Track change in PDF documents


adriani.botez@...
 

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani 


Quentin Christensen
 

I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to have a look before I can give you an answer".

My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you consider converting to another format if needed.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez@...> wrote:
Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Adriani Botez
 

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.

 

Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations (professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is useful to be able to work securely.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents

 

I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to have a look before I can give you an answer".

 

My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you consider converting to another format if needed.

 

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez@...> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Quentin Christensen
 

I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use Word.  In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select "document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...> wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.

 

Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations (professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is useful to be able to work securely.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents

 

I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to have a look before I can give you an answer".

 

My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you consider converting to another format if needed.

 

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes you need to be using that expensive suite of Adobe acrobat programs to actually fiddle with pdf files.
As was said before some pdfs have editable areas but this is meant for froms etc.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents


I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word. In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined. There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to. If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup". So that
is the same as if you accept all changes. You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



*Von:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *Im Auftrag von *Quentin
Christensen
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
*An:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Betreff:* Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx? The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed). Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <
adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani





--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Quentin Christensen
 

Even then I don't think Word actually exports track changes AS track changes does it?  So I think it would still just show you the text with either underline or strikeout, but it would be just like you'd set those text properties in Word.  I don't have the fancy paid version of Adobe reader, so I'd be happy to be corrected, but I'm sure that track changes as a feature is lost when you save to a format other than Word.  Actually I wonder if you save as XPS whether it would keep some more features?  XPS is what Microsoft were hoping would take over from PDF.  I guess if you could open them in Adobe you'd have the same limitations as with PDF.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Yes you need to be using that expensive suite of  Adobe acrobat programs to actually fiddle with pdf files.
As was said before some pdfs have editable areas but this is meant for froms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word.  In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that
is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...>
wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



*Von:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *Im Auftrag von *Quentin
Christensen
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
*An:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Betreff:* Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents




I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <
adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani





--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Sally Kiebdaj
 

Another situation from a previous job of mine where this might be needed is when a clinical trial site receives a new protocol from a company running the trial. We would need to know what was changed so that we can submit that to our institutional review board and make any changes to our visit procedures but we must not have the ability to actually make any new changes.

I usually got these types of documents as word documents with tracked changes converted to PDFs.

At the end of the document was usually a table listing all changes which I used to help find the modified text in the document body but it did often come down to rereading the whole document or whole sections to find the changes.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Even then I don't think Word actually exports track changes AS track changes does it?  So I think it would still just show you the text with either underline or strikeout, but it would be just like you'd set those text properties in Word.  I don't have the fancy paid version of Adobe reader, so I'd be happy to be corrected, but I'm sure that track changes as a feature is lost when you save to a format other than Word.  Actually I wonder if you save as XPS whether it would keep some more features?  XPS is what Microsoft were hoping would take over from PDF.  I guess if you could open them in Adobe you'd have the same limitations as with PDF.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Yes you need to be using that expensive suite of  Adobe acrobat programs to actually fiddle with pdf files.
As was said before some pdfs have editable areas but this is meant for froms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word.  In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that
is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...>
wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



*Von:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *Im Auftrag von *Quentin
Christensen
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
*An:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Betreff:* Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents




I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <
adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani





--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Quentin Christensen
 

If you have two copies of a file, you could use a utility like WinMerge to compare them (There may be better ones, I have used WinMerge previously so thought of it).

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:42 AM, Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Another situation from a previous job of mine where this might be needed is when a clinical trial site receives a new protocol from a company running the trial. We would need to know what was changed so that we can submit that to our institutional review board and make any changes to our visit procedures but we must not have the ability to actually make any new changes.

I usually got these types of documents as word documents with tracked changes converted to PDFs.

At the end of the document was usually a table listing all changes which I used to help find the modified text in the document body but it did often come down to rereading the whole document or whole sections to find the changes.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Even then I don't think Word actually exports track changes AS track changes does it?  So I think it would still just show you the text with either underline or strikeout, but it would be just like you'd set those text properties in Word.  I don't have the fancy paid version of Adobe reader, so I'd be happy to be corrected, but I'm sure that track changes as a feature is lost when you save to a format other than Word.  Actually I wonder if you save as XPS whether it would keep some more features?  XPS is what Microsoft were hoping would take over from PDF.  I guess if you could open them in Adobe you'd have the same limitations as with PDF.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Yes you need to be using that expensive suite of  Adobe acrobat programs to actually fiddle with pdf files.
As was said before some pdfs have editable areas but this is meant for froms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word.  In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that
is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...>
wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



*Von:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *Im Auftrag von *Quentin
Christensen
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
*An:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Betreff:* Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents




I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <
adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani





--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Adriani Botez
 

Hey Sally,

 

ABBYY Finereader 14 comes now aldo with document comparison functions. It works quite well. It can also generate a word document for you with all changes listed in a table.

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Sally Kiebdaj
Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. August 2017 00:43
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents

 

Another situation from a previous job of mine where this might be needed is when a clinical trial site receives a new protocol from a company running the trial. We would need to know what was changed so that we can submit that to our institutional review board and make any changes to our visit procedures but we must not have the ability to actually make any new changes.

I usually got these types of documents as word documents with tracked changes converted to PDFs.

At the end of the document was usually a table listing all changes which I used to help find the modified text in the document body but it did often come down to rereading the whole document or whole sections to find the changes.

 

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Even then I don't think Word actually exports track changes AS track changes does it?  So I think it would still just show you the text with either underline or strikeout, but it would be just like you'd set those text properties in Word.  I don't have the fancy paid version of Adobe reader, so I'd be happy to be corrected, but I'm sure that track changes as a feature is lost when you save to a format other than Word.  Actually I wonder if you save as XPS whether it would keep some more features?  XPS is what Microsoft were hoping would take over from PDF.  I guess if you could open them in Adobe you'd have the same limitations as with PDF.

 

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

Yes you need to be using that expensive suite of  Adobe acrobat programs to actually fiddle with pdf files.
As was said before some pdfs have editable areas but this is meant for froms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents




I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word.  In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that
is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...>
wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani


*Von:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *Im Auftrag von *Quentin
Christensen
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
*An:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Betreff:* Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents





I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <
adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani





--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Sally Kiebdaj
 

That's good to know if I am ever in that situation again.

Thanks for sharing!
Sally


On Aug 8, 2017 2:45 PM, "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...> wrote:

Hey Sally,

 

ABBYY Finereader 14 comes now aldo with document comparison functions. It works quite well. It can also generate a word document for you with all changes listed in a table.

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Sally Kiebdaj
Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. August 2017 00:43
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents

 

Another situation from a previous job of mine where this might be needed is when a clinical trial site receives a new protocol from a company running the trial. We would need to know what was changed so that we can submit that to our institutional review board and make any changes to our visit procedures but we must not have the ability to actually make any new changes.

I usually got these types of documents as word documents with tracked changes converted to PDFs.

At the end of the document was usually a table listing all changes which I used to help find the modified text in the document body but it did often come down to rereading the whole document or whole sections to find the changes.

 

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:

Even then I don't think Word actually exports track changes AS track changes does it?  So I think it would still just show you the text with either underline or strikeout, but it would be just like you'd set those text properties in Word.  I don't have the fancy paid version of Adobe reader, so I'd be happy to be corrected, but I'm sure that track changes as a feature is lost when you save to a format other than Word.  Actually I wonder if you save as XPS whether it would keep some more features?  XPS is what Microsoft were hoping would take over from PDF.  I guess if you could open them in Adobe you'd have the same limitations as with PDF.

 

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Yes you need to be using that expensive suite of  Adobe acrobat programs to actually fiddle with pdf files.
As was said before some pdfs have editable areas but this is meant for froms etc.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents




I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word.  In any case:

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that
is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.

Regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...>
wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani


*Von:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *Im Auftrag von *Quentin
Christensen
*Gesendet:* Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
*An:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Betreff:* Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents





I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <
adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani





--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph +61 7 3149 3306

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Adriani Botez
 

Dear Quentin,

 

I hope you followed a bit the discussion between Michal and me about this matter. Well apart from the track change in pdf documents, color by color navigation would also make sense in ms word. Lots of sighted people highlight part of text pieces just to show you that they have a question on that. This is also very often the case in our documents. They just tell you, I’ve highlighted the text in yellow or so.

 

Apart from that, imagine the following case: you have let’s say 10 questions on a draft document and put them into an e-mail and send them to 6 parties. Every one has to comment on that and instead of answering just to your original e-mail, every one answers on the last e-mail of the conversation. Now imagine one party saying „please see my comments in blue“, the second one „see my comments in red“ and so on. They also add lots of screenshots and so on between my original e-mail with the questions and the last e-mail of the conversation. At the end I have to scroll lots of pages down to my first e-mail in order to see the comments. But what if I just want to see the red comments or both red and blue comments? It would make sense to navigate by red text color or by red and blue text color and I would save alot of time and would not have to deal with information which is not relevant to me.

 

The next use case is very simple. Imagine you get the task to fill in the yellow cells in ms excel. But they are spread across the sheet and are not ordered properly in one single column. Now if the sheet has 30 columns and 400 rows, how should I find the yellow cells without spending more than a hour?

 

I experienced a lot how sighted people communicate with each other digitally. Instead of defining headings properly, they just change the color of the text or the style (bold etc.). So it would make sense to navigate not just color by color, but also between other formating aspects. NVDA would be able to do that. And it would be great to be able to adjust this in the settings just how you need it for a certain case.

 

Sometimes I was really angry about the lack of accessibility in lots of documents or web sites. But now that this screen reader is so well developped that it can recognize diferent formating and so on, we could adapt it to the way sighted people communicate to each other. This does of course not mean that we should stop raising the awarenes of developers to make their products accessible. But we as users of screen readers would be more flexible on this accessibility issue than we are now.

 

 

I hope it is now more understandable.

 

I am always open for interesting discussions on topics like this.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Montag, 7. August 2017 00:54
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents

 

I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use Word.  In any case:

 

PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in Firefox or any other browser.

 

If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select "document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document incorporating all changes.

 

Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...> wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.

 

Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations (professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is useful to be able to work securely.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents

 

I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to have a look before I can give you an answer".

 

My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you consider converting to another format if needed.

 

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez@...> wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I do so agree with this. I have to make up rotas for the local talking newspaper and of course if one of my sighted colleagues has an issue with a date I have him down for, what does he or she do? Highlight it in red of course.
Not very helpful at the moment.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents


Dear Quentin,



I hope you followed a bit the discussion between Michal and me about this matter. Well apart from the track change in pdf documents, color by color navigation would also make sense in ms word. Lots of sighted people highlight part of text pieces just to show you that they have a question on that. This is also very often the case in our documents. They just tell you, I’ve highlighted the text in yellow or so.



Apart from that, imagine the following case: you have let’s say 10 questions on a draft document and put them into an e-mail and send them to 6 parties. Every one has to comment on that and instead of answering just to your original e-mail, every one answers on the last e-mail of the conversation. Now imagine one party saying „please see my comments in blue“, the second one „see my comments in red“ and so on. They also add lots of screenshots and so on between my original e-mail with the questions and the last e-mail of the conversation. At the end I have to scroll lots of pages down to my first e-mail in order to see the comments. But what if I just want to see the red comments or both red and blue comments? It would make sense to navigate by red text color or by red and blue text color and I would save alot of time and would not have to deal with information which is not relevant to me.



The next use case is very simple. Imagine you get the task to fill in the yellow cells in ms excel. But they are spread across the sheet and are not ordered properly in one single column. Now if the sheet has 30 columns and 400 rows, how should I find the yellow cells without spending more than a hour?



I experienced a lot how sighted people communicate with each other digitally. Instead of defining headings properly, they just change the color of the text or the style (bold etc.). So it would make sense to navigate not just color by color, but also between other formating aspects. NVDA would be able to do that. And it would be great to be able to adjust this in the settings just how you need it for a certain case.



Sometimes I was really angry about the lack of accessibility in lots of documents or web sites. But now that this screen reader is so well developped that it can recognize diferent formating and so on, we could adapt it to the way sighted people communicate to each other. This does of course not mean that we should stop raising the awarenes of developers to make their products accessible. But we as users of screen readers would be more flexible on this accessibility issue than we are now.





I hope it is now more understandable.



I am always open for interesting discussions on topics like this.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Montag, 7. August 2017 00:54
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use Word. In any case:



PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red underlined. There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to. If you export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in Firefox or any other browser.



If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select "document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup". So that is the same as if you accept all changes. You won't see how the document was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document incorporating all changes.



Regards



Quentin.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com <mailto:adriani.botez@gmail.com> > wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations (professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> ] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a format other than docx? The whole point of track changes is that you send me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the appropriate changes made (or removed). Only at that point should you consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io <mailto:adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> > wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306> +61 7 3149 3306

<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess> http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306> +61 7 3149 3306

<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess> http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Quentin Christensen
 

Actually that's a good idea and I can definitely see the use case for that.

I have to leave the computer and do a couple of things in a moment but if someone is free to write that up in a GitHub issue, it will at least be on the radar.

In the meantime, one workaround I can suggest, particularly if all the edits are in the one colour, and you know what it is, you can do it with Word's built in search function by:

1. In your Word document, press control+h to bring up the find and replace dialog (this uses the dialog rather than the task pane).
2. Press control+o to open the "format" menu, then F for font.
3. Press alt+c to jump to colour (note you can get to most of these options with TAB, I'm just putting the shortcut keys because I can).
4. Select the colour you want to search for and press ENTER.
5. TAB to OK and press ENTER again, then ENTER one more time to "Find next" (note we didn't put any text to find, so it's just looking for text of this colour).
6. Press ESCAPE to close the dialog.
7. Press CONTROL+PAGE DOWN to move to the next instance and CONTROL+PAGE UP to move to the previous instance.

Regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I do so agree with this. I have to make up rotas for the local talking newspaper and of course if one of my sighted colleagues has an issue with a date I have him down for, what does he or she do? Highlight it in red of course.
Not very helpful at the moment.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents


Dear Quentin,



I hope you followed a bit the discussion between Michal and me about this matter. Well apart from the track change in pdf documents, color by color navigation would also make sense in ms word. Lots of sighted people highlight part of text pieces just to show you that they have a question on that. This is also very often the case in our documents. They just tell you, I’ve highlighted the text in yellow or so.



Apart from that, imagine the following case: you have let’s say 10 questions on a draft document and put them into an e-mail and send them to 6 parties. Every one has to comment on that and instead of answering just to your original e-mail, every one answers on the last e-mail of the conversation. Now imagine one party saying „please see my comments in blue“, the second one „see my comments in red“ and so on. They also add lots of screenshots and so on between my original e-mail with the questions and the last e-mail of the conversation. At the end I have to scroll lots of pages down to my first e-mail in order to see the comments. But what if I just want to see the red comments or both red and blue comments? It would make sense to navigate by red text color or by red and blue text color and I would save alot of time and would not have to deal with information which is not relevant to me.



The next use case is very simple. Imagine you get the task to fill in the yellow cells in ms excel. But they are spread across the sheet and are not ordered properly in one single column. Now if the sheet has 30 columns and 400 rows, how should I find the yellow cells without spending more than a hour?



I experienced a lot how sighted people communicate with each other digitally. Instead of defining headings properly, they just change the color of the text or the style (bold etc.). So it would make sense to navigate not just color by color, but also between other formating aspects. NVDA would be able to do that. And it would be great to be able to adjust this in the settings just how you need it for a certain case.



Sometimes I was really angry about the lack of accessibility in lots of documents or web sites. But now that this screen reader is so well developped that it can recognize diferent formating and so on, we could adapt it to the way sighted people communicate to each other. This does of course not mean that we should stop raising the awarenes of developers to make their products accessible. But we as users of screen readers would be more flexible on this accessibility issue than we are now.





I hope it is now more understandable.



I am always open for interesting discussions on topics like this.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Montag, 7. August 2017 00:54
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use Word.  In any case:



PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red underlined.  There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to.  If you export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in Firefox or any other browser.



If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select "document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup".  So that is the same as if you accept all changes.  You won't see how the document was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document incorporating all changes.



Regards



Quentin.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@... <mailto:adriani.botez@...m> > wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations (professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> ] Im Auftrag von Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a format other than docx?  The whole point of track changes is that you send me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the appropriate changes made (or removed).  Only at that point should you consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io <mailto:adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io> > wrote:

Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph  <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306> +61 7 3149 3306

<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess> http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph  <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306> +61 7 3149 3306

<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess> http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I had no idea this sort of thing might actually work to be honest. It never crossed my mind to try it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents


Actually that's a good idea and I can definitely see the use case for that.

I have to leave the computer and do a couple of things in a moment but if
someone is free to write that up in a GitHub issue, it will at least be on
the radar.

In the meantime, one workaround I can suggest, particularly if all the
edits are in the one colour, and you know what it is, you can do it with
Word's built in search function by:

1. In your Word document, press control+h to bring up the find and replace
dialog (this uses the dialog rather than the task pane).
2. Press control+o to open the "format" menu, then F for font.
3. Press alt+c to jump to colour (note you can get to most of these options
with TAB, I'm just putting the shortcut keys because I can).
4. Select the colour you want to search for and press ENTER.
5. TAB to OK and press ENTER again, then ENTER one more time to "Find next"
(note we didn't put any text to find, so it's just looking for text of this
colour).
6. Press ESCAPE to close the dialog.
7. Press CONTROL+PAGE DOWN to move to the next instance and CONTROL+PAGE UP
to move to the previous instance.

Regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I do so agree with this. I have to make up rotas for the local talking
newspaper and of course if one of my sighted colleagues has an issue with a
date I have him down for, what does he or she do? Highlight it in red of
course.
Not very helpful at the moment.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Adriani Botez" <
adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents


Dear Quentin,



I hope you followed a bit the discussion between Michal and me about this
matter. Well apart from the track change in pdf documents, color by color
navigation would also make sense in ms word. Lots of sighted people
highlight part of text pieces just to show you that they have a question on
that. This is also very often the case in our documents. They just tell
you, I’ve highlighted the text in yellow or so.



Apart from that, imagine the following case: you have let’s say 10
questions on a draft document and put them into an e-mail and send them to
6 parties. Every one has to comment on that and instead of answering just
to your original e-mail, every one answers on the last e-mail of the
conversation. Now imagine one party saying „please see my comments in
blue“, the second one „see my comments in red“ and so on. They also add
lots of screenshots and so on between my original e-mail with the questions
and the last e-mail of the conversation. At the end I have to scroll lots
of pages down to my first e-mail in order to see the comments. But what if
I just want to see the red comments or both red and blue comments? It would
make sense to navigate by red text color or by red and blue text color and
I would save alot of time and would not have to deal with information which
is not relevant to me.



The next use case is very simple. Imagine you get the task to fill in the
yellow cells in ms excel. But they are spread across the sheet and are not
ordered properly in one single column. Now if the sheet has 30 columns and
400 rows, how should I find the yellow cells without spending more than a
hour?



I experienced a lot how sighted people communicate with each other
digitally. Instead of defining headings properly, they just change the
color of the text or the style (bold etc.). So it would make sense to
navigate not just color by color, but also between other formating aspects.
NVDA would be able to do that. And it would be great to be able to adjust
this in the settings just how you need it for a certain case.



Sometimes I was really angry about the lack of accessibility in lots of
documents or web sites. But now that this screen reader is so well
developped that it can recognize diferent formating and so on, we could
adapt it to the way sighted people communicate to each other. This does of
course not mean that we should stop raising the awarenes of developers to
make their products accessible. But we as users of screen readers would be
more flexible on this accessibility issue than we are now.





I hope it is now more understandable.



I am always open for interesting discussions on topics like this.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Quentin Christensen
Gesendet: Montag, 7. August 2017 00:54
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, I still don't fully understand the use case - if you want to
use track changes, which is a Microsoft Word feature, then you should use
Word. In any case:



PDF as far as I can tell, doesn't support Word's track changes, so it
simply displays the text as it is presented to it - deleted text is
formatted with red strikethrough and inserted text is formatted as red
underlined. There are no annotations etc for NVDA to jump to. If you
export the file to HTML you would find the same thing when you open it in
Firefox or any other browser.



If you really must use PDF, the only thing I can think of is when you save
the file to PDF, if you activate the "options" button, you can select
"document only" instead of the default "Document showing markup". So that
is the same as if you accept all changes. You won't see how the document
was edited, but you will see the latest version of the document
incorporating all changes.



Regards



Quentin.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com
<mailto:adriani.botez@gmail.com> > wrote:

Well, for example if someone would assess a document version and its track
change at that moment and then give his or her opinion on that document so
that the relevant parties can go forward to next version. You can asure
that there are no changes to your track change so far. A pracit´cal case
would be if you have to just review a document which is not addressed to
you but it depends on your assessment. For example auditors etc.



Most private users would probably not meet this case very often. But if
you have alot to do with contracts and contract negotiations
(professionally or even for your own company etc.), then I think it is
useful to be able to work securely.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:
nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> ] Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. August 2017 12:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Track change in PDF documents



I must admit, my first thought was: "I've never tried that, I'll have to
have a look before I can give you an answer".



My second thought is "Why would someone use track changes to highlight a
bunch of changes they want in a Word document, and then send it around in a
format other than docx? The whole point of track changes is that you send
me the document you've written, I use track changes to make adjustments I
think improve it, I send it back to you and you go through and either
accept or reject each, after which, you end up with a document with all the
appropriate changes made (or removed). Only at that point should you
consider converting to another format if needed.



On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, adriani.botez via Groups.Io <adriani.botez=
googlemail.com@groups.io <mailto:adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io>
wrote:
Dear NVDA comunity,

is there any solution to read the track changes when someone saved the
word document as a pdf? In MS word you can jump through them in browse mode
by pressing a. But in pdf documents, NVDA does not read them at all. I
tried to activate the text color in document formating. But it is quite
annoying that I have to navigate line by line to find the changes. In a
document with more than 100 pages is a time wasting task. A short cut as in
ms word would help alot.


Thank you for suggestions

Best
Adriani







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306> +61 7 3149 3306

<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Ph <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306> +61 7 3149 3306

<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess