Topics

controlling the mouse?


john s
 

I would find this mouse movement more exciting if the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of pixels.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi,
I find the golden cursor the most exciting NVDA add on, and here is exactly why. First of all, You can press a key command, and Golden cursor will tell you in pixels where the mouse pointer is on the screen. Left side is 0 in the X direction, and top is 0 in the y direction of the pointer. Golden Cursor gives you the pointer position in the X, first, then the Y. So, if Golden cursor says 34 748, then you know that the pointer is only 34 pixels from the left of the screen, and it is all of the way at the bottom of the screen 748 pixels from the top. Now, the default of the computer screen with win10 is: 1366 pixels from left to right, and 768 pixels from top to bottom. Now, the next best thing about the Golden cursor, is that you can save a mouse pointer position so that the pointer will go right to that spot. It is like setting a book mark for the mouse pointer. You just press the command, and put in the X number, and Y number, altogether without a space, and then space and describe what that position is,like a very important button in an app, for example. From now on, you can press a command that gives you a list of all saved positions, and you can just enter on the one you want, and the mouse pointer goes right to that spot. That is very powerful. Also, the Golden cursor add on allows you to move the mouse pointer with your arrow keys by so many pixels each time you press an arrow key. For example, you can set Golden cursor to move ten pixels to the right each time you press the right arrow. You just hold down the windows+NVDA as you press the arrow keys. That is very powerful, because you can move the pointer completely straight in a line up, down, right, or left. I have memorized many pixel positions of things on the computer screen because of Golden cursor. For example, the position of the start button is 24 pixels to the left, and 748 pixels to the bottom. So, in other words, the start button is in the very bottom left hand corner of the screen. The desktop icons, are in the top left half of the screen. You can press windows+NVDA+P to hear the position of the pointer by routing it to the review cursor on any object. Now, the review cursor moves with the system carrot, so you can simply go to a desktop icon, and press Windows+NVDA+P on any desktop icon, and hear the pixel position of that icon. You can then save that position, and then, you can later open the list of saved positions and enter on that position, and the mouse pointer will go right there. You can do this on the desktop with key commands, I know. But, what about places in programs where you cannot access a control any other way except for the mouse? This is where the golden cursor becomes the most important add on, I believe. You can have a sighted person put the mouse pointer on a spot, you can press Windows+NVDA+P and hear the pixel position of where a sighted person has put the mouse pointer. Now, you can save that position with Golden cursor. Then, you can go to that position from now on, without sighted help even if you are totally blind. That is how powerful the Golden cursor is. There is even more it does. Now, with NVDA itself, without the Golden cursor add on, you can still do a lot with the mouse. If you go to the preferences menu and go to the mouse settings, you can Turn on play beeps as you move the mouse pointer, either with a mouse, or on your mouse pad on a laptop. For example, as I move my finger over my touch pad on my laptop, with stereo head phones on, as I move the mouse pointer left, the sound comes more and more out of the left head phone. Moving it to the right does the opposite. If I move the pointer up, the tone gets higher in pitch. Moving it down, makes the tones go down in pitch. So, for example, If I hear a low pitch coming more from the right head phone, that means that the pointer is at the bottom of the screen more to the right side of the screen. That can tell you a lot right there. Also, NVDA tells you the text that the pointer is moving over. For example, if I am moving my finger, and I hear News app, I can click my touch pad, just like a sighted person would, to open the News App. Now, with the Golden cursor, I have the position of the pointer saved where my News App is, so I can move the pointer right there, click just like a sighted person, and the news app opens, and I can read the news with the mouse pointer. I can access many apps with the Golden cursor add on and moving the mouse pointer around the app. I hope that there are blind users that are interested in just how much you can do with the mouse, even if you are totally blind. I want to get people excited about this. The mouse is not just for the sighted. There are places in apps, that are used on the job, that only the mouse pointer can get to, and it is possible to use Golden Cursor to save the pointer position for that spot, and move the pointer to that spot, even if you are totally blind. I would like to talk to the developer of the Golden cursor about keeping it up and going, because I use it all the time, to access places in apps that cannot be accessed any other way.
I hope this helps some of your and everyone's questions about this topic.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controling the mouse?
 
