using physical mouse with nvda?


 

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

as far as I know the program does scroll

when nvda is not running.
can you give me a example of a site that does allow scrolling so I can make sure that I am not doing something wrong?

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



 

Just as a data point, when I'm using an external mouse with a scroll wheel on the laptop I'm typing on, and NVDA is active, the scroll wheel still performs the scroll function in Chrome, Firefox, MS-Word, and the Everything Search results window.

There can occasionally be a slight lag when one has shifted to a new window with NVDA active, but even that is no more than a second or two before the scroll wheel will work again.
--
Brian

     The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

            ~ Dorothy Nevill



Quentin Christensen
 

Which program are you using?  As Brian noted, most of the major browsers (and I just checked Internet Explorer and Edge as well and they work) should scroll using the mouse wheel.  Can you give an example of a web page / browser / other app that won't scroll with the mouse wheel while NVDA is running please?

Also, what version of Windows are you running?  I don't think that should make a difference, but worth checking.

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 4:13 AM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

as far as I know the program does scroll

when nvda is not running.
can you give me a example of a site that does allow scrolling so I can make sure that I am not doing something wrong?
On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Quentin Christensen
 

Interesting, which program are you referring to?



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

internet explorer


On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Interesting, which program are you referring to?



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Quentin Christensen
 

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer


On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Interesting, which program are you referring to?



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer


On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Interesting, which program are you referring to?



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Gene
 

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 
 
I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 
 
In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  
 
One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: The Wolf
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer


On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Interesting, which program are you referring to?



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Quentin Christensen
 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.

We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.

The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 
 
I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 
 
In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  
 
One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: The Wolf
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer


On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Interesting, which program are you referring to?



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank


On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Hank,

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

Regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


David Moore
 

Hi all,

Just tonight, my keyboard quit working on my laptop. I was able to move the mouse pointer with NVDA and right click on the start button, and I could use my touch pad until I heard NVDA say power, and I left clicked on that, and I was able to restart my computer. I did all of that with moving the mouse when the keyboard would not work. When my computer came back on, my key board worked great! So, I think that is a pretty good example of how I was able to move the mouse pointer around to get the job done. I practice a lot moving my fingers around the touch pad, and I can move the mouse to places where no keyboard commands will move the mouse pointer. I do not agree that totally blind users cannot benefit by using the mouse feature in NVDA and Narrator.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I agree it is pointless.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


David Moore
 

Did you read my example of shutting down my computer with the mouse, because my keyboard did not work until I restarted it?

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dennis L
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 5:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

I agree it is pointless.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank





 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Quentin Christensen
 

Ok that's a good use, well done!  I meant that it isn't usually the most efficient method of navigation.  Obviously in your case tonight, there weren't many other alternatives (short of having a spare keyboard lying around).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 7:27 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Just tonight, my keyboard quit working on my laptop. I was able to move the mouse pointer with NVDA and right click on the start button, and I could use my touch pad until I heard NVDA say power, and I left clicked on that, and I was able to restart my computer. I did all of that with moving the mouse when the keyboard would not work. When my computer came back on, my key board worked great! So, I think that is a pretty good example of how I was able to move the mouse pointer around to get the job done. I practice a lot moving my fingers around the touch pad, and I can move the mouse to places where no keyboard commands will move the mouse pointer. I do not agree that totally blind users cannot benefit by using the mouse feature in NVDA and Narrator.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Gene
 

What is the default for just pressing the power button in Windows.  It's been so long since I've checked that I don't remember.  If the default is to shut down, theen just using the power buitton would have shut down the computer and you could then have booted again.  Much faster and more efficient than using the mouse.  There may be the occasion when using a physical mouse is the only or best means of doing something, but seldom.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

Ok that's a good use, well done!  I meant that it isn't usually the most efficient method of navigation.  Obviously in your case tonight, there weren't many other alternatives (short of having a spare keyboard lying around).

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 7:27 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Just tonight, my keyboard quit working on my laptop. I was able to move the mouse pointer with NVDA and right click on the start button, and I could use my touch pad until I heard NVDA say power, and I left clicked on that, and I was able to restart my computer. I did all of that with moving the mouse when the keyboard would not work. When my computer came back on, my key board worked great! So, I think that is a pretty good example of how I was able to move the mouse pointer around to get the job done. I practice a lot moving my fingers around the touch pad, and I can move the mouse to places where no keyboard commands will move the mouse pointer. I do not agree that totally blind users cannot benefit by using the mouse feature in NVDA and Narrator.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:47 AM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Quentin,

 

I agree with you and Gene about using the physical mouse with NVDA. I tried using the mouse one time and it was very difficult. I think you'd almost have to have a little bit of vision to be able to use a mouse.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

As Gene noted, there is little reason for a totally blind user to use the mouse, both because without being able to see where you are moving, it is very hard to get it exactly where you need, and often it is easier to use the keyboard to jump to particular elements.

 

If there is a specific page you are having trouble accessing that you can post the URL for here, I can have a look and try and give some pointers.


We do have a few low vision users who might have enough sight to use the mouse to get to a particular page and point on a page, but then rely on NVDA to read the text.  NVDA can read the text under the mouse pointer.  Press NVDA+m to toggle mouse tracking on or off - when on, it will read the text under the mouse pointer as you move the mouse.


The review cursor and object navigation can often be used to get to parts of the screen that regular navigation may not work with, and there are NVDA commands to click the left or right mouse buttons, but usually these are used as workarounds when other navigation fails in a particular instance.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I'll give you my perspective as a blind user who hasn't used a physical mouse.  Perhaps some people will disagree, I don't know.  But my comments may help clarify matters or lead to more clarifying discussion. 

 

I suspect that you are trying to use the mouse in ways that are not intended by NVDA designers.  For example, in all the years I've been on this list, I've never heard of blind users using the scroll wheel.  I've heard of people moving around the screen with a mouse to get the layout.  If you want to use the mouse to get an idea of how a screen is laid out, that can evidently be done.  but NVDA is intended for blind users primarily to be used from the keyboardwhen using browse mode.  You are not interacting with a web page directly when you use browse mode.  You are interacting with a reformatted version of the page in the MSAA or whatever it's called now, buffer.  The whole point is to move as though there is a cursor using the keyboard.  I've been told by a friend that sighted relatives and readers can't use the Internet while her screen-reader is active because the virtual PC cursor, the same thing as browse mode, makes usual ways of doing things, such as scrolling, however it is attempted with a mouse, not work.  I've heard of numerous instances where blind people move around one screen, the current one, when using a browser and a mouse.  But that's very different than scrolling.  You could probably scroll if you turn off browse mode but what's the point?  You can't read as intended with a screen-reader if you do that. 

 

In other programs, such as Microsoft Word or programs that don't use browse mode, I would imagine you could scroll.  But again, why?  I've wondered now and then, if I've found a control I can't work with on an Internet page from the keyboard if I could do so by using a mouse to click on it.  But that's completely different from scrolling and trying somehow to read with a mouse.  

 

One question is what it makes sense to do with a physical mouse as a blind person and another question is technically, in browse mode, what can you do not just with NVDA but with any screen-reader that uses browse mode?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: The Wolf

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:23 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] using physical mouse with nvda?

 

ah
that would explain why iy wasn't talking to me when I was trying to scroll down a page.
can you suggest a rpogram that can let me scroll down using the mouse?
I am trying to get the hang of using a mouse its totally forin to me.
also I am totally blind
thanks
Hank

On 7/19/2017 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I can use the mouse wheel to scroll in Internet Explorer, at least on Windows 10.

 

Do you mean have the mouse wheel move the focus for NVDA though?  It doesn't currently do that - what I can do is use the mouse wheel to smoothly scroll the page visually.

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:59 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

internet explorer

 

On 7/19/2017 8:40 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Interesting, which program are you referring to?

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:14 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello

found this in a list of back logged emails

that I have saved.
when I do use the mouse to scroll down using the program with nvda not running then it scrolls when nvda is running it does not.
Hank

On 3/20/2017 3:54 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Hank,

 

Silly question, but does the mouse wheel scroll down in the program you are using if NVDA is not running?

 

I have enough sight to use the mouse as well, and I find sometimes, particularly on say the web, I will grab the mouse if I do want to scroll down and read something further down because I can use the scroll wheel for that.

 

Regards


Quentin.

 

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:

Hello this may sound like a odd question but how do you make the weel on the mouse to scroll down? when I try to use the mouse with nvda the weel on the mouse doesn't do anything.

thanks

Hank






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


 

Well, I'll disagree that it's pointless for someone who's totally blind to use the mouse with NVDA (or their finger on a laptop or all-in-one touch screen) to get a "quick and dirty" idea of what's on a given screen, particularly a webpage.

I've used that concept with a number of my clients who are trying to do web research and need to make quick decisions about whether a given webpage is something they need to dig in to further or can just chuck and move along to the next thing.  You can very often get a very good idea, and very quickly, about what's on a page using mouse navigation that's far more tedious to accomplish by looking at, say, the list of links on a page, of which there are always scads more "junk links" than content links and that a screen reader has to present, but that are strategically placed on a screen, usually at the very top margin or very bottom
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


 

And that last message should have said "mouse tracking" rather than "mouse navigation," though if you land on a button or link you want to follow you can, if you so choose, just click.

This generally works much better with either a mouse pad or a touch screen than a real mouse on a conventional monitor, but even that can work once you get the hang of it.   Not everyone, or even the majority, will want to bother but it's worth giving a try.  Now JAWS is also doing the equivalent of mouse tracking in JAWS 18.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr