Topics

NVDA and LibreOfice annoyances - Two, three or many places?


Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015, but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.


Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies the cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:

In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015, but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.



 

hi.
excuse me because i am not familiar with calc to test.
in writer, when i want use say all, i press alt+f to go to the file menu.
then find preview in web browser.
in this case, libreoffice makes temporary html from my doc docx file,
opens my default web browser which is firefox and shows my html in my
firefox.
so, i use insert+down for say all command.
and also i remember that i converted one calc file in to html to study
it with firefox!

On 4/17/17, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io
<wsautodidata=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> wrote:
For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA was
downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what
changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies the
cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears
that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems
are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved
easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other
and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to show
only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do
NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the
two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015, but
cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Just for reference, I installed open office version 4.3 today, and it works just fine with NVDA.

At least it did for opening and editing a word file. Saving became problematic, as it wanted me to save in odt format instead of doc, since it said it would loose formatting information if I saved in the original doc format, which makes no sense to me, since it was opened in the original doc format, how could it loose information it already has?

<shrug>

But, as for functionality, I had no issues.

On 4/17/2017 7:21 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io wrote:
For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies the cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015, but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.





 

hello.
you should go to the options in tools menu.
in load save open general and uncheck Warn when not saving in ODF or
default format
then find always save as and change it in to Microsoft Word
97/2000/XP/2003 in the combo box.

openoffice does not save as docx and if you want to change your docx files,
you should save them in another formats except docx!
but libreoffice does not have this problem and supports even docx for
saving files.
hope that help.
God bless you.

On 4/17/17, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:
Just for reference, I installed open office version 4.3 today, and it
works just fine with NVDA.

At least it did for opening and editing a word file. Saving became
problematic, as it wanted me to save in odt format instead of doc, since
it said it would loose formatting information if I saved in the original
doc format, which makes no sense to me, since it was opened in the
original doc format, how could it loose information it already has?

<shrug>

But, as for functionality, I had no issues.


On 4/17/2017 7:21 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io wrote:
For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA
was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what
changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies
the cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears
that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING
SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems
are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved
easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other
and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to
show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do
NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the
two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015,
but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.









--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think that too many people send files as docx and the other excel variants. The snag is that not all the parameters are always supported by conversion systems etc, and to me everything can be done in the old way in doc in any case.
I think Microsoft in pressing ahead with the X formats are making a mistake, personally. Its certainly caused me to have to send them back to companies and explain in very detailed terms why these do not always work for everyone.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and LibreOfice annoyances - Two, three or many places?


hello.
you should go to the options in tools menu.
in load save open general and uncheck Warn when not saving in ODF or
default format
then find always save as and change it in to Microsoft Word
97/2000/XP/2003 in the combo box.

openoffice does not save as docx and if you want to change your docx files,
you should save them in another formats except docx!
but libreoffice does not have this problem and supports even docx for
saving files.
hope that help.
God bless you.

On 4/17/17, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:
Just for reference, I installed open office version 4.3 today, and it
works just fine with NVDA.

At least it did for opening and editing a word file. Saving became
problematic, as it wanted me to save in odt format instead of doc, since
it said it would loose formatting information if I saved in the original
doc format, which makes no sense to me, since it was opened in the
original doc format, how could it loose information it already has?

<shrug>

But, as for functionality, I had no issues.


On 4/17/2017 7:21 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io wrote:
For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA
was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what
changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies
the cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears
that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING
SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems
are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved
easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other
and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to
show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do
NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the
two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015,
but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.










--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

I am sorry, but OpenOffice is even worse than LibreOffice.

It appears that the problems are related to the complexity of the documents. For example, a LibreOffice Calc file with many spreadsheets, fixed lines, formulas related to cells in other spreadsheets cause NVDA to stop working altogether, but only with LibreOffice. ALT TAB to other programs and it is working. Go back to LibreOffice and it is muted.



Em 17/04/2017 14:51, Travis Siegel escreveu:

Just for reference, I installed open office version 4.3 today, and it works just fine with NVDA.

At least it did for opening and editing a word file. Saving became problematic, as it wanted me to save in odt format instead of doc, since it said it would loose formatting information if I saved in the original doc format, which makes no sense to me, since it was opened in the original doc format, how could it loose information it already has?

<shrug>

But, as for functionality, I had no issues.


On 4/17/2017 7:21 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io wrote:
For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies the cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015, but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.








 

brian,
if you only need doc format you can use openoffice,
but if you need also saving as docx and send it for others
and edit the docx format without need conversion in to doc, you need
only libreoffice!
i read somewhere that docx and docm are about documents like doc extension!
but docx includes documents without macro and docm means the document
which it contains macro.
i am not sure is it completely true or not,
because i read thats possible to add macro in to docx too.
walmir,
openoffice for me in my system hangs, nvda stopps working and i need
to end task of nvda in the taskManager to work again,
but i dont have this problem using libreoffice.
thanks everyone and God bless you all.

On 4/18/17, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io
<wsautodidata=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> wrote:
I am sorry, but OpenOffice is even worse than LibreOffice.

It appears that the problems are related to the complexity of the
documents. For example, a LibreOffice Calc file with many spreadsheets,
fixed lines, formulas related to cells in other spreadsheets cause NVDA
to stop working altogether, but only with LibreOffice. ALT TAB to other
programs and it is working. Go back to LibreOffice and it is muted.



Em 17/04/2017 14:51, Travis Siegel escreveu:
Just for reference, I installed open office version 4.3 today, and it
works just fine with NVDA.

At least it did for opening and editing a word file. Saving became
problematic, as it wanted me to save in odt format instead of doc,
since it said it would loose formatting information if I saved in the
original doc format, which makes no sense to me, since it was opened
in the original doc format, how could it loose information it already
has?

<shrug>

But, as for functionality, I had no issues.


On 4/17/2017 7:21 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io wrote:
For many months I resisted to do this.

But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA
was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.

I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what
changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies
the cause of the problem I described months ago.

Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears
that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING
SOLVED.

I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems
are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved
easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other
and search the causes.



Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to
show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to
do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with
the two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015,
but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.












--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Gene
 

In at least one of these programs, possibly both, some programs seem to work much better than others in  the suite, according to comments I've seen.  The word processor may work much better than one or more other programs do. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and LibreOfice annoyances - Two, three or many places?

I am sorry, but OpenOffice is even worse than LibreOffice.

It appears that the problems are related to the complexity of the
documents. For example, a LibreOffice Calc file with many spreadsheets,
fixed lines, formulas related to cells in other spreadsheets cause NVDA 
to stop working altogether, but only with LibreOffice. ALT TAB to other
programs and it is working. Go back to LibreOffice and it is muted.



Em 17/04/2017 14:51, Travis Siegel escreveu:
> Just for reference, I installed open office version 4.3 today, and it
> works just fine with NVDA.
>
> At least it did for opening and editing a word file.  Saving became
> problematic, as it wanted me to save in odt format instead of doc,
> since it said it would loose formatting information if I saved in the
> original doc format, which makes no sense to me, since it was opened
> in the original doc format, how could it loose information it already
> has?
>
> <shrug>
>
> But, as for functionality, I had no issues.
>
>
> On 4/17/2017 7:21 AM, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io wrote:
>> For many months I resisted to do this.
>>
>> But the only solution to this annoying behavior of LibreOffice/NVDA
>> was downgrading to LibreOffice 5.1.
>>
>> I don't have the patience, the knowledge or the time to look for what
>> changed from versions 5.1 to 5.2 of LibreOffice. but sure here lies
>> the cause of the problem I described months ago.
>>
>> Even if I don't like to use old versions of any software, it appears
>> that the problems of using LibreOffice with NVDA ARE FAR FROM BEING
>> SOLVED.
>>
>> I feell very sad because both programs are excellent and the problems
>> are just a few (but very annoying) and could very probably be solved
>> easily if both developers were willing to communicate with each other
>> and search the causes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:
>>> In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to
>>> show only two or three decimal places.
>>>
>>> But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.
>>>
>>> When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to
>>> do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with
>>> the two or three decimal places.
>>>
>>> I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015,
>>> but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>




 

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 01:21 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I think Microsoft in pressing ahead with the X formats are making a mistake, personally. Its certainly caused me to have to send them back to companies and explain in very detailed terms why these do not always work for everyone.

The docx format has been the standard MS-Office format for word processing since Office 2007.  It's not going away, period.

There are times, many of them, where we as individuals must configure ourselves to the world, not the other way around.  Insisting that anyone not use what has been the standard MS-Word file format for well over a decade now isn't going to get you anywhere.
--
Brian

     The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

            ~ Dorothy Nevill



 

Just FYI, OpenOffice can open files in .docx format without any difficulty, but it will not save in that format (at least up through version 4.1.2, which is where I stopped downloading OpenOffice).
--
Brian

     The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

            ~ Dorothy Nevill



 

openoffice does not support save as docx in any version of it.
but do you know whats the best, the most accessible and most stable
version of libreoffice?

On 4/18/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Just FYI, OpenOffice can open files in .docx format without any difficulty,
but it will not save in that format (at least up through version 4.1.2,
which is where I stopped downloading OpenOffice).
--
*Brian*

*     * *The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in
the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment.*

*           ~ Dorothy Nevill*

**
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


 

Nasrin,

          As a matter of policy I never use anything but the latest versions of open source or free software such as LibreOffice, so I really can't advise regarding what earlier versions are like.   I personally would not use an earlier version unless the latest has somehow become broken from an accessibility standpoint, and that's not particularly likely.
--
Brian

     The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

            ~ Dorothy Nevill



Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Excuse me, but LibreOffice is broken, at least when working with NVDA.

This is especially true with Calc.

At least in the case of decimal digits being announced in a different form that they are shown on the screen, the fault apparently is of LibreOffice 5.2.x


Em 18/04/2017 16:06, Brian Vogel escreveu:

Nasrin,

          As a matter of policy I never use anything but the latest versions of open source or free software such as LibreOffice, so I really can't advise regarding what earlier versions are like.   I personally would not use an earlier version unless the latest has somehow become broken from an accessibility standpoint, and that's not particularly likely.
--
Brian

     The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

            ~ Dorothy Nevill




 

walmir,
i remember that only i tested calc 5.2 with nvda one time and i was
not comfortable with it.
you can subscribe in
www.bugs.libreoffice.org
and report it for developers to fix it.
also did you try libreoffice 5.3 calc with nvda to see the result?

On 4/19/17, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io
<wsautodidata=yahoo.com.br@groups.io> wrote:
Excuse me, but LibreOffice is broken, at least when working with NVDA.

This is especially true with Calc.

At least in the case of decimal digits being announced in a different
form that they are shown on the screen, the fault apparently is of
LibreOffice 5.2.x


Em 18/04/2017 16:06, Brian Vogel escreveu:

Nasrin,

As a matter of policy I never use anything but the latest
versions of open source or free software such as LibreOffice, so I
really can't advise regarding what earlier versions are like. I
personally would not use an earlier version unless the latest has
somehow become broken from an accessibility standpoint, and that's not
particularly likely.
--
*/Brian/*

*//**/The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing
in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment./*

*/~ Dorothy Nevill/*

*//*



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Excuse me for my insistence, but...

The fact that a screen reader announces something different than that is shown in the screen is a very serious problem.

If we encounter this problem in a spreadsheet, the urgency of a solution is unquestionable.




Em 03/01/2017 10:00, Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io escreveu:

In a Calc spreadsheet I have some cells with numbers formatted to show only two or three decimal places.

But NVDA reads all digits before and after the decimal point.

When I copy the cell contents to the clipboard and use INSERT+C to do NVDA read the contents, the number is announced correctly, with the two or three decimal places.

I don't remember seeing this issue in LibreOffice 4 and NVDA 2015, but cannot tell wich program is causing the problem.



 

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 09:28 am, Walmir Schultz wrote:
The fact that a screen reader announces something different than that is shown in the screen is a very serious problem.

If we encounter this problem in a spreadsheet, the urgency of a solution is unquestionable.

It is only truly urgent, as opposed to a major annoyance, if what is being announced in reference to a number deprives you of the information you need.

If something is set to display two or three decimal places and NVDA reads five, as an example, you can still work with that.  Your description states that there is an excess of information, not a lack of it.

If you believe you've found a bug, and I believe you have, then reporting it via the NVDA Github bug reporting page is about all you can do.  Things get fixed in due time.
--
Brian

     The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

            ~ Dorothy Nevill



 

walmir,
if you did not have these problems in libreoffice 5.1 and you
incounter them only in 5.2 and later, you should subscribe in bugs
report for libreoffice and inform developers of libreoffice to fix
them.
www.bugs.libreoffice.org

On 4/19/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 09:28 am, Walmir Schultz wrote:


The fact that a screen reader announces something different than that is
shown in the screen is a very serious problem.

If we encounter this problem in a spreadsheet, the urgency of a solution
is unquestionable.
It is only truly urgent, as opposed to a major annoyance, if what is being
announced in reference to a number deprives you of the information you
need.

If something is set to display two or three decimal places and NVDA reads
five, as an example, you can still work with that.  Your description states
that there is an excess of information, not a lack of it.

If you believe you've found a bug, and I believe you have, then reporting it
via the NVDA Github bug reporting page is about all you can do.  Things get
fixed in due time.
--
*Brian*

*     * *The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in
the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting
moment.*

*           ~ Dorothy Nevill*

**
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org