There is also the Golden Cursor add-on.  Other members who use this on a regular basis can comment much better on its actual use than I can.
--
Brian

    I don't find an uninformed hatred a "principled position" that I need to respect in any way.

        ~ Ellen Evans, soc.motss, 11/6/2004

 
 

John


Antony Stone
 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
pixels.
--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


David Moore
 

Okay,

The most exciting part of the Golden cursor, though, is that a sighted person can position the mouse pointer on something that is totally not accessible to get to, and you can save that mouse position. Then later on, you can enter on that saved position, and the mouse pointer will move right to that spot, and you can click on that spot, just like a sighted person. I use apps, where I move the mouse pointer with the regular arrow keys around the app, and when I hear text, I can hear the mouse position, and then I can save that position. Also, by using the Golden cursor, you do not need to have a numpad on your laptop to move the mouse that way with the number pad. That is good too, because many laptops and tablets do not have number pads to be able to use the mouse keys.

Take care, all.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: john s
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 5:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I would find this mouse movement more exciting if the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of pixels.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi,
I find the golden cursor the most exciting NVDA add on, and here is exactly why. First of all, You can press a key command, and Golden cursor will tell you in pixels where the mouse pointer is on the screen. Left side is 0 in the X direction, and top is 0 in the y direction of the pointer. Golden Cursor gives you the pointer position in the X, first, then the Y. So, if Golden cursor says 34 748, then you know that the pointer is only 34 pixels from the left of the screen, and it is all of the way at the bottom of the screen 748 pixels from the top. Now, the default of the computer screen with win10 is: 1366 pixels from left to right, and 768 pixels from top to bottom. Now, the next best thing about the Golden cursor, is that you can save a mouse pointer position so that the pointer will go right to that spot. It is like setting a book mark for the mouse pointer. You just press the command, and put in the X number, and Y number, altogether without a space, and then space and describe what that position is,like a very important button in an app, for example. From now on, you can press a command that gives you a list of all saved positions, and you can just enter on the one you want, and the mouse pointer goes right to that spot. That is very powerful. Also, the Golden cursor add on allows you to move the mouse pointer with your arrow keys by so many pixels each time you press an arrow key. For example, you can set Golden cursor to move ten pixels to the right each time you press the right arrow. You just hold down the windows+NVDA as you press the arrow keys. That is very powerful, because you can move the pointer completely straight in a line up, down, right, or left. I have memorized many pixel positions of things on the computer screen because of Golden cursor. For example, the position of the start button is 24 pixels to the left, and 748 pixels to the bottom. So, in other words, the start button is in the very bottom left hand corner of the screen. The desktop icons, are in the top left half of the screen. You can press windows+NVDA+P to hear the position of the pointer by routing it to the review cursor on any object. Now, the review cursor moves with the system carrot, so you can simply go to a desktop icon, and press Windows+NVDA+P on any desktop icon, and hear the pixel position of that icon. You can then save that position, and then, you can later open the list of saved positions and enter on that position, and the mouse pointer will go right there. You can do this on the desktop with key commands, I know. But, what about places in programs where you cannot access a control any other way except for the mouse? This is where the golden cursor becomes the most important add on, I believe. You can have a sighted person put the mouse pointer on a spot, you can press Windows+NVDA+P and hear the pixel position of where a sighted person has put the mouse pointer. Now, you can save that position with Golden cursor. Then, you can go to that position from now on, without sighted help even if you are totally blind. That is how powerful the Golden cursor is. There is even more it does. Now, with NVDA itself, without the Golden cursor add on, you can still do a lot with the mouse. If you go to the preferences menu and go to the mouse settings, you can Turn on play beeps as you move the mouse pointer, either with a mouse, or on your mouse pad on a laptop. For example, as I move my finger over my touch pad on my laptop, with stereo head phones on, as I move the mouse pointer left, the sound comes more and more out of the left head phone. Moving it to the right does the opposite. If I move the pointer up, the tone gets higher in pitch. Moving it down, makes the tones go down in pitch. So, for example, If I hear a low pitch coming more from the right head phone, that means that the pointer is at the bottom of the screen more to the right side of the screen. That can tell you a lot right there. Also, NVDA tells you the text that the pointer is moving over. For example, if I am moving my finger, and I hear News app, I can click my touch pad, just like a sighted person would, to open the News App. Now, with the Golden cursor, I have the position of the pointer saved where my News App is, so I can move the pointer right there, click just like a sighted person, and the news app opens, and I can read the news with the mouse pointer. I can access many apps with the Golden cursor add on and moving the mouse pointer around the app. I hope that there are blind users that are interested in just how much you can do with the mouse, even if you are totally blind. I want to get people excited about this. The mouse is not just for the sighted. There are places in apps, that are used on the job, that only the mouse pointer can get to, and it is possible to use Golden Cursor to save the pointer position for that spot, and move the pointer to that spot, even if you are totally blind. I would like to talk to the developer of the Golden cursor about keeping it up and going, because I use it all the time, to access places in apps that cannot be accessed any other way.
I hope this helps some of your and everyone's questions about this topic.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controling the mouse?
 
There is also the Golden Cursor add-on.  Other members who use this on a regular basis can comment much better on its actual use than I can.
--
Brian

    I don't find an uninformed hatred a "principled position" that I need to respect in any way.

        ~ Ellen Evans, soc.motss, 11/6/2004

 
 

John

 


Gene
 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
is under the mouse being announced. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Gene
 

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Gene
 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Gene
 

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.




Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Gene


I totally agree with you with people getting to know how to use the other review modes as well.


they are not hard to learn and you only learn what you need to on how to use them

You do not need to know every shortcut say in object navigation, screen review or text review but enough to do the job.



I think where the golden cursor comes in to get to the same parts they have full control moving the mouse around and can build up a better picture of the layout of the screen.


Once they have got to the spot they want to make in to a hot spot with the mouse just on top of it, to save it to the list in that application and naming it is a blessing.


Even to bring back up the list of hot points in the application  gives you a list of all of them for that application. then it is a matter of finding the one you want then pressing the enter key on it and it will take you to that position so you can double left click for it to do its job.


Even if some one sighted puts the mouse on where a person would have to click then adds it as a hot point does the trick. Even moving your focus cursor to a position, then routing the mouse to it then hot pointing it as well does the trick.


they just also have to remember to have mouse tracking turned on so nvda will speak what is under the mouse.


Basically in short to new users it simplifies getting to a position if they do not fullly under stand the other reviews.


Gene nz



On 3/02/2017 2:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



-- 
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Also, check out which New Zealand libraries have the NVDA screen reader available by visiting the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.



On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.





Gene
 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.



On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.



On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.





David Moore
 

Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 


Gene
 

I am not a sighted person.  I do things in the best way I know for a blind person to do them.  If a technique a sighted person uses serves me better than another, I'll use it.  If a technique that works better for me as a blind person works better, I'll use it. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: jesusloves1966@...
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:52 AM
To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

Hi all,
 
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
 
David Moore
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
 
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
 
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
 
 
Gene
 
----- Original Message -----
 
From: Travis Siegel
 
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
 
 
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
 
 
In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.
 
 
 
 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
 
  I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
  
 
  Gene
 
  ----- Original Message -----
 
  From: Gene
 
  Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
 
 
  Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
  
 
  Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
  
 
  Gene
 
  ----- Original Message -----
 
  From: Travis Siegel
 
  Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
 
 
  Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
  
 
  The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.
 
  
 
  
 
  On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
 
    In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
    
 
    Gene
 
    
 
    There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
    
 
    If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
    
 
    I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
    
 
    Gene
 
    ----- Original Message -----
 
    From: Antony Stone
 
    Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
 
 
    Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
    
 
    If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
    we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
    the mouse pointer around.
 
    The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
    object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.
 

    Antony.
 
    On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:
 
    > I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
    > the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
    > pixels.
 
    --
    All generalisations are inaccurate.
 
                                                       Please reply to the list;
                                                             please *don't* CC me.
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 


 

I half aggree with you jean.
Being that I work with tech, I am always translating the commands from mice to keyboards, sometimes the mouse works sometimes it flat out doesn't.
I rarely use it as much as I should.
I do know that in some ways a touch pad is easier.
In fact a cheap no frills logitech pad is barely 20 bucks here which is cheaper than the cheapest mouse which is 30-40 bucks for a basic one here.
Ofcause these pads are self contained.
Ie you plug it in, and windows tries to find what it is.
It triggers it to then somehow go online and get the drivers for itself and install itself so its either got drivers in firmware or knows where online to get those drivers.
Once those are installed the firmware and drivers will autoupdate themselves.
To be honest, if I did what a blindy would do I wouldn't use windows, just dos, I wouldn't use anything bar a keynote or jaws because that was what I was taught.
In most cases we can use most things as a sighted would do, we do use more shortcuts which can be an advantage but its still the sighted way of doing things.
Gaming we still have a bit to go mouse wise but if you really want to be serious there are joysticks and game pads anyway.
The idea of the old mouse is changing and thats a good thing.
TTs and voice recognition are also more excepted.
Even screen reading to some extent is still accepted.
Ofcause anything to graphical is still a problem but with acception with most security software and some video converting and recording apps most stuff does work to some extent.
I actually think it needs to be the other way round, the sighted should do more things the blind way.
For example how many people do you know or have been seen/ heard by you hitting the wrong key or going all round the screen.
For the blind person we know what to do and we just do it and it works!
On the flip side we can miss things so take your pick.
For me as long as the system boots, and I get sound I can service computers with a sound card, a usb headset, and a keyboard and have no screen unless something hoses itself fully.
In an extreme version of this about 15 years back when we had win 98 going xp, my brother had a system we decided to clear the dust out of with an air compresser.
We have gotten a bit better with this, but the last time we managed to blast several chips off the main board.
The unit was old anyway, however it just stopped booting and when it did, all video stopped.
I was able to get the data backed up to several cds and transfer it over.
If I needed sight, I'd have to take it to our friendly computer fix it guy, and he would have to recover the drives or something.
This would take more time and cost more cash.
In addition I have had it where repair shops have done bad things to systems, ie loaded them with malware and offers, not cleared themselves up, etc, etc.
Anyway I had the experience where they charged for backup and transfer and when we tried to nagotiate, all the drives, both backup and primary were reformatted, they refused to aknowledge the issue we were having and all data including backups were scrubbed.
The company used went bust shortly after and granted this was an extreme case but it was a lot faster and in that case I was happy to not be sighted.
I can slso via standard shortcuts get access to things faster than the sighted.
I think the sighted are in some ways more blind than the blind are sighted.
They read a manual and well if it doesn't work they go crying to support.
I never recieved training as such, I branched out by looking and seeing what things did.
True I did end up destroying and rebuilding my unit several times but I got to know what I needed.
That concept plus a lot of others are gone with windows, and later tech but you get the idea.
Mainstream has come a long while to when I was a boy, and so I just can't fully agree with your statement.
I do think in the end you need to use your gut and see what happens.
If I did everything the blind way, I wouldn't be online, my training wasn't to use modern computers.

On 3/02/2017 9:07 p.m., Gene wrote:
I am not a sighted person. I do things in the best way I know for a blind person to do them. If a technique a sighted person uses serves me better than another, I'll use it. If a technique that works better for me as a blind person works better, I'll use it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: jesusloves1966@...
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:52 AM
To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?


Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



I didn't say that. I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor. I also said that the left click command is numpad slash. Just numpad slash by itself.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse. I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination. That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with. Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.





On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page. No such commands are given.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on? The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know. For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated. For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question. I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.





On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse. That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.



Gene



There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know. But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review. Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find. And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something. But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.



If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash. Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash. I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command. In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object. You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.



I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage. But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?



If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.













--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




 

Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.
We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings may think of us.
I say this as politely as I can.
It is beneath me to show off.
We should be trying to intergrate.
I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech, oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.
Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first and foremost a blind person using a computer.
Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!
I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major advantage over the sighted.
Who cares what they think anyway.
At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include ourselves in making them make as much accessible.
If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.
Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use msse for example.
I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.
We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.
We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.
I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.
We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.
If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.
If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.
By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.
Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.
That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.
Showing off could be a risky business.

