NVDA and office 2016
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Mary Otten <motten53@...>
Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net, and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version. Mary Sent from my iPhone
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Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary, Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016). If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Kind regards Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote: Hi all, --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Mary Otten <motten53@...>
Thanks, Quentin. I guess I was too hasty on the envy access training area site. I saw the tutorial on getting started. But I missed other things. I will definitely go back and check that out. Mary Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 8, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
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Quentin Christensen
No problem, glad I could be helpful! Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Michal Rada
Yes, but, there are some minor changes.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
For example new quick search for menus, by ALT+2 keyboard Unfortunatelly, in Word 2016, it does not speak comments curently. I dont know if there is bug of NVDA or in Word. Michal Dne 8.11.2017 v 23:42 Mary Otten napsal(a):
Hi all,
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Devin Prater
My biggest problem is that NVDA is rather sluggish when working in Microsoft Office 2016. I’ve sent a log file about it, and it mainly happens when arrowing around in Word.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor in Training JAWS, Microsoft Outlook, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint certified by World Services for the Blind
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Quentin Christensen
Michael, do you mean it used to speak comments and now it isn't? If so, do you know when it changed? And are you in the Office Insiders or using the regular stable version of Office? I'm not on a machine with Office 2016 currently but I'll have a look this afternoon, certainly, it worked for me last time I tried. Kind regards Quentin.
On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 2:36 AM, Michal Rada <michal@...> wrote: Yes, but, there are some minor changes. --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Steve Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Steve Nutt
Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.
I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.
So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.
I don’t call that fixed, do you?
Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?
Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.
In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.
Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?
It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.
My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.
So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.
Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.
Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.
I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:01 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016
Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Hi, Can you try one more thing for me: what about Narrator? If it does not happen with Narrator, then I’ll remind Mick to give this the highest of highest of priorities. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:18 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016
Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.
I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.
So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.
I don’t call that fixed, do you?
Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?
Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.
In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.
Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?
It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.
My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.
So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.
Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.
Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.
I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Gene
How are you switching to folders? I've seen
this discussed before either here or on another list and crashing doesn't occur
if you switch to folders in one way and it does if you switch in another.
I suspect that your expression crashing all over the place is extreme hyperbole
as the only complaint I remember seen is when switching folders and you
are discussing it as well. If a problem is a general one, it's fine to say
so but if, as I suspect, it occurs only in switching folders, overstating the
extent is misleading.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.
I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.
So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.
I don’t call that fixed, do you?
Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?
Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.
In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.
Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?
It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.
My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.
So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.
Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.
Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.
I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.
All the best
Steve
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin
Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Adriani Botez
I think we need more code contributors. There are still over 1.500 issues on github which still have to be solved. I hope nv access is aware of that. There are lots of excelent programmers on the market. Lots of them can also bring strong innovative thinking.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Best Adriani
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Ian Robinson <ian228@...>
Hi,
If I press Control+y, select a folder and press Enter, then Outlook will crash. If I press Shift+F6, select a folder and press Enter, then all works just fine.
If I press Control plus a number to select another part of Outlook, such as Calendar or People, then outlook will crash. If I press Shift+F6 twice to get to the Navigation bar and use the cursor keys and Enter to select another part of Outlook then there is no crash.
Regards.
Ian
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 10 November 2017 18:05 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016
How are you switching to folders? I've seen this discussed before either here or on another list and crashing doesn't occur if you switch to folders in one way and it does if you switch in another. I suspect that your expression crashing all over the place is extreme hyperbole as the only complaint I remember seen is when switching folders and you are discussing it as well. If a problem is a general one, it's fine to say so but if, as I suspect, it occurs only in switching folders, overstating the extent is misleading.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.
I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.
So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.
I don’t call that fixed, do you?
Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?
Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.
In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.
Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?
It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.
My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.
So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.
Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.
Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.
I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.
All the best
Steve
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Brian's Mail list account
Sounds like the same issue that even outlook 2003 has to me.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Not much point in telling my friend with the old version of office to upgrade if things are just as bad with the new version. sigh. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Robinson" <ian228@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016 Hi,
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Brian's Mail list account
Is this being coordinated between nvaccess and Microsoft? Often one of the issues one sees is that both entities work in a bubble and the end result can be a bit of a mess.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Do nvaccess know what the actual issue is, and do they know what the other manufacturers have done? I'd expect if they are in contact with Msoft then nvaccess should be able to fix the issue, regardless of whose fault it is. I mean the fact is that I have a vested interest as it seems to affect some Outlooks right the way back to 2003, which nvda says is too old but its a screenreader for those with low incomes so maybe should rethink this policy? Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016 Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016 Hi Quentin, Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again. I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls. All the best Steve From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016 Hi Mary, Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016). If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Kind regards Quentin. On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@... <mailto:motten53@...> > wrote: Hi all, I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net <http://central.net> , and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version. Mary Sent from my iPhone -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess> http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Then, the question becomes what is too old? How do you move forward and keep the older stuff still ticking along?
On 11/10/2017 2:35 PM, Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Is this being coordinated between nvaccess and Microsoft? Often one of the issues one sees is that both entities work in a bubble and the end result can be a bit of a mess.
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My suspician would be go on as long as you can till it becomes not feesable.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
With xp after xp went away, people used it till not feesable. For nvda its just happened, for java and firefox that happened earlier than that. klite just anounced that their codec packs will no longer support it. So as long as components support and as long as it doesn't cost more it will be supported. The same will happen with apps, web brousers, skype things on and on and on and on. It reminds me of the university cafe I went to for lunch, I used to buy some sushi, or a salad or a pie, cake and a drink. In the first year they were home made at a price. The next year it scaled back a bit due to competition factors etc. The final year I was there it scaled even back further. And in the last year all the cafe type things mostly went away because of similar things. The same thing is happening with technology. I watched an interview with steve jobs talking about apple, how things have changed now. The point is we have a lot of things and we can't expand for ever we need to move stuff about cut stuff out, etc, etc,etc its a continuing pattern.
On 11/11/2017 8:37 a.m., Governor staten wrote:
Then, the question becomes what is too old? How do you move forward and keep the older stuff still ticking along?
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Steve Nutt
Hi Joseph,
OK, you got me there. It does happen with Narrator as well.
But interestingly, it doesn’t happen with the paid for screen readers, at least not JAWS and Supernova anyway.
So I guess the moral of that is you gets what you pay for? <Smile>.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:42 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016
Hi, Can you try one more thing for me: what about Narrator? If it does not happen with Narrator, then I’ll remind Mick to give this the highest of highest of priorities. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.
I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.
So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.
I don’t call that fixed, do you?
Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?
Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.
In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.
Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?
It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.
My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.
So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.
Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.
Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.
I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Steve Nutt
Hi,
Please clarify the way to switch folders without a crash then? If I do it from the navigation pane, crash. If I do it with Control-Y, crash. What other way is there to do it?
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 10 November 2017 18:05 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016
How are you switching to folders? I've seen this discussed before either here or on another list and crashing doesn't occur if you switch to folders in one way and it does if you switch in another. I suspect that your expression crashing all over the place is extreme hyperbole as the only complaint I remember seen is when switching folders and you are discussing it as well. If a problem is a general one, it's fine to say so but if, as I suspect, it occurs only in switching folders, overstating the extent is misleading.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.
I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.
So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.
I don’t call that fixed, do you?
Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?
Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.
In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.
Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?
It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.
My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.
So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.
Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.
Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.
I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Hi, It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Hi Quentin,
Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.
I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Hi Mary,
Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).
If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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