NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions


Sky Mundell
 

Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.


Bhavya shah
 

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case
of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases
of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that
the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused
NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any
specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he
can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the
above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would
dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds
no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen
reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However,
the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less
secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in
corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this
issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going
to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being
updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at
Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not
being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due
to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody
from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would
be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Sky Mundell
 

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Bhavya shah
 

Hi Sky,
Alright.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this
subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya
shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of
the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this
assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has
the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to
substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security
vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above
questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss
such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give
me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125
or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750






--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


 

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Sky Mundell
 

Hello Joseph. I totally agree with you about Open Source products being community driven. You are definitely right about Open Sorce and I totally agree with you. I have come across organisations and things for NVDA for sure. When I heard him speak, I was going to ask those questions myself but we were on a schedule because we had other things to cover in the meeting. But I will ask him them next moth for sure!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
 

Hi,

I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Sky


It is Gene from New Zealand. I noted that you said about NVDA and the teckie guy and what he said.


About 10 years ago a basic version of NVDA went into our library system here. it was rolled out to the rest of the country later on that year. Every year they have updated NVDA to the latest version of NVDA


You could not do this with a commercial version of a screen reader. I also told them about windows eyes free offer and they were not even interested. the lady or guy that pit onto the network when we got a award she had a cus who was visually impaired.

 

It covers from the top of New Zealand to pretty much the bottom of New Zealand at about 150 locations and NVDA is on about 750 computers throughout the network. If they are worried they can always lock it down and also stop portable access as well.

In my town here we have computers and i can go up to any one and there is a copy of NVDA on it.


The following link will show there is NVDA on there computers at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/accessibility


The next link shows the locations where NVDA can be accessed throughout New Zealand at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/statistics

It looks as though the news article goes to another page now so will either find it or remove it the same with magnification.


I can also put the person in contact with them and who to talk to as well.


My website seems to be going up and down and am wondering weather to stay with them or get another or even a new domain name.


Actually i just googled the article so will link it up there. The article can be found at http://www2.nzherald.co.nz/stratford-press/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503390&objectid=10973253

It is the article that went into the local news paper way back then.

I would if you do show him show the links straight to those pages as I know on my page where it is it will not help if the site is going up and down.

if he is worried about security

as i said he can always lock it down but make sure he does not remove the shortcut to start it.

NVDA is also in 2 information centres here in Taranaki and also at a training provider here in town.

When you do look at the nvda user statistics for new zealand you will notice the update feature is turned off so will not show unless people have it on.


I will tidy up the page tomorrow that has the info on it so it is up to date.


Hope it helps.


gene nz


Gene nz

On 11/9/2017 6:39 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we can protect nvda if any from this.

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws jaws or nothing.

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

Not the users issue.

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and organisations are paying for licences.

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:
Hi,

I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750













Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think they misunderstand open source. So they won't use Firefox then and various other programs. I think the point is their system needs to be secure in the first place. I'm sure many countries do use NVDA in libraries and I'd dispute its any less secure than many other programs open source or not. Tools exist nowadays to crack open any software so really they seem to be a bit out of date and maybe a bit complacent about their existing security as well in the current climate of criminality.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 5:39 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions


Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think they are way out of date with that attitude. Programs with closed source are routinely cracked by the less savoury folk out there, and so there is no point in hiding behind that particular wall. Remember it was only a couple of months ago that Ccleaner was issued with a trojan embedded in it on many web sites, and that is paid for software.

The approach in my opinion needs to be much wider than individual software, but system wide and nothing should be taken for granted.

No wonder so much hacking of commercial companies is going on if their admins are relying on others simply because they paid for the software.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike and Jenna" <schwaltze@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions


Hi,

I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

This is a whole other angle. You choose what works in the environment you work in, and as said nobody should need to buy their own access software if a company updates its stuff so you cannot use it. Its morally wrong though that never stops companies trying to kick out blind workers but the law in many countries is now stronger on constructive dismissal and other things.
I know that libraries use Firefox quite a lot, and wonder if they realise this is open source software?
Also I bet loads of companies use Android Phones, which is hardly the most closely guarded code in the world, is it!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions


Hi,
My workplace provided me with jaws.
Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?
Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.


From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying
nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

I know we have a good security review of addons, but what are ways we
can protect nvda if any from this.

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws
jaws or nothing.

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot
the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an
system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let
them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

Not the users issue.

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not
paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and
organisations are paying for licences.

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.




On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:
Hi,

I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750














Pascal Lambert
 

That is the sure way to go.  I just helped, here in Knoxville Tennessee  the American Job Center install NVDA on their resource center computer for use by blind and visually impaired patrons.  Every public place ought to do the same.

Blessings

Pascal 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 3:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Sky

 

It is Gene from New Zealand. I noted that you said about NVDA and the teckie guy and what he said.

 

About 10 years ago a basic version of NVDA went into our library system here. it was rolled out to the rest of the country later on that year. Every year they have updated NVDA to the latest version of NVDA

 

You could not do this with a commercial version of a screen reader. I also told them about windows eyes free offer and they were not even interested. the lady or guy that pit onto the network when we got a award she had a cus who was visually impaired.

 

It covers from the top of New Zealand to pretty much the bottom of New Zealand at about 150 locations and NVDA is on about 750 computers throughout the network. If they are worried they can always lock it down and also stop portable access as well.

In my town here we have computers and i can go up to any one and there is a copy of NVDA on it.

 

The following link will show there is NVDA on there computers at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/accessibility

 

The next link shows the locations where NVDA can be accessed throughout New Zealand at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/statistics

It looks as though the news article goes to another page now so will either find it or remove it the same with magnification.

 

I can also put the person in contact with them and who to talk to as well.

 

My website seems to be going up and down and am wondering weather to stay with them or get another or even a new domain name.

 

Actually i just googled the article so will link it up there. The article can be found at http://www2.nzherald.co.nz/stratford-press/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503390&objectid=10973253

It is the article that went into the local news paper way back then.

I would if you do show him show the links straight to those pages as I know on my page where it is it will not help if the site is going up and down.

if he is worried about security

as i said he can always lock it down but make sure he does not remove the shortcut to start it.

NVDA is also in 2 information centres here in Taranaki and also at a training provider here in town.

When you do look at the nvda user statistics for new zealand you will notice the update feature is turned off so will not show unless people have it on.

 

I will tidy up the page tomorrow that has the info on it so it is up to date.

 

Hope it helps.

 

gene nz

 

Gene nz

On 11/9/2017 6:39 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.
 
 
 
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Sky Mundell
 

Thanks, and I will make sure he has those sources.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 12:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Sky

 

It is Gene from New Zealand. I noted that you said about NVDA and the teckie guy and what he said.

 

About 10 years ago a basic version of NVDA went into our library system here. it was rolled out to the rest of the country later on that year. Every year they have updated NVDA to the latest version of NVDA

 

You could not do this with a commercial version of a screen reader. I also told them about windows eyes free offer and they were not even interested. the lady or guy that pit onto the network when we got a award she had a cus who was visually impaired.

 

It covers from the top of New Zealand to pretty much the bottom of New Zealand at about 150 locations and NVDA is on about 750 computers throughout the network. If they are worried they can always lock it down and also stop portable access as well.

In my town here we have computers and i can go up to any one and there is a copy of NVDA on it.

 

The following link will show there is NVDA on there computers at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/accessibility

 

The next link shows the locations where NVDA can be accessed throughout New Zealand at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/statistics

It looks as though the news article goes to another page now so will either find it or remove it the same with magnification.

 

I can also put the person in contact with them and who to talk to as well.

 

My website seems to be going up and down and am wondering weather to stay with them or get another or even a new domain name.

 

Actually i just googled the article so will link it up there. The article can be found at http://www2.nzherald.co.nz/stratford-press/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503390&objectid=10973253

It is the article that went into the local news paper way back then.

I would if you do show him show the links straight to those pages as I know on my page where it is it will not help if the site is going up and down.

if he is worried about security

as i said he can always lock it down but make sure he does not remove the shortcut to start it.

NVDA is also in 2 information centres here in Taranaki and also at a training provider here in town.

When you do look at the nvda user statistics for new zealand you will notice the update feature is turned off so will not show unless people have it on.

 

I will tidy up the page tomorrow that has the info on it so it is up to date.

 

Hope it helps.

 

gene nz

 

Gene nz

On 11/9/2017 6:39 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.
 
 
 
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Sky


The following link here shows the software on there network at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/software

Note when you go to the page which products may be commercial and which ones are free or open source. It will give you a idea that open source is used and this is on a huge network.


If you put the four links into a email or some where for him to look at then it might open his eyes a bit more.


I can send a email off list with the links etc if you want me 2 and even put him in touch with them.


I think it is more a lack of knowledge from that person and he should be able if he can point out the risk so they can get plugged if any.

Maybe there network is not that secure or he does not know really what he is talking about.


I do agree that there should be access for blind people at places like libraries, information centres etc which are open to the public to use those computers.


Sadly this is not and unless a blind person approaches those networks it may never happen for access.


if done the right way you can see what happened here in New Zealand.


Gene nz



On 11/10/2017 6:11 AM, Sky Mundell wrote:

Thanks, and I will make sure he has those sources.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 12:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi Sky

 

It is Gene from New Zealand. I noted that you said about NVDA and the teckie guy and what he said.

 

About 10 years ago a basic version of NVDA went into our library system here. it was rolled out to the rest of the country later on that year. Every year they have updated NVDA to the latest version of NVDA

 

You could not do this with a commercial version of a screen reader. I also told them about windows eyes free offer and they were not even interested. the lady or guy that pit onto the network when we got a award she had a cus who was visually impaired.

 

It covers from the top of New Zealand to pretty much the bottom of New Zealand at about 150 locations and NVDA is on about 750 computers throughout the network. If they are worried they can always lock it down and also stop portable access as well.

In my town here we have computers and i can go up to any one and there is a copy of NVDA on it.

 

The following link will show there is NVDA on there computers at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.info/faq/accessibility

 

The next link shows the locations where NVDA can be accessed throughout New Zealand at http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/statistics

It looks as though the news article goes to another page now so will either find it or remove it the same with magnification.

 

I can also put the person in contact with them and who to talk to as well.

 

My website seems to be going up and down and am wondering weather to stay with them or get another or even a new domain name.

 

Actually i just googled the article so will link it up there. The article can be found at http://www2.nzherald.co.nz/stratford-press/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503390&objectid=10973253

It is the article that went into the local news paper way back then.

I would if you do show him show the links straight to those pages as I know on my page where it is it will not help if the site is going up and down.

if he is worried about security

as i said he can always lock it down but make sure he does not remove the shortcut to start it.

NVDA is also in 2 information centres here in Taranaki and also at a training provider here in town.

When you do look at the nvda user statistics for new zealand you will notice the update feature is turned off so will not show unless people have it on.

 

I will tidy up the page tomorrow that has the info on it so it is up to date.

 

Hope it helps.

 

gene nz

 

Gene nz

On 11/9/2017 6:39 PM, Sky Mundell wrote:

Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.
 
 
 
 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

I'm a JAWS user, who has just started spending real time with nVDA. The reason I was finally driven to do this was that I wanted a job, and I found there was a lot of opposition against getting JAWS on any smaller company's system/network without knowing the investment was going to be completely worthwhile. And this makes a lot of sense to me, actually, and is not something I can really argue with. Luckily, NVDA turns out to be great and so far there really hasn't been any need to argue about it. I think it's different with governments and very large companies: they invest a lot of money into software and yes, security, and they feel like if they're not paying big bucks for it, it's worthless (this is the impression I often get). The last organisation I worked for still used Mcafee (sp) antivirus, which they paid good money for, but which was very noticeably a much worse product than some of the cheaper or even free alternatives, even though ti has a ton of network features. Anyway, if they already have experience hiring visually impaired people, it's likely they already have a JAWS license or something. But not all of us are going to work for such large organisations. For many of us, we'll be the first blind person ever hired by the company.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: November 9, 2017 1:22 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello Joseph. I totally agree with you about Open Source products being community driven. You are definitely right about Open Sorce and I totally agree with you. I have come across organisations and things for NVDA for sure. When I heard him speak, I was going to ask those questions myself but we were on a schedule because we had other things to cover in the meeting. But I will ask him them next moth for sure!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.





--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


 

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 12:28 am, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.
And that's the time when waving around the ADA like a baseball bat is called for.  I have moved mountains in regard to getting "we can't do that" software installed by invoking reasonable accommodations and ADA compliance.

It is very, very difficult for most academic and commercial settings to justify refusing to install any well-known proprietary or open-source solution for accessibility when the case is made that it is necessary.  If they do refuse, then you get the disabilities coordinator involved in universities and HR involved in businesses.

Just from a pure PR perspective it looks horrible for institutions that refuse reasonable accommodations via technology.

Of course, with the advent of Windows 10 and the ongoing ascendance of Narrator, some places could refuse third party tools (particularly the cost them something) when the functional equivalent is provided with the OS itself.
 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

I agree with what everyone else has said, it would be great to get some more feedback from the library representative on their concerns, and I would be happy to speak with them to discuss those.

Most commonly, concerns are, as others have noted, around misinformed perceptions of "Open Source software".  Assuming they are planning to download the binaries (compiled program) from the NV Access site, then the executable files themselves are inherently no more or less secure than any other piece of software.  Being open source means they are most welcome to peruse the source code and confirm what it contains, whereas with closed source software you have to trust the vendor.

NVDA is regularly run through both online and offline virus and malware scanners and comes back safe.  It only accesses the internet to check for new versions, and only then if you leave that setting checked.  In any case, you can block it from any internet access and it will still work fine, so I'm not sure what else they could expect?

In any case, I'm happy to speak with them to endeavor to allay their concerns.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Quentin Christensen
 

Also note that we can provide support to the library if that is a concern and again, I'd be happy to discuss the most suitable arrangement for them if they are interested in that.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi everyone,

I agree with what everyone else has said, it would be great to get some more feedback from the library representative on their concerns, and I would be happy to speak with them to discuss those.

Most commonly, concerns are, as others have noted, around misinformed perceptions of "Open Source software".  Assuming they are planning to download the binaries (compiled program) from the NV Access site, then the executable files themselves are inherently no more or less secure than any other piece of software.  Being open source means they are most welcome to peruse the source code and confirm what it contains, whereas with closed source software you have to trust the vendor.

NVDA is regularly run through both online and offline virus and malware scanners and comes back safe.  It only accesses the internet to check for new versions, and only then if you leave that setting checked.  In any case, you can block it from any internet access and it will still work fine, so I'm not sure what else they could expect?

In any case, I'm happy to speak with them to endeavor to allay their concerns.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess