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bug in browsemode

Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next "normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin
Gene
 

Your discusssion of the second behavior should be clarified.  You evidently want NVDA to continue reading if you use n while speak aall is active so reading will continue without having to execute any other commands.  This should certainly not happen if speak all hasn't been started before the n command is issued. 
 
I don't have an opinion about whether the change you want should be made, but I doubt this is a bug.  It appears to me that the current behavior is a behavior which is intentional that you want changed.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin
Gene
 

Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin
Quentin Christensen
 

Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Martin Thomas Swaton
 



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?


no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items, just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode
Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Martin Thomas Swaton
 



Am 02.10.2017 um 22:14 schrieb Gene:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene

Gene, thanks for your answer. If "n" only should skip to the next block, then the bug is the other way round, as it  seems to read the first line (at least on some blocks)
so it does not behave correct anyway. Either it should read nothing, as you think, then it just jumps to the next block of non-linked text. this would be okay for me, if it does this and reads nothing.

Or it should be, what it does in other screen readers, jump to the next non-linked block and read it - because why should I want to jump to the block if I do not want to read it???
For me this would be the only usecase - jump to it, because I want to read it, so it should be read.

anyway, now it jumps to it and sometimes reads the first line (or says space - maybe if space is the first line) but it does speak something on each keypress.

it definitely is a bug - we just could clarify what the bug exactly is ;-)

hope you can reproduce it
because it really is a bit anoying as it  would be a great way to read through text if it would behave consistent all the time.

best,
Martin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin
Gene
 

I don't recall saying it should read nothing.  I'm saying that it now reads the first line, as I recall.  Then when you use n again, as I recall, it skipts to the next nonlink text and reads the first line of text.  I consider that to be proper behavior unless you have already started speak all, in which case, it would be a matter of discussion on the list for what kind of behavior people want.  I don't have an opinion on the question.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode



Am 02.10.2017 um 22:14 schrieb Gene:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene

Gene, thanks for your answer. If "n" only should skip to the next block, then the bug is the other way round, as it  seems to read the first line (at least on some blocks)
so it does not behave correct anyway. Either it should read nothing, as you think, then it just jumps to the next block of non-linked text. this would be okay for me, if it does this and reads nothing.

Or it should be, what it does in other screen readers, jump to the next non-linked block and read it - because why should I want to jump to the block if I do not want to read it???
For me this would be the only usecase - jump to it, because I want to read it, so it should be read.

anyway, now it jumps to it and sometimes reads the first line (or says space - maybe if space is the first line) but it does speak something on each keypress.

it definitely is a bug - we just could clarify what the bug exactly is ;-)

hope you can reproduce it
because it really is a bit anoying as it  would be a great way to read through text if it would behave consistent all the time.

best,
Martin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin
Sally Kiebdaj
 

It sounds like you would like the n shortcut to work the same way as the k or h shortcuts where the entire element is spoken. However, the t shortcut does not read an entire table but instead brings you to the top of it. Same goes for the list shortcut, I believe. 

Is that a correct characterization of what you are describing and what you would like from the shortcut? 

I am not sure how or why some shortcut keys read the entire element or only focus the start of it but that seems to be the question at hand. 

Cheers,
Sally 
Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Hi Sally,

thanks for your message. Yes I guess you brought it to the point.
the question would have to be looked at more globally then.

Sorry Gene, did not want to fool you, Only did understand you wrong so far. :-)

So, another try to get a step further ...

going back to start with my example of the messenger thread ...

1. When I want to read it message by message the simplest way (I guess) is to jump to the next unlinked textblock, as every message starts with the link to the person who wrotes it.

When I do that right now nvda speaks "space" because the block seems to start with a blank line.

this does not make sense at all, because even if the first line is blank, what sense does it make to tell the user only this?


2. when the key is called "jump to the next unlinked textblock" why shoult it jump to it and only read the first line? I want to hear the whole block I jump to, it is an object and if I get to this object I want to hear it.
If I jump to a list I can understand if only the list title is read, would be fine with that, as the list item is another object.
allthough I also would prefer to have the whole list read automatically.

3. Gene, I do not agree on the "read all" argument, as I aonly want to have nvda read the textblock, then stop. I agree, if I have turned on read all and then press "n" that it should jump to the next unlinked text an go on readin from there ...but then also go on after the end of the textblock. (as you said)
But when I press "n" without read all, it defenitely should read the whole block, as I cannot know how long this block is - and if I press "n" I want to hear the unlinked text ...
if there would be a second line of unlinked text right after that, I never would get there unless I press "cursor down" or "read all" and than would also hear a link if the next line was a link.
So this cannot work properly right now.

I want to read only unlinked text and this is not possible. But it should be possible.

Either, "n" would have to jump to the next line as this is the next unlinked text
or it would have to read the whole block at once.
I guess reading only a line is not what we all want.

if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings: "read whole object when jumped to"
then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works now, or the whole textblock/list/...

I have no idea how complicated that would be to be realiced, but I guess it's only about two or three lines of code actually (for each, the setting and the function).
Even could probably done by an addon?
Would have to read more about the development of them.

cheers
Martin
Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?


no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items, just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode
Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Gene
 

How long is the skipped block?  I've never seen anything about this in NVDA.  JAWS skips small blocks of nonlink text intentionally when using the feature.  Also, do you use the find function and do you use it in such cases as working with an online e-mail client or Internet forums where you may have a reliable item to search for to move to something like the start of a new message or the body of a new message?  for example, in GMaill, as I recall, you can move efficiently to the start of a new message using x to move to the next check box.  I don't use gMail, though I have an account and I played with it a little.  If you want to move to the start of the body of a message, you could move by check box to move to the next message, then use the repeat search command to move to whatever the last line Is before the message body starts after you follow the link to open the new message. 
 
I don't use GMail and my recollection based on the small amount of looking and playing around I did may not work well but in such circumstances, such techniques or similar ones, usually allow me to navigate well or reasonably well.  I doubt that using the skip to nonlink text blocks is generally a good command for moving in ways you want to move.  My understanding of it, from using it regularly is that it is not intended for granular work.  It is intended to move you to the start of main text on a page such as the beginning of an article.  It may not do so on many pages unless you execute it more than once and even so, itg may not move you to just where you want to be.  The start of many articles are links or almost all a link such as the link House of Representatives, end of link.  Because only one word is not a link, it may well be that the skip to the next block of plain text command won't stop there. 
 
 
I don't recall what you use for e-mail.  Perhaps you have to use a web interface for some reason.  But web interfaces are not nearly as efficient for blind people to use for e-mail as e-mail programs are.
 
Also, since I don't work with forums much and I don't work with e-mail online except very rarely, others may have more suggestions for how to do so efficiently.  But the command you are trying to use, as it is generally implemented, not just by NVDA, is probably not very well suited to your purpose.  If you don't use the find command, and other commands such as x for check box, etc., look for patterns and see if using such methods works well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?


no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items, just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode
Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Brian's Mail list account
 

Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode


Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line
of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
zahra
 

hello martin i completely agree with you i also love to hear all of
the content of one object not only the first line.

i also agree with you in your sentences

if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able
to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings:
"read whole object when jumped to"
then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works
now, or the whole textblock/list/...

i tried n twice and nvda only says blank in the messages which i
recieve in my gmail.
i cant understand the reason for my problem.

God bless you.

On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode


Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until
now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line
of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org
Martin Thomas Swaton
 

hi everybody,


@gene the skipped block was exactly the one I mentioned in my example "haha and the next line with just now and so on"

so it is not a really short block, as it has two lines and some words in the second line.


this block must not be skipped


@brian yes I guess it is. firefox did update some days ago and made me switch over from my old screenreader to nvda for every day use. until now i was switching between the two screenreaders regularly. now i am using nvda all the time and because of that try to improve the workflow.

:-)


@zahra thanks again, I guess there are more than we, that would like this behaviour and more users that are facing that "blank" problem when using "n" but did not realice it really.


@gene it is not possible to use some other shortcut in many cases, because pages often only have link and non-linked text and no other elements that could be used  to jump to the next object/area of interest.


e.g. in the example of the facebook messages page I gave. But also on many other webpages or rss feeds to read news, where the non-linked text block is the only block that exists after the links above it.


so a relyable jumping to non-linked text would be really important.

As I missed a lot of text in the last few days because of this bug, that nvda is not reading every unlinked txt


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 09:23 schrieb zahra:

hello martin i completely agree with you i also love to hear all of
the content of one object not only the first line.

i also agree with you in your sentences

if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able
to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings:
"read whole object when jumped to"
then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works
now, or the whole textblock/list/...

i tried n twice and nvda only says blank in the messages which i
recieve in my gmail.
i cant understand the reason for my problem.

God bless you.

On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:
Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode


Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:


Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until
now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line
of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
Gene
 

I'm not talking about just an element.  I'm saying that often, on web pages, there are words or an uncommon word that appears before the text you want that you can search and repeat search for. 
 
Also, at times, if you search for a word like the, followed by a space, it will take you to the first or second line of text you are looking for.  Perhaps searching for the word a followed by a space might work as well or better at times.  Experimentation may help you decide which to try first.  Then, moving by paragraph may be another alternative.  Before screen-readers could move in all the ways they can now, I experimented with various techniques such as I am discussing and they were very useful.  Such techniques aren't taught now and that is a real detriment, making people dependent, with no alternative, on web designers following good design.  The more some designers use accessibility practices and the less people are taught how not to navigate if such are not present, the worse people will do on unfriendly pages.  I don't have much opinion about the changes you want except that perhaps, if they are made available, the user should be able to configure them.  But for now, I'm presenting alternativbes in case they help you or others.  If NVDA puts out a document specifically on INternet use, I think suggestions such as mine should be incorporated to help with unfriendly pages.
 
A responsible mobility teacher would never teach people how to travel only in areas where stop lights have signals.  A lot don't and the same applies to the Internet. 
Gene
----- Original M3essage -----

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode

hi everybody,


@gene the skipped block was exactly the one I mentioned in my example
"haha and the next line with just now and so on"

so it is not a really short block, as it has two lines and some words in
the second line.


this block must not be skipped


@brian yes I guess it is. firefox did update some days ago and made me
switch over from my old screenreader to nvda for every day use. until
now i was switching between the two screenreaders regularly. now i am
using nvda all the time and because of that try to improve the workflow.

:-)


@zahra thanks again, I guess there are more than we, that would like
this behaviour and more users that are facing that "blank" problem when
using "n" but did not realice it really.


@gene it is not possible to use some other shortcut in many cases,
because pages often only have link and non-linked text and no other
elements that could be used  to jump to the next object/area of interest.


e.g. in the example of the facebook messages page I gave. But also on
many other webpages or rss feeds to read news, where the non-linked text
block is the only block that exists after the links above it.


so a relyable jumping to non-linked text would be really important.

As I missed a lot of text in the last few days because of this bug, that
nvda is not reading every unlinked txt


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 09:23 schrieb zahra:
> hello martin i completely agree with you i also love to hear all of
> the content of one object not only the first line.
>
> i also agree with you in your sentences
>
> if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able
> to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings:
> "read whole object when jumped to"
> then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works
> now, or the whole textblock/list/...
>
> i tried n twice and nvda only says blank in the messages which i
> recieve in my gmail.
> i cant understand the reason for my problem.
>
> God bless you.
>
> On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>> Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
>>   Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>
>>
>> Hi once more
>>
>>
>> no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
>> non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.
>>
>>
>> currently I had a conversation that looked like that:
>>
>>
>> link name1
>>
>> textline1
>>
>> Just now
>> link name2
>>
>> haha
>> Just nowSent from Web
>> link name1
>>
>> textline2
>>
>>
>> where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
>> simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.
>>
>> I think this is not as expected.
>>
>> cheers
>> Martin
>>
>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
>>>> Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
>>>> therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
>>>> graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
>>>>
>>> no, it really is just text.
>>> but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.
>>>
>>> had the same with "hm..."
>>> but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
>>> was recognized as text (non linked)
>>>
>>> so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until
>>> now.
>>>
>>> so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
>>> just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
>>>> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
>>>>      How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
>>>>      use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
>>>>      to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
>>>>      make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
>>>>      should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
>>>>      having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
>>>>      again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
>>>>      thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
>>>>      Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
>>>>      as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
>>>>      Gene
>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>      *From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
>>>>      *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
>>>>      *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>      *Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>>>
>>>>      Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
>>>>      browsemode.
>>>>
>>>>      using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
>>>>      website
>>>>      does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
>>>>      text line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      steps to reproduce:
>>>>
>>>>      e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name
>>>>
>>>>      to open a thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      if you type "*smile*"
>>>>
>>>>      or similar on a line
>>>>
>>>>      this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
>>>>      the next
>>>>      "normal" textline.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
>>>>      because
>>>>      of this bug.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
>>>>      read on
>>>>      this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
>>>>      text
>>>>      and does not read the rest of the current block
>>>>
>>>>      because of this second block you always only hear the first line
>>>>      of a
>>>>      textblock when using "n"
>>>>
>>>>      so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
>>>>      line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
>>>>      to read
>>>>      on, which does not make any sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      cheers
>>>>
>>>>      Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>
>>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>
>>>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Martin Thomas Swaton
 

Gene,


yeah, I absolutely second all your ideas how to come arround such problems.

sadly to stay with my example, there is really nothing  that repeats and nothing you could search for. just links and non-linked text after eachother


but the reason why I wrote - that I think the block should be read and not "blank" or the first line (which is interchanging) is not the main problem anymore.

At least it should be relyable that non-linked text really is read and not skipped

as otherwise the key "n" is completely useless, as you never know if text will be read or not and you could miss a lot of information this way


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 14:23 schrieb Gene:

I'm not talking about just an element.  I'm saying that often, on web pages, there are words or an uncommon word that appears before the text you want that you can search and repeat search for. 
 
Also, at times, if you search for a word like the, followed by a space, it will take you to the first or second line of text you are looking for.  Perhaps searching for the word a followed by a space might work as well or better at times.  Experimentation may help you decide which to try first.  Then, moving by paragraph may be another alternative.  Before screen-readers could move in all the ways they can now, I experimented with various techniques such as I am discussing and they were very useful.  Such techniques aren't taught now and that is a real detriment, making people dependent, with no alternative, on web designers following good design.  The more some designers use accessibility practices and the less people are taught how not to navigate if such are not present, the worse people will do on unfriendly pages.  I don't have much opinion about the changes you want except that perhaps, if they are made available, the user should be able to configure them.  But for now, I'm presenting alternativbes in case they help you or others.  If NVDA puts out a document specifically on INternet use, I think suggestions such as mine should be incorporated to help with unfriendly pages.
 
A responsible mobility teacher would never teach people how to travel only in areas where stop lights have signals.  A lot don't and the same applies to the Internet. 
Gene
----- Original M3essage -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode

hi everybody,


@gene the skipped block was exactly the one I mentioned in my example
"haha and the next line with just now and so on"

so it is not a really short block, as it has two lines and some words in
the second line.


this block must not be skipped


@brian yes I guess it is. firefox did update some days ago and made me
switch over from my old screenreader to nvda for every day use. until
now i was switching between the two screenreaders regularly. now i am
using nvda all the time and because of that try to improve the workflow.

:-)


@zahra thanks again, I guess there are more than we, that would like
this behaviour and more users that are facing that "blank" problem when
using "n" but did not realice it really.


@gene it is not possible to use some other shortcut in many cases,
because pages often only have link and non-linked text and no other
elements that could be used  to jump to the next object/area of interest.


e.g. in the example of the facebook messages page I gave. But also on
many other webpages or rss feeds to read news, where the non-linked text
block is the only block that exists after the links above it.


so a relyable jumping to non-linked text would be really important.

As I missed a lot of text in the last few days because of this bug, that
nvda is not reading every unlinked txt


cheers

Martin



Am 04.10.2017 um 09:23 schrieb zahra:
> hello martin i completely agree with you i also love to hear all of
> the content of one object not only the first line.
>
> i also agree with you in your sentences
>
> if this is nothing everyone sees this way and wants to have to be able
> to read more comfortable, why not add a checkbox in the settings:
> "read whole object when jumped to"
> then everybody could decide to hear only the first line, as it works
> now, or the whole textblock/list/...
>
> i tried n twice and nvda only says blank in the messages which i
> recieve in my gmail.
> i cant understand the reason for my problem.
>
> God bless you.
>
> On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>> Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
>>   Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>
>>
>> Hi once more
>>
>>
>> no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
>> non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.
>>
>>
>> currently I had a conversation that looked like that:
>>
>>
>> link name1
>>
>> textline1
>>
>> Just now
>> link name2
>>
>> haha
>> Just nowSent from Web
>> link name1
>>
>> textline2
>>
>>
>> where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
>> simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.
>>
>> I think this is not as expected.
>>
>> cheers
>> Martin
>>
>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
>>>> Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
>>>> therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
>>>> graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
>>>>
>>> no, it really is just text.
>>> but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.
>>>
>>> had the same with "hm..."
>>> but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
>>> was recognized as text (non linked)
>>>
>>> so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until
>>> now.
>>>
>>> so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
>>> just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".
>>>
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...
>>>> <mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
>>>>      How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
>>>>      use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
>>>>      to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
>>>>      make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
>>>>      should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
>>>>      having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
>>>>      again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
>>>>      thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
>>>>      Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
>>>>      as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
>>>>      Gene
>>>>      ----- Original Message -----
>>>>      *From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@...>
>>>>      *Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
>>>>      *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>      *Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode
>>>>
>>>>      Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
>>>>      browsemode.
>>>>
>>>>      using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
>>>>      website
>>>>      does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
>>>>      text line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      steps to reproduce:
>>>>
>>>>      e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name
>>>>
>>>>      to open a thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      if you type "*smile*"
>>>>
>>>>      or similar on a line
>>>>
>>>>      this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
>>>>      the next
>>>>      "normal" textline.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
>>>>      because
>>>>      of this bug.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
>>>>      read on
>>>>      this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
>>>>      text
>>>>      and does not read the rest of the current block
>>>>
>>>>      because of this second block you always only hear the first line
>>>>      of a
>>>>      textblock when using "n"
>>>>
>>>>      so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
>>>>      line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
>>>>      to read
>>>>      on, which does not make any sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      cheers
>>>>
>>>>      Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>
>>>> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
>>>> available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>
>>>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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