fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?


erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Pardon folks,

Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button? Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the offing at NV Access? Have I missed similar from any company intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access? Have there been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if they exist.

I haven't read Bavia. Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or directing interest there-in? I suspect not. Well, Chris Hofsteader has some things on the ball and others not. Despite what he has to say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right. I ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end user?

Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing that could happen? No evidence have I observed to justify any such.

I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years before the acquisitions. Development slowed, then stopped. Spin off software from new developers emerged to keep the company generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced. Dan and Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready to move on at the time of the acquisitions. As far as I know, nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group. Those people will milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now is on par with what it was 5 and 10 years ago? In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back. Both major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes. Accessibility features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built into personal computers. Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money. Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over all. The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools are getting better.

To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to acquire it just to put it out of business. At least MS with full control over development and system intergration would have the ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream were nowhere near enough to pay for development.

The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal computer? Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months. The only thing I missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a little box for $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month. I need a bigger, better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or inaccessible app. The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in the next 1-3 years. How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either. Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.

I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without information contributes meaningfully to the community. Fire away if you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or uncertainty that I can see.

Best,

Erik

On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dear all,
‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities in my new blog post.
‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers go?’
Post URL: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/
Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750





erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering. I wish I had been available for nvda con. I had surgery at the time and missed the festivities.

Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.

I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why screen reader monopolies are bad. Apple has two very successful ones. Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid and now have no viable product.

How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of the AT software market? I suspect most of us would feel better about a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an unchallenged monopoly?

I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly driven by NVDA in the windows space. I don't really see that happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.

Best,

Erik

On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote:

Pardon folks,

Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button? Have I
missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog posts, or
interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the offing at NV
Access? Have I missed similar from any company intimating they wish to buy
up interest in NV Access? Have there been development changes in the nvda
sycle that suggest new directions in control of the product? Please direct
me to those if they exist.

I haven't read Bavia. Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
directing interest there-in? I suspect not. Well, Chris Hofsteader has
some things on the ball and others not. Despite what he has to say about
VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite his experience in
the industry, his facts aren't always right. I ask you where Bavia is
coming from and whether his experience suggests he may have knowledge or
perspective beyond that of an end user?

Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing that
could happen? No evidence have I observed to justify any such.

I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's impending
discontinuance had been available for any to see for years before the
acquisitions. Development slowed, then stopped. Spin off software from
new developers emerged to keep the company generating reviniew. Old hands
left not to be replaced. Dan and Doug are retired, presumably happily, and
never was there ever a thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw
micro were ready to move on at the time of the acquisitions. As far as I
know, nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access. Correct me
if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have a much
bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group. Those people will milk access
for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat good, but does any
one here believe the money in the AT market now is on par with what it was
5 and 10 years ago? In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile device
sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer sales for the
first time, while PC sales themselves have been steadily droping since 2011
and have not been bouncing back. Both major opperating systems in the pc
space have gone from completely paid to free or alternatively priced in an
attempt to revive interest in the personal computer, but corporations and
consumers are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes. Accessibility
features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built into
personal computers. Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright than pc's,
and better communication regulations are forcing carriers to share back
more of their prophets with users in the form of more user friendly
contracts, and more service delivery for less money. Canada isn't really
onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the western world seems to be doing
more to provide value for money over all. The two biggest mobile players,
IOS and android, have professional quality accessibility suites built in
and those tools are getting better.

To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a core
operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to acquire it
just to put it out of business. At least MS with full control over
development and system intergration would have the ability to make money
from the product, even if the income stream were nowhere near enough to pay
for development.

The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in a year
or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal computer?
Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months. The only thing I missed
about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a little box for
$150 to hook up to a drive tower last month. I need a bigger, better
phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I want on my
phone is when there's a badly designed website or inaccessible app. The
fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and have access to modern
computing will mean that I will never want a computer for day to day use
again, and you'll be there yourself in the next 1-3 years. How windows and
NVDA fit in modern computing remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I
don't see it disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever
either. Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that doesn't mean
I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.

I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any windows
systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will last forever, nor
do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor do I believe the people
working on NVDA will pull the rug out from under us with no warning, nor do
I believe speculation without information contributes meaningfully to the
community. Fire away if you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no
reason for panick or uncertainty that I can see.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA open
source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay for Jaws
plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dear all,
‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the blindness
community in recent times. Find out the answer to this inquiry with all the
cogent reasoning, justification and arguments you may desire as I explore
all the possibilities and probabilities in my new blog post.
‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form – will
the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS screen reader,
after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window Eyes screen reader,
venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV Access and its free and open
source NVDA screen reader, and thereby establish an absolute monopoly as
far as Windows screen readers go?’
Post URL:
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/
Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750








 

If people would read the post, it makes it clear that NV access can't be bought off. LOL. so, babble babble babble, I guess.


 

Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.

Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in them and no extra features.

On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..

While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a huge boost.

It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since its only supporting ie and a few other things.

My issue is having everyone jawsified.

Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things can't stay stale like this.

What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are more modules for it.

And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.

On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering. I wish I had been available for nvda con. I had surgery at the time and missed the festivities.

Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.

I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why screen reader monopolies are bad. Apple has two very successful ones. Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid and now have no viable product.

How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of the AT software market? I suspect most of us would feel better about a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an unchallenged monopoly?

I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly driven by NVDA in the windows space. I don't really see that happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote:

Pardon folks,

Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button? Have I
missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog posts, or
interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the offing at NV
Access? Have I missed similar from any company intimating they wish to buy
up interest in NV Access? Have there been development changes in the nvda
sycle that suggest new directions in control of the product? Please direct
me to those if they exist.

I haven't read Bavia. Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
directing interest there-in? I suspect not. Well, Chris Hofsteader has
some things on the ball and others not. Despite what he has to say about
VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite his experience in
the industry, his facts aren't always right. I ask you where Bavia is
coming from and whether his experience suggests he may have knowledge or
perspective beyond that of an end user?

Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing that
could happen? No evidence have I observed to justify any such.

I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's impending
discontinuance had been available for any to see for years before the
acquisitions. Development slowed, then stopped. Spin off software from
new developers emerged to keep the company generating reviniew. Old hands
left not to be replaced. Dan and Doug are retired, presumably happily, and
never was there ever a thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw
micro were ready to move on at the time of the acquisitions. As far as I
know, nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access. Correct me
if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have a much
bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group. Those people will milk access
for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat good, but does any
one here believe the money in the AT market now is on par with what it was
5 and 10 years ago? In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile device
sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer sales for the
first time, while PC sales themselves have been steadily droping since 2011
and have not been bouncing back. Both major opperating systems in the pc
space have gone from completely paid to free or alternatively priced in an
attempt to revive interest in the personal computer, but corporations and
consumers are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes. Accessibility
features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built into
personal computers. Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright than pc's,
and better communication regulations are forcing carriers to share back
more of their prophets with users in the form of more user friendly
contracts, and more service delivery for less money. Canada isn't really
onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the western world seems to be doing
more to provide value for money over all. The two biggest mobile players,
IOS and android, have professional quality accessibility suites built in
and those tools are getting better.

To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a core
operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to acquire it
just to put it out of business. At least MS with full control over
development and system intergration would have the ability to make money
from the product, even if the income stream were nowhere near enough to pay
for development.

The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in a year
or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal computer?
Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months. The only thing I missed
about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a little box for
$150 to hook up to a drive tower last month. I need a bigger, better
phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I want on my
phone is when there's a badly designed website or inaccessible app. The
fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and have access to modern
computing will mean that I will never want a computer for day to day use
again, and you'll be there yourself in the next 1-3 years. How windows and
NVDA fit in modern computing remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I
don't see it disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever
either. Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that doesn't mean
I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.

I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any windows
systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will last forever, nor
do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor do I believe the people
working on NVDA will pull the rug out from under us with no warning, nor do
I believe speculation without information contributes meaningfully to the
community. Fire away if you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no
reason for panick or uncertainty that I can see.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA open
source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay for Jaws
plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dear all,
‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the blindness
community in recent times. Find out the answer to this inquiry with all the
cogent reasoning, justification and arguments you may desire as I explore
all the possibilities and probabilities in my new blog post.
‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form – will
the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS screen reader,
after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window Eyes screen reader,
venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV Access and its free and open
source NVDA screen reader, and thereby establish an absolute monopoly as
far as Windows screen readers go?’
Post URL:
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/
Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750












Bhavya shah
 

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself
simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or
opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally
expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere
stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO
Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed
explication after I read a related debate on another online forum
where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived
while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral
innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick
from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed,
its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.

Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
them and no extra features.

On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..

While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a huge
boost.

It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since its
only supporting ie and a few other things.

My issue is having everyone jawsified.

Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
can't stay stale like this.

What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
more modules for it.

And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a need
you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.




On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
I wish I had been available for nvda con. I had surgery at the time
and missed the festivities.

Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.

I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why screen
reader monopolies are bad. Apple has two very successful ones.
Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid and
now have no viable product.

How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
the AT software market? I suspect most of us would feel better about
a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the more
established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the new
thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
unchallenged monopoly?

I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader monopolies
on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly driven by
NVDA in the windows space. I don't really see that happening either,
but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers and it's easy to see
the passion users and contributers have for it.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
wrote:

Pardon folks,

Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button? Have I
missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog posts, or
interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the offing at NV
Access? Have I missed similar from any company intimating they wish
to buy
up interest in NV Access? Have there been development changes in the
nvda
sycle that suggest new directions in control of the product? Please
direct
me to those if they exist.

I haven't read Bavia. Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
directing interest there-in? I suspect not. Well, Chris Hofsteader has
some things on the ball and others not. Despite what he has to say
about
VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite his
experience in
the industry, his facts aren't always right. I ask you where Bavia is
coming from and whether his experience suggests he may have knowledge or
perspective beyond that of an end user?

Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing that
could happen? No evidence have I observed to justify any such.

I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's impending
discontinuance had been available for any to see for years before the
acquisitions. Development slowed, then stopped. Spin off software from
new developers emerged to keep the company generating reviniew. Old
hands
left not to be replaced. Dan and Doug are retired, presumably
happily, and
never was there ever a thought in the hofsteader post that insiders
at gw
micro were ready to move on at the time of the acquisitions. As far
as I
know, nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
Correct me
if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have a
much
bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group. Those people will milk access
for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat good, but
does any
one here believe the money in the AT market now is on par with what
it was
5 and 10 years ago? In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile device
sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer sales for the
first time, while PC sales themselves have been steadily droping
since 2011
and have not been bouncing back. Both major opperating systems in
the pc
space have gone from completely paid to free or alternatively priced
in an
attempt to revive interest in the personal computer, but corporations
and
consumers are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
Accessibility
features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built into
personal computers. Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright than
pc's,
and better communication regulations are forcing carriers to share back
more of their prophets with users in the form of more user friendly
contracts, and more service delivery for less money. Canada isn't
really
onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the western world seems to be
doing
more to provide value for money over all. The two biggest mobile
players,
IOS and android, have professional quality accessibility suites built in
and those tools are getting better.

To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a core
operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to acquire it
just to put it out of business. At least MS with full control over
development and system intergration would have the ability to make money
from the product, even if the income stream were nowhere near enough
to pay
for development.

The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in a
year
or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal computer?
Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months. The only thing I
missed
about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a little
box for
$150 to hook up to a drive tower last month. I need a bigger, better
phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I want on my
phone is when there's a badly designed website or inaccessible app. The
fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and have access to modern
computing will mean that I will never want a computer for day to day use
again, and you'll be there yourself in the next 1-3 years. How
windows and
NVDA fit in modern computing remains to be seen as far as I'm
concerned. I
don't see it disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever
either. Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that doesn't
mean
I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.

I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
windows
systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will last
forever, nor
do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor do I believe the
people
working on NVDA will pull the rug out from under us with no warning,
nor do
I believe speculation without information contributes meaningfully to
the
community. Fire away if you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no
reason for panick or uncertainty that I can see.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
<knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA open
source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay for Jaws
plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dear all,
‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
blindness
community in recent times. Find out the answer to this inquiry with
all the
cogent reasoning, justification and arguments you may desire as I
explore
all the possibilities and probabilities in my new blog post.
‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form –
will
the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS screen
reader,
after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window Eyes screen
reader,
venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV Access and its free and
open
source NVDA screen reader, and thereby establish an absolute
monopoly as
far as Windows screen readers go?’
Post URL:
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/


Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
7506221750















--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Dennis L
 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.

Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
them and no extra features.

On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..

While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
huge boost.

It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
its only supporting ie and a few other things.

My issue is having everyone jawsified.

Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
can't stay stale like this.

What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
more modules for it.

And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.




On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
I wish I had been available for nvda con. I had surgery at the time
and missed the festivities.

Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.

I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
screen reader monopolies are bad. Apple has two very successful ones.
Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
and now have no viable product.

How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
the AT software market? I suspect most of us would feel better about
a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
unchallenged monopoly?

I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
driven by NVDA in the windows space. I don't really see that
happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
wrote:

Pardon folks,

Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
offing at NV Access? Have I missed similar from any company
intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access? Have there
been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
they exist.

