Aria-live and interactive fiction


Sukil Etxenike <sukiletxe@...>
 

Hi,

Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite", aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):

adverbum - Parchment



Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>). That works properly...

Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much,


Sukil



Jacob Kruger
 

Which browser are you making use of?


Ask since in chrome and firefox, I get no automatic feedback, but, the content is being updated, but, in chrome, the auto-completion in the edit field seems to be interfering at times.


However, if I try that out with internet explorer 11, then it handles it like you probably want it to - seems to read out next bit of feedback, etc. nicely, but, just gave it a very quick try.


I myself implement aria-live="assertive", and, role="alert" to get NVDA, etc. to read out content changes, but, haven't played around with the other ones yet.


Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-07 09:50, Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,

Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite", aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):

adverbum - Parchment



Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>). That works properly...

Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much,


Sukil




Sukil Etxenike <sukiletxe@...>
 

Hi,

I use Firefox and Chrome.

Doesn't role = alert force the interruption of text as it arrives on screen, and prepend the word "alert" to it?

Regards,
Sukil

El 07/04/2017 a las 10:16, Jacob Kruger escribió:

Which browser are you making use of?


Ask since in chrome and firefox, I get no automatic feedback, but, the content is being updated, but, in chrome, the auto-completion in the edit field seems to be interfering at times.


However, if I try that out with internet explorer 11, then it handles it like you probably want it to - seems to read out next bit of feedback, etc. nicely, but, just gave it a very quick try.


I myself implement aria-live="assertive", and, role="alert" to get NVDA, etc. to read out content changes, but, haven't played around with the other ones yet.


Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-07 09:50, Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,

Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite", aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):

adverbum - Parchment



Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>). That works properly...

Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much,


Sukil





Jacob Kruger
 

At times, but, really depends on what you want - I use that for actual alerts, but, avoiding popup dialogues, so, if you just wanted text to get announced, aria-live="assertive" should handle it - "polite" seems to get avoided/ignored a bit too often, but, like said, really depends on rest of page contents, etc.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-07 10:30, Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,

I use Firefox and Chrome.

Doesn't role = alert force the interruption of text as it arrives on screen, and prepend the word "alert" to it?

Regards,
Sukil

El 07/04/2017 a las 10:16, Jacob Kruger escribió:

Which browser are you making use of?


Ask since in chrome and firefox, I get no automatic feedback, but, the content is being updated, but, in chrome, the auto-completion in the edit field seems to be interfering at times.


However, if I try that out with internet explorer 11, then it handles it like you probably want it to - seems to read out next bit of feedback, etc. nicely, but, just gave it a very quick try.


I myself implement aria-live="assertive", and, role="alert" to get NVDA, etc. to read out content changes, but, haven't played around with the other ones yet.


Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-07 09:50, Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,

Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite", aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):

adverbum - Parchment



Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>). That works properly...

Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much,


Sukil






Brennen Kinch
 

i have this problem with the textadventures.co/uk websight using internet explorer on the computer and safari on the iphone

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 7, 2017, at 5:53 AM, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:

At times, but, really depends on what you want - I use that for actual alerts, but, avoiding popup dialogues, so, if you just wanted text to get announced, aria-live="assertive" should handle it - "polite" seems to get avoided/ignored a bit too often, but, like said, really depends on rest of page contents, etc.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-07 10:30, Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,

I use Firefox and Chrome.

Doesn't role = alert force the interruption of text as it arrives on screen, and prepend the word "alert" to it?

Regards,
Sukil

El 07/04/2017 a las 10:16, Jacob Kruger escribió:

Which browser are you making use of?


Ask since in chrome and firefox, I get no automatic feedback, but, the content is being updated, but, in chrome, the auto-completion in the edit field seems to be interfering at times.


However, if I try that out with internet explorer 11, then it handles it like you probably want it to - seems to read out next bit of feedback, etc. nicely, but, just gave it a very quick try.


I myself implement aria-live="assertive", and, role="alert" to get NVDA, etc. to read out content changes, but, haven't played around with the other ones yet.


Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-07 09:50, Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi,

Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite", aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):

adverbum - Parchment



Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>). That works properly...

Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much,


Sukil






 

Not sure but parchment seems to be quite old now, it works well enough especially for complex games for me if you don't use a glulx zcode or tads interpreter offline which I do sometimes do this works really well.

On 7/04/2017 7:50 p.m., Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,

Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite", aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):

adverbum - Parchment <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/adverbum.z5>



Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>). That works properly...

Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.

Any thoughts?

Thanks very much,


Sukil



Felix G.
 

Hi!
Since I'm a huge fan of IF myself, I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good interpreter for ZCode and Glulx games which works well with NVDA in terms of automatically announcing new text and interrupting when I press a key. Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe do have built-in speech but that cannot be interrupted, and when using them without speech NVDA does not announce new content as it is printed even though I have installed an add-on for this. Any suggestions? Maybe just the add-on that needs updating?
Kind regards,
Felix

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> schrieb am Sa., 8. Apr. 2017 um 02:47 Uhr:

Not sure but parchment seems to be quite old now, it works well enough
especially for complex games for me if you don't use a glulx zcode or
tads interpreter offline which I do sometimes do this works really well.




On 7/04/2017 7:50 p.m., Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All
> these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite",
> aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that
> with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output
> anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):
>
> adverbum - Parchment
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/adverbum.z5>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to
> this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see
> <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>).
> That works properly...
>
> Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment
> with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare
> <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
>
> Sukil
>
>
>





Jacob Kruger
 

Felix, while this is not the official NVDA add-ons page, and, would thus not recommend relying on all of them, I have both the interactive fiction interpreter, and, the winfrotz add-on listed on this page installed, and, along with winfrotz 1.16, it means NVDA reads out the output to me, and, lets me use object navigation to review it as well:

http://jeff.tdrealms.com/NVDA.htm


(sorry if should not have posted that page on this list)


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-08 11:01, Felix G. wrote:

Hi!
Since I'm a huge fan of IF myself, I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good interpreter for ZCode and Glulx games which works well with NVDA in terms of automatically announcing new text and interrupting when I press a key. Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe do have built-in speech but that cannot be interrupted, and when using them without speech NVDA does not announce new content as it is printed even though I have installed an add-on for this. Any suggestions? Maybe just the add-on that needs updating?
Kind regards,
Felix

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> schrieb am Sa., 8. Apr. 2017 um 02:47 Uhr:
Not sure but parchment seems to be quite old now, it works well enough
especially for complex games for me if you don't use a glulx zcode or
tads interpreter offline which I do sometimes do this works really well.




On 7/04/2017 7:50 p.m., Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All
> these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite",
> aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that
> with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output
> anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):
>
> adverbum - Parchment
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/adverbum.z5>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to
> this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see
> <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>).
> That works properly...
>
> Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment
> with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare
> <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
>
> Sukil
>
>
>






Felix G.
 

Thank you, will give it a try.
Kind regards,
Felix

Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> schrieb am Sa., 8. Apr. 2017 um 11:56 Uhr:

Felix, while this is not the official NVDA add-ons page, and, would thus not recommend relying on all of them, I have both the interactive fiction interpreter, and, the winfrotz add-on listed on this page installed, and, along with winfrotz 1.16, it means NVDA reads out the output to me, and, lets me use object navigation to review it as well:

http://jeff.tdrealms.com/NVDA.htm


(sorry if should not have posted that page on this list)


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2017-04-08 11:01, Felix G. wrote:
Hi!
Since I'm a huge fan of IF myself, I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good interpreter for ZCode and Glulx games which works well with NVDA in terms of automatically announcing new text and interrupting when I press a key. Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe do have built-in speech but that cannot be interrupted, and when using them without speech NVDA does not announce new content as it is printed even though I have installed an add-on for this. Any suggestions? Maybe just the add-on that needs updating?
Kind regards,
Felix

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> schrieb am Sa., 8. Apr. 2017 um 02:47 Uhr:
Not sure but parchment seems to be quite old now, it works well enough
especially for complex games for me if you don't use a glulx zcode or
tads interpreter offline which I do sometimes do this works really well.




On 7/04/2017 7:50 p.m., Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All
> these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite",
> aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that
> with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output
> anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):
>
> adverbum - Parchment
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/adverbum.z5>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to
> this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see
> <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>).
> That works properly...
>
> Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment
> with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare
> <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
>
> Sukil
>
>
>






Sukil Etxenike <sukiletxe@...>
 

Hi,

In the latest versions of both Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe, speech can be stopped by pressing ctrl + Break.



El 08/04/2017 a las 11:01, Felix G. escribió:
Hi!
Since I'm a huge fan of IF myself, I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good interpreter for ZCode and Glulx games which works well with NVDA in terms of automatically announcing new text and interrupting when I press a key. Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe do have built-in speech but that cannot be interrupted, and when using them without speech NVDA does not announce new content as it is printed even though I have installed an add-on for this. Any suggestions? Maybe just the add-on that needs updating?
Kind regards,
Felix

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> schrieb am Sa., 8. Apr. 2017 um 02:47 Uhr:
Not sure but parchment seems to be quite old now, it works well enough
especially for complex games for me if you don't use a glulx zcode or
tads interpreter offline which I do sometimes do this works really well.




On 7/04/2017 7:50 p.m., Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All
> these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite",
> aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that
> with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output
> anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):
>
> adverbum - Parchment
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/adverbum.z5>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to
> this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see
> <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>).
> That works properly...
>
> Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment
> with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare
> <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
>
> Sukil
>
>
>






Felix G.
 

That's great news. Thank you!
Kind regards,
Felix Grützmacher
Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io <sukiletxe=yahoo.es@groups.io> schrieb am Sa. 8. Apr. 2017 um 17:34:

Hi,

In the latest versions of both Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe, speech can be stopped by pressing ctrl + Break.



El 08/04/2017 a las 11:01, Felix G. escribió:
Hi!
Since I'm a huge fan of IF myself, I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good interpreter for ZCode and Glulx games which works well with NVDA in terms of automatically announcing new text and interrupting when I press a key. Windows Frotz and Windows Glulxe do have built-in speech but that cannot be interrupted, and when using them without speech NVDA does not announce new content as it is printed even though I have installed an add-on for this. Any suggestions? Maybe just the add-on that needs updating?
Kind regards,
Felix

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> schrieb am Sa., 8. Apr. 2017 um 02:47 Uhr:
Not sure but parchment seems to be quite old now, it works well enough
especially for complex games for me if you don't use a glulx zcode or
tads interpreter offline which I do sometimes do this works really well.




On 7/04/2017 7:50 p.m., Sukil Etxenike via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lately I've been testing online interactive fiction interpreters. All
> these implement aria (precisely,aria-live="polite",
> aria-atomic="false", aria-relevant="additions"). The problem is that
> with some specific games (like Ad Verbum) NVDA fails to output
> anything automatically. Link to test this (with Parchment):
>
> adverbum - Parchment
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/zcode/adverbum.z5>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone can clarify why this happens? Note that this is not specific to
> this game, but this only happens in Parchment (see
> <http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/quixe/quixe/play-remote.html?story=stories/Advent.ulx.js>).
> That works properly...
>
> Even more weirdness: Andrew Plotkin uses an older version of Parchment
> with no ARIA, and it works surprisingly well (compare
> <http://eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/> and
> <http://iplayif.com/?story=http://eblong.com/zarf/ftp/Tangle.z5>.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
>
> Sukil
>
>
>