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Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox

Joseph Lee #28281 Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph
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Gene #28283 How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph
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Joseph Lee #28284 Hi, You need to keep this checkbox unchecked. And I haven’t found an easy way to reverse this at the moment (Alt+T, O won’t work here). Cheers, Joseph toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 8:43 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph
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Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> #28286 Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> #28287 Hi Joseph Why would they put in such a setting? I am guessing if checked it would speed up the browser for the sighted but be use less if checked for us. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:50 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi, You need to keep this checkbox unchecked. And I haven’t found an easy way to reverse this at the moment (Alt+T, O won’t work here). Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 8:43 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...> #28292 There will be a problem when browsing through very dense web pages with lots of links and info. I just tried facebook.com, talksport.com, bbcNews.com, these pages are so sluggish that it would be better to use internet explorer instead. Cheers! On 26/10/2017 12:19 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote: toggle quoted message Show quoted text Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Joseph Lee #28293 Hi everyone, It is there as part of a foundation for a very huge work that’ll fundamentally change how screen readers think about communicating with web browsers. The story goes like this (and if you want, please do pass this onto others): In the early days of web accessibility for screen reader users (back when there was no UIA, no visible standards organizations for accessibility, etc.), the only effective way for screen readers to present web content was sending out “scouts” who’ll bring back envelopes containing the entire HTML code for a webpage. These scouts would use a highway called “code injection” to speed up their travel. Once the envelopes are opened, screen readers will thread the contents together into a “navigable document”. In other words, a web document was constructed twice for you: once on the web browser window, and rendered by your screen reader a second time on top of that. The advantage of this method is that screen readers knew where things were, because they had a “map” in front of them that pointed to where the next given element was, listing postings with routes to links on the document and so on. This meant navigating around a page was simple and very fast. However, this opened a chasm: if a screen reader was walking along a path and was “kidnapped” one day, the “kidnapper” would force the screen reader to give commands to “scouts”, whose only job was to fetch something on behalf of their leader. Fast forward almost two decades, and current screen reader and web browser landscape is filled with those who travel by the code injection highway, and those who send and receive “letters” and “beacons”. The former is the case with Internet Explorer and older versions of Firefox, and the latter is for Microsoft Edge. These days, more web browsers are asking screen readers to send more letters than scouts, which has huge implications for users and developers. Technical (if you want, please do send this out to others): first, some definitions: Scout: code injection routines, typically a DLL from a screen reader that inserts a piece of screen reader code inside a web browser to construct webpages. Code injection: programs inserting code into each other’s workspaces with or without others (including operating systems) noticing it. Workspace: memory used by programs. Typically called “address space”. Letters: API and other well-documented routines or contracts. Beacons: instructions from web browsers for screen readers, especially referring to document movement routines. With this in mind, the geeky version is as follows: When MSAA first came out in late 1990’s, it was designed to let screen readers receive information about program controls, mostly static ones. Hence, it wasn’t really designed for places such as web browsers where document content can change without notice. For this case, screen readers will inject part of their code (typically in the form of a DLL) inside a web browser process to monitor events such as when a website is being loaded. Once the DLL realizes that you’ve navigated to a new page, it’ll fetch the entire HTML code for that page and send it back to main screen reader code. This main code, typically in the form of a document formatting library, will construct (technically, reconstruct) a webpage according to rules it knows best. But imagine a malware comes along and takes over a screen reader (which can actually happen if a malware holds special privileges and exploits a weakness in screen readers). Unless the malware doesn’t know about it, it now has a way to inject itself into other processes (not just web browsers) in the form of a screen reader DLL or redirecting the DLL’s operation to the malware module. This is made more possible by the fact that screen readers are deemed TRUSTED by operating systems, which means screen readers can perform tasks other programs are envious of (including starting early). This is perhaps one of the most critical security holes that can be opened by anyone (besides taking over an operating system routine or an important DLL or a driver). In theory, you can get around this by starting a pristine (clean) screen reader, but even that can be attacked if the malware wishes to do so. These days, web browsers are taking the initiative to close the code injection gateway. An early start was some old browsers, including Internet Explorer 7, but even then, screen readers have found a way to open the gateway. Due to security concerns, Microsoft Edge will not allow code injection; instead, screen readers are asked to use UIA to communicate with Edge and to yield document navigation routines to Edge itself. Same will happen with a future version of Firefox, but we don’t know when that’ll happen. NV Access is taking this possibility seriously and are actively working with Mozilla to rectify this as soon as possible (also, don’t forget that a former NVDA developer is now working for Mozilla Foundation, and NV Access and Mozilla have a good relationship regarding mutual support, especially when it comes to web standards and accessibility). Reference: Zehe, Marco. Rethinking Web Accessibility on Windows, Marco’s Accessibility Blog, September 29, 2017. URL: https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ Cheers, Joseph toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 9:23 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi Joseph Why would they put in such a setting? I am guessing if checked it would speed up the browser for the sighted but be use less if checked for us. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:50 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi, You need to keep this checkbox unchecked. And I haven’t found an easy way to reverse this at the moment (Alt+T, O won’t work here). Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 8:43 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Joseph Lee #28294 Hi, As for that, it is due to the fact that Firefox is using multiple processes for accessibility routines, which impacts NVDA. Cheers, Joseph toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jaffar Sidek Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 9:49 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox There will be a problem when browsing through very dense web pages with lots of links and info. I just tried facebook.com, talksport.com, bbcNews.com, these pages are so sluggish that it would be better to use internet explorer instead. Cheers! On 26/10/2017 12:19 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote: Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Ron Canazzi #28297 Hi Joseph, So if you leave that checkbox unchecked, how accessible is Firefox Quantum then? On 10/25/2017 11:34 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Ron Canazzi #28298 I thought he said it was unchecked by default. On 10/25/2017 11:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Joseph Lee #28299 Hi, If unchecked, it’ll behave like old versions (usable, although slower). Cheers, Joseph toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:27 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi Joseph, So if you leave that checkbox unchecked, how accessible is Firefox Quantum then? On 10/25/2017 11:34 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: Browse mode and focus mode Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands Object navigation and review modes OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Brian's Mail list account #28310 Why in the world would anyone want such a feature to be there? Have Avast bought them out? They seem very fond of sod the bblind type systems. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:34 AM Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast. The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won't be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph
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Brian's Mail list account #28311 No I think he is saying its not on by default but you can bet your life that any machine used by a security conscious person will put it on and just like Avast, then you are stuffed. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:43 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast. The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won't be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: a.. Browse mode and focus mode b.. Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands c.. Object navigation and review modes d.. OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph
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Brian's Mail list account #28313 That last point about the error of no page loaded has been with FF for over 1 year to my knowledge. I'm always hitting try again even on a fast machine, I think the problem is some internal code is too hasty at giving up trying to get the page. It also manifests itself on places like File Hippo update checker where the list of updates is completely missed off the page unless you refresh it. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee<mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- [Image NVDA certified expert] Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Brian's Mail list account #28315 Surely then this will still be the case for the sighted as well, so what is the point in changing it? I do not want to lose Firefox, IE is rubbish as its not being updated. As long as somebody keeps Firefox 55 up to date then I have a very good feeling that a lot of people out there will want to keep it. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaffar Sidek" <jaffar.sidek10@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:48 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox There will be a problem when browsing through very dense web pages with lots of links and info. I just tried facebook.com, talksport.com, bbcNews.com, these pages are so sluggish that it would be better to use internet explorer instead. Cheers! On 26/10/2017 12:19 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote: Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Image NVDA certified expert Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Robert Mendoza #28316 Hi, Sorry to interfere the discussion here. I am playing around to test the beta version of Firefox to my other machine. However, the problem is that I could not go to the Permission section under the Privacy and Security panel to disable the Prevent accessibility services. I am currently using nvda version 2017.3 into my Windows 10. I appreciate your response. Thanks. Robert Mendoza toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 10/26/2017 3:39 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote: That last point about the error of no page loaded has been with FF for over 1 year to my knowledge. I'm always hitting try again even on a fast machine, I think the problem is some internal code is too hasty at giving up trying to get the page. It also manifests itself on places like File Hippo update checker where the list of updates is completely missed off the page unless you refresh it. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee<mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- [Image NVDA certified expert] Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Brian's Mail list account #28317 So then are they not jumping the gun rather in putting out version57 now with much poorer performance via the old method, but still not come up with a workable alternative for screenreaders? Also is there any proof out there that screenreader type code injection has been successfully used to gain access to an operating system or browser. I read access stuff widely and I've not heard of it. I guess what I'm saying is this. Is all this just paranoia or has it become a problem. If it has, then I'd have thought this issue would have been tackled back in the windows 7 days. My feeling on this is that there is an element of justification of existence and one upmanship about all this, and in the middle is the customer who is mostly the weakest link in the security screen of software in my experience. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:55 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi everyone, It is there as part of a foundation for a very huge work that'll fundamentally change how screen readers think about communicating with web browsers. The story goes like this (and if you want, please do pass this onto others): In the early days of web accessibility for screen reader users (back when there was no UIA, no visible standards organizations for accessibility, etc.), the only effective way for screen readers to present web content was sending out "scouts" who'll bring back envelopes containing the entire HTML code for a webpage. These scouts would use a highway called "code injection" to speed up their travel. Once the envelopes are opened, screen readers will thread the contents together into a "navigable document". In other words, a web document was constructed twice for you: once on the web browser window, and rendered by your screen reader a second time on top of that. The advantage of this method is that screen readers knew where things were, because they had a "map" in front of them that pointed to where the next given element was, listing postings with routes to links on the document and so on. This meant navigating around a page was simple and very fast. However, this opened a chasm: if a screen reader was walking along a path and was "kidnapped" one day, the "kidnapper" would force the screen reader to give commands to "scouts", whose only job was to fetch something on behalf of their leader. Fast forward almost two decades, and current screen reader and web browser landscape is filled with those who travel by the code injection highway, and those who send and receive "letters" and "beacons". The former is the case with Internet Explorer and older versions of Firefox, and the latter is for Microsoft Edge. These days, more web browsers are asking screen readers to send more letters than scouts, which has huge implications for users and developers. Technical (if you want, please do send this out to others): first, some definitions: * Scout: code injection routines, typically a DLL from a screen reader that inserts a piece of screen reader code inside a web browser to construct webpages. * Code injection: programs inserting code into each other's workspaces with or without others (including operating systems) noticing it. * Workspace: memory used by programs. Typically called "address space". * Letters: API and other well-documented routines or contracts. * Beacons: instructions from web browsers for screen readers, especially referring to document movement routines. With this in mind, the geeky version is as follows: When MSAA first came out in late 1990's, it was designed to let screen readers receive information about program controls, mostly static ones. Hence, it wasn't really designed for places such as web browsers where document content can change without notice. For this case, screen readers will inject part of their code (typically in the form of a DLL) inside a web browser process to monitor events such as when a website is being loaded. Once the DLL realizes that you've navigated to a new page, it'll fetch the entire HTML code for that page and send it back to main screen reader code. This main code, typically in the form of a document formatting library, will construct (technically, reconstruct) a webpage according to rules it knows best. But imagine a malware comes along and takes over a screen reader (which can actually happen if a malware holds special privileges and exploits a weakness in screen readers). Unless the malware doesn't know about it, it now has a way to inject itself into other processes (not just web browsers) in the form of a screen reader DLL or redirecting the DLL's operation to the malware module. This is made more possible by the fact that screen readers are deemed TRUSTED by operating systems, which means screen readers can perform tasks other programs are envious of (including starting early). This is perhaps one of the most critical security holes that can be opened by anyone (besides taking over an operating system routine or an important DLL or a driver). In theory, you can get around this by starting a pristine (clean) screen reader, but even that can be attacked if the malware wishes to do so. These days, web browsers are taking the initiative to close the code injection gateway. An early start was some old browsers, including Internet Explorer 7, but even then, screen readers have found a way to open the gateway. Due to security concerns, Microsoft Edge will not allow code injection; instead, screen readers are asked to use UIA to communicate with Edge and to yield document navigation routines to Edge itself. Same will happen with a future version of Firefox, but we don't know when that'll happen. NV Access is taking this possibility seriously and are actively working with Mozilla to rectify this as soon as possible (also, don't forget that a former NVDA developer is now working for Mozilla Foundation, and NV Access and Mozilla have a good relationship regarding mutual support, especially when it comes to web standards and accessibility). Reference: * Zehe, Marco. Rethinking Web Accessibility on Windows, Marco's Accessibility Blog, September 29, 2017. URL: https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 9:23 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi Joseph Why would they put in such a setting? I am guessing if checked it would speed up the browser for the sighted but be use less if checked for us. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:50 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi, You need to keep this checkbox unchecked. And I haven't found an easy way to reverse this at the moment (Alt+T, O won't work here). Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 8:43 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast. The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won't be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Brian's Mail list account #28318 But although I never use twitface, I do use bbc and 55 seems still reasonably snappy with that site. However some of the main newspapers web sites are really just too busy with rubbish in my view, and this is off topic to some degree. I'm oftentold by mainstream sighted people that they are now finding web sites with bells whistles and clutter to be very hard to use and want the old days of simplicity back. So do we! Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:57 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi, As for that, it is due to the fact that Firefox is using multiple processes for accessibility routines, which impacts NVDA. Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jaffar Sidek Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 9:49 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox There will be a problem when browsing through very dense web pages with lots of links and info. I just tried facebook.com, talksport.com, bbcNews.com, these pages are so sluggish that it would be better to use internet explorer instead. Cheers! On 26/10/2017 12:19 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote: Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast. The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won't be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Brian's Mail list account #28319 It is really silly that we went through all that grief a while back to support multi processors and hopefully speed it up to end up scrapping all that work and going off on a new tack which is worse, at least until they reinvent their wheel next time. As a matter of interest, is there any sign of Chrome going down this road as well? I'm also wondering if there might be some third party out there making a browser based on the old Gecko engine that we could use instead. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 6:31 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi, If unchecked, it'll behave like old versions (usable, although slower). Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:27 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi Joseph, So if you leave that checkbox unchecked, how accessible is Firefox Quantum then? On 10/25/2017 11:34 PM, Joseph Lee wrote: Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast. The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won't be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes. They ask: "How Happy are You?" I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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Brian's Mail list account #28323 But I gathered its no onby default so if you put it on then you obviously wont be able to turn it off as that is the whole point of it according to Joseph. Suggestion On many self voicing programs I have found these settings of checkboxes are in the registry and having access to two machines can show what has been changed and the registry updated manually or via merging in a overwriting file from an admin account. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi, Sorry to interfere the discussion here. I am playing around to test the beta version of Firefox to my other machine. However, the problem is that I could not go to the Permission section under the Privacy and Security panel to disable the Prevent accessibility services. I am currently using nvda version 2017.3 into my Windows 10. I appreciate your response. Thanks. Robert Mendoza On 10/26/2017 3:39 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote: That last point about the error of no page loaded has been with FF for over 1 year to my knowledge. I'm always hitting try again even on a fast machine, I think the problem is some internal code is too hasty at giving up trying to get the page. It also manifests itself on places like File Hippo update checker where the list of updates is completely missed off the page unless you refresh it. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi gene I downloaded the 57 beta a little while ago and found the setting he was talking about. Mine was already unchecked. I downloaded the beta of 57 and i am just looking around now. The menus are been spoken. The quick navigation keys seem to be working etc. There is a little lag some times when you go to the menus and or left or right arrow. I was just having a look in the options section it looks like only 4 tabs now I have read a couple of articles so far from our stuff website and gone back and forth between pages. as mentioned there is a little lag at times seems no worser than 56 actually at a few times seemed quicker. Now and again you have to refresh the page as like the page does not load and using the f5 key lets it load. Gene nz On 10/26/2017 4:43 PM, Gene wrote: How do you disable it if you can't work with menus and all the other structures you discussed? Can you use the command alt t then o to get into the options dialog and can it be worked with? Are you saying that we need to check this check box in the options dialog? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee<mailto:joseph.lee22590@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Mandatory advisory: when Firefox 57 lands, do NOT check "prevent accessibility services" checkbox Hi all, Well, the tests ended so fast… The following is a community-based advisory that is mandatory for you all to listen up and follow: If Firefox 57 is set to prevent accessibility services, you won’t be able to use Firefox at all. The following NVDA features will fail: * Browse mode and focus mode * Web browser features such as elements list and first letter navigation commands * Object navigation and review modes * OCR functionality ADVISORY: when Firefox 57 lands, DO NOT check “prevent accessibility services” checkbox in Firefox options. By default, this checkbox is unchecked. Technical: NVDA uses mixture of code injection and accessibility API routines to access Firefox. However, when accessibility services are turned off, Firefox enters a mode where the UI and browse mode functionality will not work with screen readers. This means no announcements regarding menu bar, no toolbar navigation feedback, no feedback when you type into address bar, no browse mode and so on. The only way to restore it so far is disabling the checkbox described above until NVDA finds a way to interact with Firefox Quantum. Cheers, Joseph -- [Image NVDA certified expert] Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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