I haven't read Bavia. Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
directing interest there-in? I suspect not. Well, Chris Hofsteader
has some things on the ball and others not. Despite what he has to
say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right. I
ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
user?

Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
that could happen? No evidence have I observed to justify any such.

I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
before the acquisitions. Development slowed, then stopped. Spin
off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced. Dan and
Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
to move on at the time of the acquisitions. As far as I know,
nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
Correct me
if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group. Those people will
milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
is on par with what it was
5 and 10 years ago? In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back. Both
major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
Accessibility
features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
into personal computers. Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
all. The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
are getting better.

To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
acquire it just to put it out of business. At least MS with full
control over development and system intergration would have the
ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
were nowhere near enough to pay for development.

The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
computer?
Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months. The only thing I
missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
little box for
$150 to hook up to a drive tower last month. I need a bigger,
better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
inaccessible app. The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
the next 1-3 years. How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.

I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
information contributes meaningfully to the community. Fire away if
you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
uncertainty that I can see.

Best,

Erik


On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
<knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Dear all,
‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
in my new blog post.
‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
– will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
go?’
Post URL:
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
access/


Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
7506221750
















--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Gene
 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750







Dennis L
 

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Dennis L
 

I think what people need to do is promote Joseph Lee’s project lense and spread the word about NVDA.  Promote the strengths and show people where it can be used and if there is something you need there are people that might write add-ons they might charge but your program or application could be made to work with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Gene
 

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 
 
I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.
I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 
 
Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Dennis L
 

No I didn’t change the subject this is what it was.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 

 

I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.

I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 

 

Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750





Gene
 

One way to promote NVDA is to reassure people that it is worth taking time to learn.  Someone who is worried about the future of NVDA will be less likely to be motivated to do so.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

I think what people need to do is promote Joseph Lee’s project lense and spread the word about NVDA.  Promote the strengths and show people where it can be used and if there is something you need there are people that might write add-ons they might charge but your program or application could be made to work with NVDA.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Gene
 

Then I hope whoever did will not do so in future except when the subject has changed to the point where the subject line no longer applies.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

No I didn’t change the subject this is what it was.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 

 

I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.

I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 

 

Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750





Kwork
 


Gene, it was erik burggraaf who changed the subject line and originally added the "fear mongering?" before the "Re" in the subject line.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 
 
I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.
I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 
 
Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






Gene
 

(I hope enough people see my message that they don't change subject lines unnecessarily.  A lot of people never change them but some people on lists I'm on change them too often.
 
Gene

------ Original Message -----
From: Kwork
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Gene, it was erik burggraaf who changed the subject line and originally added the "fear mongering?" before the "Re" in the subject line.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Such events cause rumor and speculation to spread throughout the blind computer using community.  You may not be susceptible to such rumors but a lot of people give serious attention to such rumors and speculation. 
 
I am now speaking as a moderator.  My previous comments were as a member, not a moderator.
I haven't followed the subject line carefully for this thread.  Did you change it and add the phrase fear mongering?  If you want to characterize it, please don't change the subject line to do so.  Characterize it in the message body.  Subject lines should not be changed unless a subject departs from the original to the extent that it has no meaningful relation to the original subject.  This is still a discussion of the original subject.  If you change subject lines, it creates a new branch in the archives.  It also causes all those who read mail by conversation to see an entirely new conversation where none exists. 
 
Now speaking as a member again, fear mongering is not an accurate characterization of the message. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

My point is that is was so unlikely to happen people shouldn’t be worried about it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

If you had been worried about the future of NVDA, you might not have considered it pointless.  I thought the talk of VFO possibly aquiring NVDA was so unlikely it wasn't worth worrying about but others were seriously maintaining that it might happen. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:44 AM

Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

 

The blog post was pointless in my opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: fear mongering? Re: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?

Hi Eric,
No, I have no role at NV Access in that sense, but consider myself simply an educated NVDA user. I have striven to not be subjective or opininiated in the blog post, and any views I may have personally expressed are also backed with facts. All in all, I have nowhere stated in my piece anything but publicly verifiable facts. The 'VFO Acquires NV Access' situation was one that I thought needed explication after I read a related debate on another online forum where people actually believed that NVDA was purchasable.
No worries if you missed attending NVDACon International 2017 live.
All sessions have been recorded, and some have already been archived while a few others are being actively edited for public availability.
Check https://www.nvdacon.org/past-conferences for the same.
Competition always spurs bilateral, trilateral and multilateral innovation, and innovation is all that matters to the end-user.
Consumers are always better off with choices and alternatives to pick from. Therefore, a monopoly is almost always something worth avoiding.
Thanks.
P.S. In case anyone has missed the original article being discussed, its URL is https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-access/

On 5/30/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> Well I don't want nvda to be jawasified to be honest.
>
> Unless ofcause it meant that jaws for home users was free and fs were
> not so stupid about licences, ie pro for running on oses with pro in
> them and no extra features.
>
> On the other hand, if microsoft simply intigrated narator and nvda
> together and we could continue having nvda as a major part of windows
> and could continue to update it and continue the opensource model like
> chrome and chromium, etc does then I'd nave no issue with it..
>
> While narator has a lot of issues meaning its still quite bad in some
> situations there is no doubt about it, it does have a few more tricks
> being intergrated into windows like that and we don't it would be a
> huge boost.
>
> It does seem the next reader to probably go is the dolphin one since
> its only supporting ie and a few other things.
>
> My issue is having everyone jawsified.
>
> Jaws hasn't inovated to much either, true its the biggest but things
> can't stay stale like this.
>
> What I like about nvda is even when its core doesn't move, there are
> more modules for it.
>
> And the users also can develop for it so if there is a problem or a
> need you ask and at some point soon someone will do it.
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2017 6:11 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
>> Just to follow up, I read the blog post, and it's not fearmongering.
>> I wish I had been available for nvda con.  I had surgery at the time
>> and missed the festivities.
>>
>> Based on the transcript provided in the blog post, my dream of NVDA
>> becoming a core windows component is just that and can never happen.
>>
>> I still don't understand, and the article fails to explain, why
>> screen reader monopolies are bad.  Apple has two very successful ones.
>> Android doesn't preclude any one from developing a screen reader, but
>> google's product is good enough now that it's put numerous screen
>> access and accessibility suite tools out of business, and the biggest
>> losers there unfortunately are the early adopters who largely paid
>> and now have no viable product.
>>
>> How would we feel if NVDA became the recognized gold standard and a
>> combination of NVDA and built in tools for windows forced VFO out of
>> the AT software market?  I suspect most of us would feel better about
>> a market controlled by NVAccess than we would about one controlled by
>> VFO, but if we don't want an AT monopoly, who will compete with NVDA
>> when governments stop funding AT for good? Will we still love the
>> more established NVDA when the next upstart comes along, or will the
>> new thing fade into obscurity leaving NVDA with what amounts to an
>> unchallenged monopoly?
>>
>> I haven't really observed negative effects of screen reader
>> monopolies on other platforms, and personally I'd welcome a monopoly
>> driven by NVDA in the windows space.  I don't really see that
>> happening either, but NVDA continues to meet the needs of consumers
>> and it's easy to see the passion users and contributers have for it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2017 1:41:55 PM "erik burggraaf" <erik@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon folks,
>>>
>>> Could it be that I have an overdeveloped sense of delete button?
>>> Have I missed important announcements from nvda developers, blog
>>> posts, or interviews intimating that ownership changes are in the
>>> offing at NV Access?  Have I missed similar from any company
>>> intimating they wish to buy up interest in NV Access?  Have there
>>> been development changes in the nvda sycle that suggest new
>>> directions in control of the product? Please direct me to those if
>>> they exist.
>>>
>>> I haven't read Bavia.  Does he have a roll in development of NVDA or
>>> directing interest there-in?  I suspect not.  Well, Chris Hofsteader
>>> has some things on the ball and others not.  Despite what he has to
>>> say about VFO's adjenda he clearly has one of his own and despite
>>> his experience in the industry, his facts aren't always right.  I
>>> ask you where Bavia is coming from and whether his experience
>>> suggests he may have knowledge or perspective beyond that of an end
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Why are we talking about an acquisition of NVDA as if it's a thing
>>> that could happen?  No evidence have I observed to justify any such.
>>>
>>> I was a proud window-eyes user for 10 years, and signs of it's
>>> impending discontinuance had been available for any to see for years
>>> before the acquisitions.  Development slowed, then stopped.  Spin
>>> off software from new developers emerged to keep the company
>>> generating reviniew. Old hands left not to be replaced.  Dan and
>>> Doug are retired, presumably happily, and never was there ever a
>>> thought in the hofsteader post that insiders at gw micro were ready
>>> to move on at the time of the acquisitions.  As far as I know,
>>> nothing like this is looming on the horizon of NV access.
>>> Correct me
>>> if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Personally, I think that the end of windows as we know it will have
>>> a much bigger impact on NVDA than the VFO group.  Those people will
>>> milk access for all they can get while the gettin is still somewhat
>>> good, but does any one here believe the money in the AT market now
>>> is on par with what it was
>>> 5 and 10 years ago?  In November of 2016, dollar volume of mobile
>>> device sales globally exceeded dollar volume of personal computer
>>> sales for the first time, while PC sales themselves have been
>>> steadily droping since 2011 and have not been bouncing back.  Both
>>> major opperating systems in the pc space have gone from completely
>>> paid to free or alternatively priced in an attempt to revive
>>> interest in the personal computer, but corporations and consumers
>>> are slowly pulling the bandaids off of their eyes.
>>> Accessibility
>>> features of mobile devices are equal to or better than those built
>>> into personal computers.  Mobile devices can be had cheaper outright
>>> than pc's, and better communication regulations are forcing carriers
>>> to share back more of their prophets with users in the form of more
>>> user friendly contracts, and more service delivery for less money.
>>> Canada isn't really onboard unfortunately, but the rest of the
>>> western world seems to be doing more to provide value for money over
>>> all.  The two biggest mobile players, IOS and android, have
>>> professional quality accessibility suites built in and those tools
>>> are getting better.
>>>
>>> To me, it makes more sense for microsoft to buy NVDA and make it a
>>> core operating system feature in place of narrator than for VFO to
>>> acquire it just to put it out of business.  At least MS with full
>>> control over development and system intergration would have the
>>> ability to make money from the product, even if the income stream
>>> were nowhere near enough to pay for development.
>>>
>>> The real questions are, what will the next itteration of windows in
>>> a year or two look like? and, How much longer will I want a personal
>>> computer?
>>> Myself, I haven't owned a computer in nine months.  The only thing I
>>> missed about a pc was the ability to store large files, and I got a
>>> little box for
>>> $150 to hook up to a drive tower last month.  I need a bigger,
>>> better phone, but the only time I'm prevented from doing anything I
>>> want on my phone is when there's a badly designed website or
>>> inaccessible app.  The fact that I can litterally work anywhere, and
>>> have access to modern computing will mean that I will never want a
>>> computer for day to day use again, and you'll be there yourself in
>>> the next 1-3 years.  How windows and NVDA fit in modern computing
>>> remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned. I don't see it
>>> disappearing over night, but I don't see it lasting forever either.
>>> Yes, I still have an old dos machine, and yes, I do regret not
>>> taking the old apple IIe I was offered back in 2005, but that
>>> doesn't mean I use information the way I did in the 80's and 90's.
>>>
>>> I'm a proud NVDA contributer and I plan to use nothing else on any
>>> windows systems I may need in future, but I don't think NVDA will
>>> last forever, nor do I think it necessarily should last forever, nor
>>> do I believe the people working on NVDA will pull the rug out from
>>> under us with no warning, nor do I believe speculation without
>>> information contributes meaningfully to the community.  Fire away if
>>> you think I'm wrong, but seriously, there's no reason for panick or
>>> uncertainty that I can see.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 29, 2017 12:44:36 PM "Rosemarie Chavarria"
>>> <knitqueen2007@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think V F O will acquire NV access. We need to keep NVDA
>>>> open source as it is now because so many people can't afford to pay
>>>> for Jaws plus the upgrades. I hope and pray that NVDA will stay as it is now.
>>>>
>>>> Rosemarie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bhavya shah
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:03 PM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: [nvda] New Blog Post: Will VFO Acquire NV Access?
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> ‘Will VFO Acquire NVDA?’ has been a highly debated topic in the
>>>> blindness community in recent times. Find out the answer to this
>>>> inquiry with all the cogent reasoning, justification and arguments
>>>> you may desire as I explore all the possibilities and probabilities
>>>> in my new blog post.
>>>> ‘Now, let me restate the question of the hour in a simplified form
>>>> – will the VFO-Group, owners of the Freedom Scientific made JAWS
>>>> screen reader, after phasing out its subsidiary AI Squared’s Window
>>>> Eyes screen reader, venture out (caught the pun?) to buy out NV
>>>> Access and its free and open source NVDA screen reader, and thereby
>>>> establish an absolute monopoly as far as Windows screen readers
>>>> go?’
>>>> Post URL:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/will-vfo-acquire-nv-
>>>> access/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blog Address: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to drop your comments, follow the blog or share the post.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter
>>>> @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91
>>>> 7506221750
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750