On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

I didn't say that. I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor. I also said that the left click command is numpad slash. Just numpad slash by itself.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse. I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination. That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with. Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.


On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page. No such commands are given.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on? The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know. For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated. For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question. I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.


On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse. That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

Gene

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know. But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review. Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find. And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something. But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash. Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash. I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command. In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object. You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage. But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
pixels.


David Moore
 

Hi Shaun,

I think you are talking to me, David. I am the one who talked about forming that visual picture. However, I totally agree with you Shaun! I have sighted friends using key commands, and they agree that it is much faster. I have shown people how to do things in computer labs, and I did two key commands and had them going. Sighted only know that mouse, and they are lost and fool around and try for an hour to find something. I am 50, so the DOS days were the most exciting time for me. Wow, I helped supervisors where I worked, because they did not know the DOS commands; therefore, they could not use a computer. I had the DOS commands memorized, so I had high up supervisors coming to me for help using their computers LOLOL! I like to get people thinking. There is the problem on the job with telling your boss what you are trying to do with your screen reader. That is why it is good to be able to translate from mouse to key commands and the other way around. We need to tell our boss words like that we are trying to click. If we tell a co-worker that we are trying to get the applications key working, they will not know what we are talking about. We should know that the applications brings up the same context menu as the right click does. We then can say right click instead of applications key and so on. That is just a small point I am trying to get across. However, the sighted could learn a lot from the blind, and I make sure they learn from me. The computer is a grand machine, because we can control it in so many different ways. I agree as well, that the sighted are using more and more of what the blind use, like e-books, and audio books to listen to while they are driving. Talking to a device is becoming very universal, that is true. Many CEO's are talking to their computers, because they do not have time to type. Take care, Shaun, I really enjoyed your well thought out post. This has been fun. I would like to talk about tearing computers apart all day. Shaun, my email is:

Jesusloves1966@...

Give me a shout, I would really like to talk with you.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I half aggree with you jean.

Being that I work with tech, I am always translating the commands from

mice to keyboards, sometimes the mouse works sometimes it flat out doesn't.

I rarely use it as much as I should.

I do know that in some ways a touch pad is easier.

In fact a cheap no frills logitech pad is barely 20 bucks here which is

cheaper than the cheapest mouse which is 30-40 bucks for a basic one here.

Ofcause these pads are self contained.

Ie you plug it in, and windows tries to find what it is.

It triggers it to then somehow go online and get the drivers for itself

and install itself so its either got drivers in firmware or knows where

online to get those drivers.

Once those are installed the firmware and drivers will autoupdate

themselves.

To be honest, if I did what a blindy would do I wouldn't use windows,

just dos, I wouldn't use anything bar a keynote or jaws because that was

what I was taught.

In most cases we can use most things as a sighted would do, we do use

more shortcuts which can be an advantage but its still the sighted way

of doing things.

Gaming we still have a bit to go mouse wise but if you really want to be

serious there are joysticks and game pads anyway.

The idea of the old mouse is changing and thats a good thing.

TTs and voice recognition are also more excepted.

Even screen reading to some extent is still accepted.

Ofcause anything to graphical is still a problem but with acception with

most security software and some video converting and recording apps most

stuff does work to some extent.

I actually think it needs to be the other way round, the sighted should

do more things the blind way.

For example how many people do you know or have been seen/ heard by you

hitting the wrong key or going all round the screen.

For the blind person we know what to do and we just do it and it works!

On the flip side we can miss things so take your pick.

For me as long as the system boots, and I get sound I can service

computers with a sound card, a usb headset, and a keyboard and have no

screen unless something hoses itself fully.

In an extreme version of this about 15 years back when we had win 98

going xp, my brother had a system we decided to clear the dust out of

with an air compresser.

We have gotten a bit better with this, but the last time we managed to

blast several chips off the main board.

The unit was old anyway, however it just stopped booting and when it

did, all video stopped.

I was able to get the data backed up to several cds and transfer it over.

