I had the space I'd have a real xp unit but can't justify it.
My other plan is to get a box with enough ram to run vertual machines

On 6/12/2016 3:15 p.m., Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
I agree. I know XP's really old, and pretty much dead, but I agree here
with Michael. There are, though rare, some instances where it can
actually be useful to have XP lying around for old legacy software that
just won't run anywhere else. Don't get me wrong. Primarily, I use
Windows 10, but once in a while I'll use my old xp machine for things.

Chris.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Capelle" <mcapelle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others
running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





.

Michael Capelle <mcapelle@...>
 

i disagree, my xp has not had any malware on it, and in some cases, it runs better than 7, i also do use at some times, the command prompt, and run DOS, no problems.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any computer
with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft says so and
I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7 will
be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows 7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's
virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Jacob Kruger
 

Ok, FWIW, I still have a VMWare version of windows XP here, and, installed NVDA 2016.4 RC1 under it, installed potplayer, and, if I set it playing an mp3 file, and, use alt + f4 to close it while playing, with it's accessibility settings enabled - using ooooooold MS sam voice - funny old memories invoked by hearing that horrible voice - then it all still works fine, no crashes, no error messages, etc. etc.


So, sorry, Nasrin, but, still not sure what could be causing your hassles, but, it really doesn't seem to be NVDA's background activity, or anything like that.


In any case, like mentioned before, gomplayer offers pretty much the same interface as potplayer, with additional functionality, so would, honestly, suggest you rather try that out, and, take it from there..?


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2016-12-06 07:52, Shaun Everiss wrote:
If I had the space I'd have a real xp unit but can't justify it.
My other plan is to get a box with enough ram to run vertual machines



On 6/12/2016 3:15 p.m., Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
I agree. I know XP's really old, and pretty much dead, but I agree here
with Michael. There are, though rare, some instances where it can
actually be useful to have XP lying around for old legacy software that
just won't run anywhere else. Don't get me wrong. Primarily, I use
Windows 10, but once in a while I'll use my old xp machine for things.

Chris.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Capelle" <mcapelle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine? I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others
running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






.


Quentin Christensen
 

Given that Windows XP support officially ended nearly three years ago, it's probably worth looking into why people are still using it even more than why people are using old versions of NVDA.  There are a lot more risks in using an unsupported version of Windows, even if you think you are safe.

Just to ensure everyone is on the same page on the risks and what exactly Microsoft stopping support for Windows XP means, I grabbed a couple of links for anyone interested.  Firstly Microsoft's own page on the subject: https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/14223/windows-xp-end-of-support


Note that the HowToGeek article talks about buying Windows 7 - obviously that was written some time ago and you pretty much can't these days.  You can buy refurbished PCs from several places such as GreenPC here in Australia which do still come with Windows 7: http://www.greenpc.com.au/catalog/pc so that may potentially be an option depending on what your reasons for still using XP are.

The HowToGeek article also offers the suggestion of using Linux.  Obviously that's one option, however, if you do that, you will need to learn a new operating system and a new screen reader.  Linux does have Orca, however, it doesn't have the same level of functionality as NVDA.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
Ok, FWIW, I still have a VMWare version of windows XP here, and, installed NVDA 2016.4 RC1 under it, installed potplayer, and, if I set it playing an mp3 file, and, use alt + f4 to close it while playing, with it's accessibility settings enabled - using ooooooold MS sam voice - funny old memories invoked by hearing that horrible voice - then it all still works fine, no crashes, no error messages, etc. etc.


So, sorry, Nasrin, but, still not sure what could be causing your hassles, but, it really doesn't seem to be NVDA's background activity, or anything like that.


In any case, like mentioned before, gomplayer offers pretty much the same interface as potplayer, with additional functionality, so would, honestly, suggest you rather try that out, and, take it from there..?


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2016-12-06 07:52, Shaun Everiss wrote:
If I had the space I'd have a real xp unit but can't justify it.
My other plan is to get a box with enough ram to run vertual machines



On 6/12/2016 3:15 p.m., Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
I agree. I know XP's really old, and pretty much dead, but I agree here
with Michael. There are, though rare, some instances where it can
actually be useful to have XP lying around for old legacy software that
just won't run anywhere else. Don't get me wrong. Primarily, I use
Windows 10, but once in a while I'll use my old xp machine for things.

