Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA


Fantasy Sports <fantasylife@...>
 

Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Nothing to optimize. NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just fine. If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you don't see them. Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle. Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.

On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.





lali <l2belteki@...>
 

Yes, I use, Alteraeon.


--
mail: l2belteki@... skype: b.laller1986


Fantasy Sports <fantasylife@...>
 

A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.

Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
as it first appears on the screen?

Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
with the NVDA keyboard commands?

-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Nothing to optimize. NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
fine. If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
don't see them. Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.




On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.









Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.

NVDA always reads text in real time. I don't know exactly what you're experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary. Now, if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see where you might be having trouble. Me personally, I tend to connect to my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long. If I'm likely to be logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients. I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s, and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I tend to avoid them. Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients, since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the minority.

On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.

Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
as it first appears on the screen?

Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
with the NVDA keyboard commands?








-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Nothing to optimize. NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
fine. If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
don't see them. Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.




On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.








Fantasy Sports <fantasylife@...>
 

I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
based client.

You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
the window above.

NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.

If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
probably very different, as you say.

Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
or other Windows clients?

-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.

NVDA always reads text in real time. I don't know exactly what you're
experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary. Now,
if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
where you might be having trouble. Me personally, I tend to connect to
my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long. If I'm likely to be
logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
tend to avoid them. Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
minority.


On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.

Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
as it first appears on the screen?

Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
with the NVDA keyboard commands?








-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Nothing to optimize. NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
fine. If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
don't see them. Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.




On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.











Tyler Spivey
 

You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
This page should get you going.
https://allinaccess.com/mc/

Download MushReader from there.

On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
based client.

You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
the window above.

NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.

If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
probably very different, as you say.

Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
or other Windows clients?



-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.

NVDA always reads text in real time. I don't know exactly what you're
experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary. Now,
if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
where you might be having trouble. Me personally, I tend to connect to
my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long. If I'm likely to be
logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
tend to avoid them. Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
minority.


On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.

Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
as it first appears on the screen?

Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
with the NVDA keyboard commands?








-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Nothing to optimize. NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
fine. If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
don't see them. Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.




On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.











Fantasy Sports <fantasylife@...>
 

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
This page should get you going.
https://allinaccess.com/mc/

Download MushReader from there.
On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
based client.

You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
the window above.

NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.

If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
probably very different, as you say.

Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
or other Windows clients?



-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.

NVDA always reads text in real time. I don't know exactly what you're
experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary. Now,
if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
where you might be having trouble. Me personally, I tend to connect to
my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long. If I'm likely to be
logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
tend to avoid them. Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
minority.


On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.

Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
as it first appears on the screen?

Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
with the NVDA keyboard commands?








-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Nothing to optimize. NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
fine. If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
don't see them. Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.




On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)

If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
to read the text as it scrolls in the game?

Thank you for any advice.














Gene
 

I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Static or not, Chrome reads pages for me when they come up, thunderbird reads new messages as they come up, winrar reads filenames when I arrow to them, the dos prompt reads automatically, the ssh client I use reads automatically as well.  The only thing that doesn't read automatically (and I suppose I could fix that if it bothered me enough) is notepad when I open txt files using notepad.  Otherwise, I never use the screen review mode unless I need to see something that already went past, and in most cases, I only use that if I need to leave the speech cursor somewhere other than the active cursor location, for times when I need to type something and don't know how to spell it without looking.  90 percent of the time, I leave NVDA in object review mode, and NVDA speaks things automatically, and if I miss something, I simply move around the screen using the cursor navigation keys to get to things without ever leaving object review mode. 


On 5/11/2017 6:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Gene
 

The only reason automatic reading of the sort you describe occurs is because in some instances, NVDA automatically uses read to end when something opens.  You are using read to end in all of the examples you discuss.  But are you saying you let web pages read, link after link and whatever else is at the top of pages before articles begin?  It's hard to believe.  If not when you move to what you want to read, how do you read?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Static or not, Chrome reads pages for me when they come up, thunderbird reads new messages as they come up, winrar reads filenames when I arrow to them, the dos prompt reads automatically, the ssh client I use reads automatically as well.  The only thing that doesn't read automatically (and I suppose I could fix that if it bothered me enough) is notepad when I open txt files using notepad.  Otherwise, I never use the screen review mode unless I need to see something that already went past, and in most cases, I only use that if I need to leave the speech cursor somewhere other than the active cursor location, for times when I need to type something and don't know how to spell it without looking.  90 percent of the time, I leave NVDA in object review mode, and NVDA speaks things automatically, and if I miss something, I simply move around the screen using the cursor navigation keys to get to things without ever leaving object review mode. 


On 5/11/2017 6:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Why is it hard to believe that I find it more efficient to read the entire web page than to waste time hunting for information that is on the screen somewhere I don't know where it is on the page? Yes, most of the time, I let it read from the top, until it gets to the content I want.  It's faster (I run the speech as fast as it will go), and all I need to do when I get hwere I want to be is to press the shift or control key depending on whether I want to resume again or not. 

On the other hand, I spend a lot of time reading, so allowing the page to autoload and read from top to bottom is exactly what's wanted, since that way I don't need to do anything to hear the text of the book.  It's the most efficient way of doing things (for me).  It only takes a few seconds to get past the header information (in most cases) and the other content I want is usually near the top of the page, though admittedly, if it's a site like paypal or shopgoodwill, I don't bother with the read to end, because there's no need for it, I just press pagedown the required number of times to get near the main content (or the area I want) and then use the arrows from there to get where I want to go.  I rarely have the need to navigate by headers or tables, or anything else, because after I've been on a site a few times, I'm already familiar with where things are, and if it's close to the top, it's faster to just let it read.


On 5/11/2017 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:
The only reason automatic reading of the sort you describe occurs is because in some instances, NVDA automatically uses read to end when something opens.  You are using read to end in all of the examples you discuss.  But are you saying you let web pages read, link after link and whatever else is at the top of pages before articles begin?  It's hard to believe.  If not when you move to what you want to read, how do you read?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Static or not, Chrome reads pages for me when they come up, thunderbird reads new messages as they come up, winrar reads filenames when I arrow to them, the dos prompt reads automatically, the ssh client I use reads automatically as well.  The only thing that doesn't read automatically (and I suppose I could fix that if it bothered me enough) is notepad when I open txt files using notepad.  Otherwise, I never use the screen review mode unless I need to see something that already went past, and in most cases, I only use that if I need to leave the speech cursor somewhere other than the active cursor location, for times when I need to type something and don't know how to spell it without looking.  90 percent of the time, I leave NVDA in object review mode, and NVDA speaks things automatically, and if I miss something, I simply move around the screen using the cursor navigation keys to get to things without ever leaving object review mode. 


On 5/11/2017 6:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Gene
 

It's hard to believe because it's very inefficient.  You may hear twenty or thirty links and controls before the text actually begins.  With all the ways of using quick navigation. move by headings, skip blocks of links, using the search command, it is extremely inefficient to just let pages read. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Why is it hard to believe that I find it more efficient to read the entire web page than to waste time hunting for information that is on the screen somewhere I don't know where it is on the page? Yes, most of the time, I let it read from the top, until it gets to the content I want.  It's faster (I run the speech as fast as it will go), and all I need to do when I get hwere I want to be is to press the shift or control key depending on whether I want to resume again or not. 

On the other hand, I spend a lot of time reading, so allowing the page to autoload and read from top to bottom is exactly what's wanted, since that way I don't need to do anything to hear the text of the book.  It's the most efficient way of doing things (for me).  It only takes a few seconds to get past the header information (in most cases) and the other content I want is usually near the top of the page, though admittedly, if it's a site like paypal or shopgoodwill, I don't bother with the read to end, because there's no need for it, I just press pagedown the required number of times to get near the main content (or the area I want) and then use the arrows from there to get where I want to go.  I rarely have the need to navigate by headers or tables, or anything else, because after I've been on a site a few times, I'm already familiar with where things are, and if it's close to the top, it's faster to just let it read.


On 5/11/2017 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:
The only reason automatic reading of the sort you describe occurs is because in some instances, NVDA automatically uses read to end when something opens.  You are using read to end in all of the examples you discuss.  But are you saying you let web pages read, link after link and whatever else is at the top of pages before articles begin?  It's hard to believe.  If not when you move to what you want to read, how do you read?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Static or not, Chrome reads pages for me when they come up, thunderbird reads new messages as they come up, winrar reads filenames when I arrow to them, the dos prompt reads automatically, the ssh client I use reads automatically as well.  The only thing that doesn't read automatically (and I suppose I could fix that if it bothered me enough) is notepad when I open txt files using notepad.  Otherwise, I never use the screen review mode unless I need to see something that already went past, and in most cases, I only use that if I need to leave the speech cursor somewhere other than the active cursor location, for times when I need to type something and don't know how to spell it without looking.  90 percent of the time, I leave NVDA in object review mode, and NVDA speaks things automatically, and if I miss something, I simply move around the screen using the cursor navigation keys to get to things without ever leaving object review mode. 


On 5/11/2017 6:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Fantasy Sports <fantasylife@...>
 

So Travis is using "object review mode", and Gene, you are using a different mode?

I'm still learning what the different modes do.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: May 11, 2017 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

It's hard to believe because it's very inefficient.  You may hear twenty or thirty links and controls before the text actually begins.  With all the ways of using quick navigation. move by headings, skip blocks of links, using the search command, it is extremely inefficient to just let pages read. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Why is it hard to believe that I find it more efficient to read the entire web page than to waste time hunting for information that is on the screen somewhere I don't know where it is on the page? Yes, most of the time, I let it read from the top, until it gets to the content I want.  It's faster (I run the speech as fast as it will go), and all I need to do when I get hwere I want to be is to press the shift or control key depending on whether I want to resume again or not. 

On the other hand, I spend a lot of time reading, so allowing the page to autoload and read from top to bottom is exactly what's wanted, since that way I don't need to do anything to hear the text of the book.  It's the most efficient way of doing things (for me).  It only takes a few seconds to get past the header information (in most cases) and the other content I want is usually near the top of the page, though admittedly, if it's a site like paypal or shopgoodwill, I don't bother with the read to end, because there's no need for it, I just press pagedown the required number of times to get near the main content (or the area I want) and then use the arrows from there to get where I want to go.  I rarely have the need to navigate by headers or tables, or anything else, because after I've been on a site a few times, I'm already familiar with where things are, and if it's close to the top, it's faster to just let it read.


On 5/11/2017 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:
The only reason automatic reading of the sort you describe occurs is because in some instances, NVDA automatically uses read to end when something opens.  You are using read to end in all of the examples you discuss.  But are you saying you let web pages read, link after link and whatever else is at the top of pages before articles begin?  It's hard to believe.  If not when you move to what you want to read, how do you read?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Static or not, Chrome reads pages for me when they come up, thunderbird reads new messages as they come up, winrar reads filenames when I arrow to them, the dos prompt reads automatically, the ssh client I use reads automatically as well.  The only thing that doesn't read automatically (and I suppose I could fix that if it bothered me enough) is notepad when I open txt files using notepad.  Otherwise, I never use the screen review mode unless I need to see something that already went past, and in most cases, I only use that if I need to leave the speech cursor somewhere other than the active cursor location, for times when I need to type something and don't know how to spell it without looking.  90 percent of the time, I leave NVDA in object review mode, and NVDA speaks things automatically, and if I miss something, I simply move around the screen using the cursor navigation keys to get to things without ever leaving object review mode. 


On 5/11/2017 6:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com


Gene
 

This isn't a review command.  It's read to end NVDA key down arrow, which you already use.  When You use a browser and open a web page, NVDA automatically starts reading the page, using read to end.  Travis is just letting the page read from the beginning until the content he wants to hear comes up. 
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

So Travis is using "object review mode", and Gene, you are using a different mode?

I'm still learning what the different modes do.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: May 11, 2017 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

It's hard to believe because it's very inefficient.  You may hear twenty or thirty links and controls before the text actually begins.  With all the ways of using quick navigation. move by headings, skip blocks of links, using the search command, it is extremely inefficient to just let pages read. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Why is it hard to believe that I find it more efficient to read the entire web page than to waste time hunting for information that is on the screen somewhere I don't know where it is on the page? Yes, most of the time, I let it read from the top, until it gets to the content I want.  It's faster (I run the speech as fast as it will go), and all I need to do when I get hwere I want to be is to press the shift or control key depending on whether I want to resume again or not. 

On the other hand, I spend a lot of time reading, so allowing the page to autoload and read from top to bottom is exactly what's wanted, since that way I don't need to do anything to hear the text of the book.  It's the most efficient way of doing things (for me).  It only takes a few seconds to get past the header information (in most cases) and the other content I want is usually near the top of the page, though admittedly, if it's a site like paypal or shopgoodwill, I don't bother with the read to end, because there's no need for it, I just press pagedown the required number of times to get near the main content (or the area I want) and then use the arrows from there to get where I want to go.  I rarely have the need to navigate by headers or tables, or anything else, because after I've been on a site a few times, I'm already familiar with where things are, and if it's close to the top, it's faster to just let it read.


On 5/11/2017 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:
The only reason automatic reading of the sort you describe occurs is because in some instances, NVDA automatically uses read to end when something opens.  You are using read to end in all of the examples you discuss.  But are you saying you let web pages read, link after link and whatever else is at the top of pages before articles begin?  It's hard to believe.  If not when you move to what you want to read, how do you read?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Static or not, Chrome reads pages for me when they come up, thunderbird reads new messages as they come up, winrar reads filenames when I arrow to them, the dos prompt reads automatically, the ssh client I use reads automatically as well.  The only thing that doesn't read automatically (and I suppose I could fix that if it bothered me enough) is notepad when I open txt files using notepad.  Otherwise, I never use the screen review mode unless I need to see something that already went past, and in most cases, I only use that if I need to leave the speech cursor somewhere other than the active cursor location, for times when I need to type something and don't know how to spell it without looking.  90 percent of the time, I leave NVDA in object review mode, and NVDA speaks things automatically, and if I miss something, I simply move around the screen using the cursor navigation keys to get to things without ever leaving object review mode. 


On 5/11/2017 6:26 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what would be involved in doing this.  I have long maintained that NVDA should have such a feature.  At this point, there are only specific interfaces where NVDA is set to do this, such as in the DOS prompt and evidently, in some mud programs and certain other contexts.  But the user can't control this as a general setting.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA

Thanks.

Most things such as web pages, emails, Word
documents, are static, in that the text just
appears once and you NVDA navigate to it using
the keyboard.

Theoretically, should NVDA have a mode where
it just reads everything on the page that
newly appears?

I suppose this only would apply to text games,
where text is dynamically appearing.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Tyler Spivey <tspivey@...>
>Sent: May 11, 2017 1:13 AM
>To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>
>You need a plugin which supports NVDA.
>This page should get you going.
>https://allinaccess.com/mc/
>
>Download MushReader from there.
>On 5/10/2017 11:08 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>> I am using the MUSH Client, which is of course a windows
>> based client.
>>
>> You type commands in the bottom of the screen where your
>> cursor is, and the text from the MUD itself appears in
>> the window above.
>>
>> NVDA does not read anything in that MUD window as it appears,
>> and I'm not sure how you would get it to do so.
>>
>> If you're using a LINUX client, your experience is
>> probably very different, as you say.
>>
>> Perhaps you could give me advice on using NVDA with Mush
>> or other Windows clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>> Sent: May 10, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>
>>> I'm a little puzzled by what you're saying here.
>>>
>>> NVDA always reads text in real time.  I don't know exactly what you're
>>> experiencing, (perhaps it's the client you're using), but I don't have
>>> to touch the nvda review mode or move the cursor around at all (unless I
>>> want to see something that already printed), everything reads just fine
>>> when it comes from the mud, no configuration of NVDA is necessary.  Now,
>>> if you're using a mud client that isn't speech friendly, I could see
>>> where you might be having trouble.  Me personally, I tend to connect to
>>> my linux box first, then use either muddle or tintin depending on what
>>> I'm connecting to, and how long I plan to be connected, since muddle is
>>> my favorite client, but it's limited on capabilities, I tend to use it
>>> only when I don'[t plan to be logged in very long.  If I'm likely to be
>>> logged in for any length of time, I'll use tintin, because it has better
>>> capabilities, though I've not actually made it as full featured as I'd
>>> like, there's still a lot of things it misses that muddle catches, but
>>> it does have a gag feature which muddle doesn't, and I've not added one
>>> yet, so I tend to use those two, and don't bother with windows clients.
>>> I've tried a few, but honestly, I've been mudding since the early 90s,
>>> and I have yet to find a windows client that works the way I want, so I
>>> tend to avoid them.  Sure, some of them are nice, especially mushZ, but
>>> when I'm playing a mud, I'm not really all that interested in full audio
>>> immersion, so I tend to stick to my command line linux-based clients and
>>> just go on and do my thing and stay out of all discussion on clients,
>>> since I'm probably the only one that ever uses muddle, and although
>>> there are folks using tintin, I don't think the total is more than a
>>> percentage point or two of all total users, so I'm definitely in the
>>> minority.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/2017 9:33 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>> A lot of quick reactions are required sometimes in a MUD.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to make it read the text in real time
>>>> as it first appears on the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Or are you manually navigating to each paragraph yourself
>>>> with the NVDA keyboard commands?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
>>>>> Sent: May 9, 2017 10:59 PM
>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Multi-User-Dungeons and NVDA
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing to optimize.  NVDA reads the text coming across the screen just
>>>>> fine.  If you don't want to see everything, then use a client that has
>>>>> gag capabilities, then you can repress certain text strings, so you
>>>>> don't see them.  Most muds also have various settings you can use to cut
>>>>> down on the amount of spam you receive, especially during battle.
>>>>> Nothing special needed to mud using NVDA, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/9/2017 10:42 PM, Fantasy Sports wrote:
>>>>>> Does anyone here play text adventures such as MUD's? (Multi User Dungeons)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, is there a way to optimize NVDA with a MUD Client
>>>>>> to read the text as it scrolls in the game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for any advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Virus-free. www.avast.com