If I needed sight, I'd have to take it to our friendly computer fix it

guy, and he would have to recover the drives or something.

This would take more time and cost more cash.

In addition I have had it where repair shops have done bad things to

systems, ie loaded them with malware and offers, not cleared themselves

up, etc, etc.

Anyway I had the experience where they charged for backup and transfer

and when we tried to nagotiate, all the drives, both backup and primary

were reformatted, they refused to aknowledge the issue we were having

and all data including backups were scrubbed.

The company used went bust shortly after and granted this was an extreme

case but it was a lot faster and in that case I was happy to not be sighted.

I can slso via standard shortcuts get access to things faster than the

sighted.

I think the sighted are in some ways more blind than the blind are sighted.

They read a manual and well if it doesn't work they go crying to support.

I never recieved training as such, I branched out by looking and seeing

what things did.

True I did end up destroying and rebuilding my unit several times but I

got to know what I needed.

That concept plus a lot of others are gone with windows, and later tech

but you get the idea.

Mainstream has come a long while to when I was a boy, and so I just

can't fully agree with your statement.

I do think in the end you need to use your gut and see what happens.

If I did everything the blind way, I wouldn't be online, my training

wasn't to use modern computers.

 

 

 

On 3/02/2017 9:07 p.m., Gene wrote:

> I am not a sighted person.  I do things in the best way I know for a blind person to do them.  If a technique a sighted person uses serves me better than another, I'll use it.  If a technique that works better for me as a blind person works better, I'll use it.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: jesusloves1966@...

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:52 AM

> To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: RE: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

>   I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

>   Gene

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: Gene

>   Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>   Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

>   Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

>   Gene

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: Travis Siegel

>   Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

>   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>   Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

>   The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

>   On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

>     In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

>     Gene

>     There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

>     If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

>     I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

>     Gene

>     ----- Original Message -----

>     From: Antony Stone

>     Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

>     To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>     Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

>     If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

>     we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

>     the mouse pointer around.

>     The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

>     object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

>     Antony.

>     On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>     > I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>     > the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>     > pixels.

>     --

>     All generalisations are inaccurate.

>                                                        Please reply to the list;

>                                                              please *don't* CC me.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 


David Moore
 

Hi Shaun,

I was not trying to show off at all. I am humble as they get, knowing that anytime I could be snuffed out it was not for the lord. That is not what I am saying at all. I just think that we should be altogether as human beeings instead of blindys, sightlings, and so on. Why can everybody just see each other as human beeings. I want to know about the sighted world, and the sighted world should want to know about the blind world. I have many blind friends who have the attitude that the sighted are the enany that is slowing them down. I don't see it that way at all. Sighted people forget that I am blind, because I do not go around shouting that I am blind, look at me, I am blind. I just talk to every human beeing the same way. I do not like labels at all for any people. I tell sighted people about how great it is to be blind all of the time, and I constantly have my sighted friends using my cane, learning some Braille, because they think it is fun. Every sighted person has told me that I am not bitter like so many other blind people are. There are blind people who are bitter toward the sighted, and that is not integrating. There are blind people who think they are so much better than a sighted person. We all need to talk about what we have in common instead of what is different about us all of the time. The sighted is not the enimy of the blind, like so many blind people think. I have had sighted people bend over backward to make something accessible for me. I am just saying that at work, for example, we need to say right click instead of applications to our boss, or they will not know what we are talking about. We, as blind people, need to speak some sighted lingo if we are going to make it in the work world. In my opinion, the majority wins. In my mind, because the world is dominately sighted, the blind need to try a lot harder to get along with the sighted than the other way around. This is where many different minorities disagree with me. We need to work so hard to get the majority to get along with us, because we are in the minority. That is not a popular way for minorities to think these days I sure know. That is what I think. The sighted owe us nothing. The sighted do not have to make things accessible for us if they do not want to. We need to do what we need by ourselves to make all things accessible. The sighted owe us nothing. I work night and day to fit into the majority, the sighted. I do not expect the sighted to fit in with me, because I am the minority. I hope that makes since to some people. The minority needs to work so hard to be included into the majority instead of the other way around. That is just reality.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 4:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Hay man, I actually am slightly offended about it.