Chris.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Capelle" <mcapelle@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?  I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

>

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

>> that.")

>>

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>>

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
>> others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>>

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>>

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>>

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>>

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>>

>












--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








.













--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi David,

All good points.  I believe I read something about businesses still being able to get support for XP, which I think runs along the lines of "you can get whatever you want if you can pay for it".  For the average user, Microsoft has ended support for XP, as have many other companies.  How safe or not you are running XP gets very murky very quickly.  Often, the potential problems are in security vulnerabilities that might not even be obvious.  For instance, here's an article from earlier this year on a vulnerability with the way Windows handles fonts and graphics: http://www.zdnet.com/article/all-versions-of-windows-hit-by-critical-security-vulnerabilities/ .  Microsoft has fixed the flaw, but ONLY for versions of Windows which are still supported, meaning if you are running Windows XP, there is nothing you can do.  Ok they said it wasn't believed to be actively being exploited in the wild, but still it's there if anyone ever does decide to.  With vulnerabilities in the operating system, it's possible (I haven't looked into it so I'm just speculating randomly) that such flaws could be deeper than an anti virus program can protect against.

It really then comes down to what you use your computer for.  If you write novels on it in Word 97 and that works for you and it never sees an internet connection - no problem, go wild, keep using it for the next 40 years if it holds up.  The problems really only start when you connect it to the internet.  If you are still using Windows XP, for whatever reason, it's important to be aware of the risks, what you can do to minimise them, and how to monitor for problems.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 7:31 PM, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


 From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
> microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
> computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
> says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
> Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
> will be then we will have to struggle with 10.
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>> please, do not get rid of xp support.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
>> <quentin@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>
>>
>> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
>> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
>> Potplayer, it
>> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
>> 7 as
>> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>
>>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
>>> these problems.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>> release,
>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
>>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>>
>>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
>>> the
>>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>>> However,
>>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
>>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>>
>>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
>>> play
>>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
>>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
>>> I'm
>>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
>>> the
>>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
>>> again, I
>>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Quentin.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>>
>>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
>>>> controls
>>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
>>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
>>>> powful in
>>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
>>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
>>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>>
>>>> David Moore
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>> release,
>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just for your correction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>>
>>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
>>>> holds
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from
>>>>
>>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
>>>> For
>>>>
>>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give
>>>>
>>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.
>>>>
>>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at
>>>>
>>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage
>>>>
>>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>>
>>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end
>>>>
>>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a
>>>>
>>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
>>>> able
>>>>
>>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
>>>> expect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
>>>> install at
>>>>
>>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
>>>> determine if
>>>>
>>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide
>>>>
>>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60
>>>>
>>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
>>>> software
>>>>
>>>> is workable or not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes
>>>>
>>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
>>>> case
>>>>
>>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>>
>>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen
>>>>
>>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech
>>>>
>>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe
>>>>
>>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted
>>>>
>>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > gene.
>>>>
>>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>>
>>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>>
>>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>>
>>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
>>>>
>>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
>>>>
>>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>>
>>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
>>>>
>>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
>>>>
>>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
>>>> wrong
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>> >> that.")
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>>> encounters an
>>>>
>>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
>>>> there's
>>>>
>>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>>
>>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
>>>> others
>>>>
>>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
>>>> that you
>>>>
>>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
>>>>
>>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
>>>> problem
>>>>
>>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
>>>> programs
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
>>>> files >> are
>>>>
>>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
>>>> these
>>>>
>>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
>>>> "it's
>>>>
>>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a
>>>>
>>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>>
>>>> >> --
>>>>
>>>> >> *Brian*
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
>>>> complete.
>>>> If
>>>>
>>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Quentin Christensen
>>> Training Material Developer
>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>> available:
>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>
>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> .
>







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of that operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser. Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors. This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.


Quentin Christensen
 

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...> wrote:
Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer work due to the  security of that operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is  the web browser. Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors. This is due to the lack of sse2  instruction set support on the amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel processors at version 15,  though they do warn that this could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

>

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

>> that.")

>>

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>>

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration
that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>>

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given
problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>>

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but
these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when
"it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>>

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>>

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>>

>












--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








.













--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess