I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]


John J. Boyer
 

I tried to subscribe to devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io The message was returned to me with the error "unroutable
message." Am I using the wrong address? i think the name of the subgroup should be shortened to devlearn

See the forwarded message.

Thanks,
John

----- Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net> -----

Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:27:58 -0500
To: john@godtouches.org

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io
Unrouteable address

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <john@godtouches.org>
Received: from [68.190.112.237] (helo=localhost)
by mailbox.supranet.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD))
(envelope-from <john@godtouches.org>)
id 1diW4s-000CW4-7f
for devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:27:58 -0500
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:27:58 -0500
From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
To: devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io
Subject: subscribe
Message-ID: <20170818012758.GA21157@abilitiessoft>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

subscribe

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost



----- End forwarded message -----

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Gene
 

I sent my last message to the wrong thread.  Here it is again in the right thread.
 
Gene
 
As far as I know, the list got a message about the subgroup and a subscription address was given.  You are using the wrong address and the correct address doesn't need to be shortened.  The correct address is:
devlearning+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
 

Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: John J. Boyer
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 11:02 PM
Subject: [nvda] I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@...: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]

I tried to subscribe to devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io The message was returned to me with the error "unroutable
message." Am I using the wrong address? i think the name of the subgroup should be shortened to devlearn

See the forwarded message.

Thanks,
John

----- Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@...> -----

Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:27:58 -0500
To: john@...

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io
    Unrouteable address

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <john@...>
Received: from [68.190.112.237] (helo=localhost)
by mailbox.supranet.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD))
(envelope-from <john@...>)
id 1diW4s-000CW4-7f
for devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:27:58 -0500
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:27:58 -0500
From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@...>
To: devlearning@devlearning.nvda.groups.io
Subject: subscribe
Message-ID: <20170818012758.GA21157@abilitiessoft>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

subscribe

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
        that are available at no cost



----- End forwarded message -----

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
        that are available at no cost





 

Well, if this group exists on Groups.io I'll be darned if I can find where.  A group search on "devlearning" returns absolutely nothing, and here are the search results from searching groups for NVDA:  https://groups.io/search?q=NVDA 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


 

Yet, on the Groups.io home page for NVDA there is an email address for a subgroup, devlearning@nvda.groups.io

I guess it's time for a bug report on the beta group.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Gene
 

I'm not sure that subgroups show up when searching for groups.  I seem to recall reading that they don't.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@...: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]

Well, if this group exists on Groups.io I'll be darned if I can find where.  A group search on "devlearning" returns absolutely nothing, and here are the search results from searching groups for NVDA:  https://groups.io/search?q=NVDA 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


 

Gene,

          They don't.  And the thread I've created to report this lack, which I consider a bug, is gaining more traction on the beta group than I would have anticipated.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

The direct links to both the nvda and the devlearning list were posted here yesterday (by me), but finding the proper list on groups.io isn't hard, just search for nvda, and it comes up as one of the very first choices.  Worst case, tell it to show all lists, then keep paging until you find the list names that begin with n, then go down the list until you find the NVDA list.  I've used both methods, and had no trouble either time.



On 8/18/2017 12:31 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Well, if this group exists on Groups.io I'll be darned if I can find where.  A group search on "devlearning" returns absolutely nothing, and here are the search results from searching groups for NVDA:  https://groups.io/search?q=NVDA 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 



Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

Travis,
  
           What you say is all well and good for the main NVDA group and a number of other NVDA related groups, but you're not going to find the devlearning subgroup that way, and that's a problem.  It is not returned in any search.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

After you find the nvda list on groups.io, you simply click on it, and there is a link on that page for subgroups.  Click on that, and you're presented with a list of the subgroups.  All nice and tidy.


On 8/18/2017 3:43 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Travis,
  
           What you say is all well and good for the main NVDA group and a number of other NVDA related groups, but you're not going to find the devlearning subgroup that way, and that's a problem.  It is not returned in any search.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 



Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

Travis,

          I'm not going to say anything after this.  But if you think the random user of this group is going to use the web interface in the first place there is ample evidence that this is contrary to fact.   If they do, if you think they'll "drill down" after a search that's even less likely.

          I wouldn't drill down after a group name search because subgroups should be plainly identified.  They are not.

          Interfaces need to be designed around what "most people" would do.  You, clearly, are not most people, you work far harder than most are willing to, which is a great thing.  But if interfaces were designed for folks like you well over half the world would be unable to locate a darned thing, and that's based on observations from having been in this business since the 1980s.  People are generally lazy, on the whole, and a good user interface takes that into account.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I concur.
I hate forums and try to use web stuff as little as possible because you have the double whammy of being blind, so sites not designed with no global view by the user in mind and secondly you have to then figure out if the site has an understandable logic to it to allow faster use. Sadly the groups.io fails at both in this particular case. I got the impression it was a bolt on goody, and not enough thought was put into it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]


Travis,

I'm not going to say anything after this. But if you think the random user of this group is going to use the web interface in the first place there is ample evidence that this is contrary to fact. If they do, if you think they'll "drill down" after a search that's even less likely.

I wouldn't drill down after a group name search because subgroups should be plainly identified. They are not.

Interfaces need to be designed around what "most people" would do. You, clearly, are not most people, you work far harder than most are willing to, which is a great thing. But if interfaces were designed for folks like you well over half the world would be unable to locate a darned thing, and that's based on observations from having been in this business since the 1980s. People are generally lazy, on the whole, and a good user interface takes that into account.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

a couple of explanatory lines of text seems to be all that is required.
Brian.

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]


I concur.
I hate forums and try to use web stuff as little as possible because you have the double whammy of being blind, so sites not designed with no global view by the user in mind and secondly you have to then figure out if the site has an understandable logic to it to allow faster use. Sadly the groups.io fails at both in this particular case. I got the impression it was a bolt on goody, and not enough thought was put into it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I couldn't subscribe to devlearning. [Mailer-Daemon@mailbox.supranet.net: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]


Travis,

I'm not going to say anything after this. But if you think the random user of this group is going to use the web interface in the first place there is ample evidence that this is contrary to fact. If they do, if you think they'll "drill down" after a search that's even less likely.

I wouldn't drill down after a group name search because subgroups should be plainly identified. They are not.

Interfaces need to be designed around what "most people" would do. You, clearly, are not most people, you work far harder than most are willing to, which is a great thing. But if interfaces were designed for folks like you well over half the world would be unable to locate a darned thing, and that's based on observations from having been in this business since the 1980s. People are generally lazy, on the whole, and a good user interface takes that into account.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*