We are blind not poor helpless retarded idiots much as some sightlings

may think of us.

I say this as politely as I can.

It is beneath me to show off.

We should be trying to intergrate.

I have an aunt that when seeing me doing things ie with my special tech,

oh he can use a screen reader for the blind good for him.

Its not that I have something to read the screen, but that I am first

and foremost a blind person using a computer.

Ie I have a cane, oh, the poor dumb helpless blind can walk!

I havn't as yet figured out golden curser, but the keyboard has a major

advantage over the sighted.

Who cares what they think anyway.

At any case we should be to every extent possible be trying to include

ourselves in making them make as much accessible.

If we show off to much they may stop and we will be in more trouble.

Most security software is just not fully accessible, its why I still use

msse for example.

I don't usually raise my voice but to me its a bit risky to show off.

We are blind! not dumb and retarded idiots.

We should never show off, showing off is what people do to hide

themselves, and to look cool and to hide the fact they suck.

I had a friend that used to do that and he was hard to get on with.

We need to be accepted as we are first and foremost.

If we showoff we are looking cheap, and that could get us treated different.

If I am getting this wrongly please say, this after all is only text.

By all means show but not show off or at least don't flaunt.

Even if its a good skill, I do do things and people are impressed, but

I don't brag it to the entire universe unless I know it will be excepted.

That does not include the entire net its just not a good thing to take.

Showing off could be a risky business.

 

 

 

On 3/02/2017 8:52 p.m., David Moore wrote:

> Hi all,

> There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

> David Moore

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

> On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

> I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Gene

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Travis Siegel

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

> On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

> In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

> Gene

> There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation.

> If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point.

> I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Antony Stone

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

> If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think

> we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move

> the mouse pointer around.

> The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an

> object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.

> Antony.

> On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

>> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if

>> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of

>> pixels.

 

 

 


john s
 

I don't mind moving the mouse pointer when I have to and I use Window Eyes mouse keys to do so.  Otherwise, I don't care where something is on the screen as long as I can get to it, first with keystrokes and then with mouse keys.


earlier, David Moore, wrote:

Hi all,
There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 
 
On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:
In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.
 
Gene
 
There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 
 
If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 
 
I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Stone
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?
 
If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 

 
 

John


Dejan Ristic
 

I agree with you, although I am blind since I was born. I am 34 now, but I want to have a visual understanding, too.


On 2/3/2017 8:52 AM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 

 

 





David Moore
 

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

That is all I am saying. I am not trying to make blind people feel like they are stupid, retarded, and on and on. I am just saying that I, and I know other blind people who want a sighted perspective. Thank you so much, I could not have said what I mean any better.

Take care, and have a great one.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dejan Ristic
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 6:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I agree with you, although I am blind since I was born. I am 34 now, but I want to have a visual understanding, too.

 

On 2/3/2017 8:52 AM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all,

There is something else that excites me about the golden cursor. I like to be able to do a task like a sighted person does instead of always using navigation commands. It is harder to move the mouse instead of using object review or screen review, and routing the mouse to that spot. However, when I can move my mouse around and find a control in a program with the mouse pointer, it sure gives me a sense of satisfaction. I get so excited, when I can do something like a sighted person. I use object and screen review to the max, and do everything I can with key commands, but it really excites me when I can move the mouse pointer around and find something just like a sighted person. When I show a sighted person how I move the mouse pointer and save positions with Golden cursor, that excites them about my assistive technology much more than when they see me using key commands. We all need to show off what we can do to sighted friends, to get the sighted excited about what the blind can do. So, there is a reason to use the Golden cursor for excitement and fun, and not just to get the job done. I don't like to just get the job done. I like to get a visual picture of everything and do something just like I would if I was sighted. I don't know if any of you feel that way or not. I want the sighted seeing my technology, as well as the blind. Moving the mouse with Golden cursor, is something sighted friends can really relate to, because they use the mouse. I only use a computer a third of the time to get the job done. The other two thirds of the time is to be adventurous and try doing tasks different ways, and always be researching how something might be done. A lot of inventions have been made by doing just that, not just getting the job done. I am a research person, not someone who just wants to get the job done. Maybe that is why I get excited over something like Golden cursor, because you can actually move the mouse around. I can't stress enough, that it really helps the blind to have a visual picture of where everything is on the screen. If you always use key commands, you do not know the visual layout, and where things are in your mind. I am a very visual person even though I am blind, if that makes sense. I had half of my sight until I was 15, and I constantly think as I saw then. I am 50 now, and I still have good light perception. Maybe that makes a difference of why I have to have a visual picture of everything to be happy. Only using key commands, a blind person is left without a visual reference. I am always asking sighted people where the mouse is on the computer screen if I am using JAWS. This is why I love NVDA and Golden Cursor, because I can hear in pixels of where something is on the screen, and get a picture in my mind of where that is. No matter what I do, even with key commands, I want to see it in my mind like I am looking at the screen. Does anyone else feel like this. I learn better if I can see something in my mind instead of just memorizing a bunch of key commands and not having a visual reference of what those commands are doing on the screen. It is the same with me and a phone. I want to picture the icons and everything. I wish NVDA told us what the icons looked like, what color they are and so on. Let me know what you think about all of this. Let us love technology as well as just getting the job done. Take care, guys,

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

I didn't say that.  I said that numpad insert numpad slash moves the mouse to the location of the review cursor.  I also said that the left click command is numpad slash.  Just numpad slash by itself. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:14 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

In your original email, you said that numpad zero/insert and the slash key would move the cursor to the location of the mouse.  I'm saying that command performs a left click, it does not move the mouse cursor (or any other cursor) anywhere, if you want to move the cursor, you want the shift-numpad-dash key combination.  That's all I'm saying now, and that's all I said to start with.  Go back and read your email again (I did), and it clearly says move the cursor with the numpad and slash key combo, that information is incorrect, I simply corrected that information, that's all, this doesn't have to be a long drawn out thread, simply to correct a key combination.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 12:26 PM, Gene wrote:

I just looked at the commands given on the Golden Cursor page.  No such commands are given.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 11:12 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

Are you giving commands for NVDA or the Golden cursor add on?  The commands may be correct for the Golden Cursor add on, I don't know.  For NVDA the move mouse to review position is as I stated.  For NVDA, to click the mouse command is numpad slash. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

The command to move the focus to something is shift-numpad zero-dash This will move the actual focus of the mouse to the position in question.  I believe the numpad zero-slash key simulates a left button click, not actual focus movement.

 

 

On 2/2/2017 8:23 AM, Gene wrote:

In the first copy of this message I sent to the list I mistakenly have a phrase at the end that says something like announce items under the mouse.  That was an error and I have removed it from this copy.

 

Gene

 

There may be objects you can find with the mouse that you can't find using object review or screen review, I don't know.  But much of what is being described in terms of looking at a screen and finding things can be done with screen review or object review.  Sometimes, one of those modes finds something another doesn't find.  And the thing about the Golden cursor, as I understand it, is that you can set pixel points to move immediately to something.  But people who don't properly learn to use object navigation and screen review are doing themselves a disservice if they are advanced users and want to do things that can't be done with standard keyboard navigation. 

 

If you find something using object review or screen review and want to move the simulated mouse to it, using the desktop layout, the command to move the mouse is numpad insert numpad slash.  Hold numpad insert and, while doing so, press numpad slash.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know the command.  In most cases, the mouse will now be at the position of the object.  You should now be able to use the Golden cursor to set a return point. 

 

I haven't used the Golden cursor because I don't use programs where doing so is an advantage.  But as I understand the description given of how to use it, a good deal of the excitement is the result of not using object navigation and screen review to advantage. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:41 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] controlling the mouse?

 

If NVDA could know where all the interesting or useful objects were, I think
we'd have a far better way of interacting with them instead of having to move
the mouse pointer around.

The problem (or at least one of them) is that you often don't know where an
object is or what it can do until you put the mouse pointer on top of it.


Antony.

On Thursday 02 February 2017 at 11:26:41, john s wrote:

> I would find this mouse movement more exciting if
> the pointer would move from object to object rather than by number of
> pixels.

--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

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