Topics

email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

larry k <sir-laurence@...>
 

using windows live mail  any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

Gene
 

I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem.  If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today.  The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message. 
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane.  I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages.  then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

using windows live mail  any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Does it not work in html though, though i have to say, live mail nearly always gave me a headache. Hence my doctored Outlook express in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem. If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today. The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message.
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane. I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages. then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


using windows live mail any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh dear I'm getting replies before the originals in this list again.

I seem to think that I ended up in html display mode and stopping the preview pane in the end It does block dodgy pictures and other bits of code normally.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "larry k" <sir-laurence@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 6:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


using windows live mail any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

Leaving a View Pane open, means that in effect ALL mail messages are being opened, even before you have got the chance to determine if the message comes from a reliable source.


Though it might seem convenient, it has its definite cost. Opening a message from a malicious source, can serve as the very door opener for a virus or other malware. In other words, it is a clear-cut security risk.


I am not telling anyone what to do or not, simply just want to make you aware that you are running heavy risks, in leaving your door open this way. Even if you just scroll down the list of mail messages, they all are being opened as you scroll.



On 11/23/2017 8:13 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem.  If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today.  The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message. 
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane.  I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages.  then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

using windows live mail  any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

The panes can be a little annoying when you, say, tab into them by mistake. They used to slow down access, too; not sure that is really the case anymore. However, Microsoft at least maintains that the pane nowadays in Outlook is quite safe, as they restrict active content such as the kind that might run malicious code from a web page, or a Word macro. I guess it all depends on whether you find it convenient to leave it on. If so, just stick with the latest security updates. I know a lot of sighted people love this and would never consider turning it off. I have never found that they help screen-reader users, but you know, others may have different experience.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David
Sent: November 23, 2017 3:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

 

Leaving a View Pane open, means that in effect ALL mail messages are being opened, even before you have got the chance to determine if the message comes from a reliable source.

 

Though it might seem convenient, it has its definite cost. Opening a message from a malicious source, can serve as the very door opener for a virus or other malware. In other words, it is a clear-cut security risk.

 

I am not telling anyone what to do or not, simply just want to make you aware that you are running heavy risks, in leaving your door open this way. Even if you just scroll down the list of mail messages, they all are being opened as you scroll.

 

 

On 11/23/2017 8:13 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem.  If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today.  The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message. 

If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane.  I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages.  then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: larry k

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM

Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

 

using windows live mail  any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

 

Gene
 

It works in HTML but if the person wants to read mail as plain text, that is the way to do it. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

Does it not work in html though, though i have to say, live mail nearly
always gave me a headache. Hence my doctored Outlook express in windows 7.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body
#msftaccessibility


I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to
work around the problem.  If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll
reply when I have more time later today.  The essence is that you are
reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't
read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the
message.
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once
you can read it in the view pane.  I prefer this method because it is faster
than opening and closing messages.  then, when finished, either tab twice to
get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body
#msftaccessibility


using windows live mail  any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?



Gene
 

I doubt the preview pane blocks anything, but those with more technical knowledge may want to comment.  Default settings in e-mail programs block things like images but that isn't related to the preview pane.  I have never heard that using the preview pane is any safer than opening messages.  My impression is that viewing mail as text is a little safer than usingHTML but that these days, using default settings, there isn't that much difference.  But to stop malicious code from running even if unlikely, I read mail as plain text.  My view is that there is no sense in taking even a small or a very small risk for no benefit.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Gene

Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

Oh dear I'm getting replies before the originals in this list again.

I seem to think that I ended up in html display mode and stopping the
preview pane in the end It does block dodgy pictures and other bits of code
normally.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "larry k" <sir-laurence@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 6:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body
#msftaccessibility


using windows live mail any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?



Gene
 

These days, with e-mail programs blocking lots of content by default, the risks aren't nearly as high as they were years ago.  I'm not sure how much risk there is now, but my impression is that there isn't much.  But even if the risk is small, as I said in an earlier message, I don't believe in taking small risks for no benefit.  also, to make this clear, if you read mail as plain text, there is no risk in using the preview pane.  Nothing can run if you read mail as plain text, either by opening a message or by using the preview pane.  My first comments are about reading mail as HTML.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: David
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

Leaving a View Pane open, means that in effect ALL mail messages are being opened, even before you have got the chance to determine if the message comes from a reliable source.


Though it might seem convenient, it has its definite cost. Opening a message from a malicious source, can serve as the very door opener for a virus or other malware. In other words, it is a clear-cut security risk.


I am not telling anyone what to do or not, simply just want to make you aware that you are running heavy risks, in leaving your door open this way. Even if you just scroll down the list of mail messages, they all are being opened as you scroll.



On 11/23/2017 8:13 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem.  If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today.  The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message. 
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane.  I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages.  then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility

using windows live mail  any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?

 

Well most servers virusscan emails.

Its actually quite hard to send virus infected attachments if they are in fact zips or programs.

So what usually happens is its a fishing link that goes through.

Even then something like noscript and even if you clicked that link the chances of it executing are quite low.

Now there is still a good chance that if you then filled out things on a page if it did in fact load that it would then execute whatever was supposed to happen.

And if you downloaded anything after that it would get recognised.

The issue is that the bad guys know this perfectly well.

So use something that looks ok and it just may get through security.

Ofcause thats not the biggest issue.

In order to protect our data and the net keys and passcodes expire.

Some companies are either lax about getting more new ones or they simply expire and they don't notice.

They can also loose their keys sometimes they get a set and realise that it interfiers with another set so have to get all sets.

Sometimes the bad guys manage to steal a set.

Now days if this happens you just get another set.

But in old windows the loss of a set required microsoft to issue basically chuck all the keys away and issue another database.

Now in theory you shouldn't notice most of this happening.

Ofcause like old ssl2 if you kick the door for long enough it will crumble and eventually you have to change the locks and get a stronger door.

Even the most secure get their entire stocks raded even if they are doing the right things.

Now the down side to all this is that we the users are probably unaware about how often this probably happens it probably happens all the time but only gets bad when it can not be ignored, ie the door is smashed, and the master key is stolen and all your clothes and stuff is robbed and in another country being sold.

Sadly to get a key costs well I am not sure but its a lot so standard users can't get actual keys to use world wide though you aparently can make a personal key its not supposed to be used for anything bar your actual stuff I am unsure about restrictions but still.

Thats why virus programs detect our stuff as unsafe, they look like a virus but there is no key.

Ofcause if a virus has a key then there is a problem and so there are checks in place but sometimes things get through.

Knowing this if you want to get in you don't put a virus or malware or anything just like that, thats dumb and doesn't work.

Standard users unless they know and sometimes even if they do if you word things right will give anything.

Its much easier to get the user to get you in rather than getting in yourself.

Then you make the user do something and not the system.

And you have it.

Thats why we have all that spam and scams going about.

With all this going on, it should have been our doom but the robbers have gotten dumb and complacent.

All fishing emails and scam calls have almost the same pattern maybe a few words change.

They want the user to give information, they want to get in to fix a problem.

They want the user to buy a service.

Once in you can't easily get out till you do x action.

Its probably what is what saves us.

If they all changed their patterns so much we couldn't detect it well we'd have an issue.

Sadly while thats dropped a lot, give a user that is dumb as a post and lets face it, we are not fully loaded machines even though our brains are actually machines in themselves we don't have certifficates and so we just let things through unless we know.

And not everyone knows everything either.

However traditional email and website traffic is safe.

torrents and websites which are not linked to the big companies well.

You need to take some risk and take some measures but its not keep them out its be ready if they come in.

Now be smart and you may only have it happen in small part once or twice and it won't be a real issue.

But you will probably loose big time at least once or twice.

As long as thats not 5 times a week you are probably doing ok.

On 24/11/2017 6:04 p.m., Gene wrote:
These days, with e-mail programs blocking lots of content by default, the risks aren't nearly as high as they were years ago. I'm not sure how much risk there is now, but my impression is that there isn't much. But even if the risk is small, as I said in an earlier message, I don't believe in taking small risks for no benefit. also, to make this clear, if you read mail as plain text, there is no risk in using the preview pane. Nothing can run if you read mail as plain text, either by opening a message or by using the preview pane. My first comments are about reading mail as HTML.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 2:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


Leaving a View Pane open, means that in effect ALL mail messages are being opened, even before you have got the chance to determine if the message comes from a reliable source.




Though it might seem convenient, it has its definite cost. Opening a message from a malicious source, can serve as the very door opener for a virus or other malware. In other words, it is a clear-cut security risk.




I am not telling anyone what to do or not, simply just want to make you aware that you are running heavy risks, in leaving your door open this way. Even if you just scroll down the list of mail messages, they all are being opened as you scroll.





On 11/23/2017 8:13 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem. If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today. The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message.
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane. I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages. then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


using windows live mail any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yess I used to use torrents, but I did have issues with trojans in audio. The scanning of the download normally showed the issue and luckily in most cases the audio was fine thereafter. I'm not talking piracy either here, these were copyright free things. I can only imagine that at least one or more of the machines being used by said torrent was aready infected an nobody had noticed.
Torrents are really a game for the brave these days and the patient. I have a vinyl copy of an album for which no cd or downloadable version was made except a limited release in Japan, where on Ebay etc they want silly money to sell it, but a torrent was free and as I had the orignal albeiit damaged, I did the downonload, It took three months. nuf said.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


Well most servers virusscan emails.

Its actually quite hard to send virus infected attachments if they are in fact zips or programs.

So what usually happens is its a fishing link that goes through.

Even then something like noscript and even if you clicked that link the chances of it executing are quite low.

Now there is still a good chance that if you then filled out things on a page if it did in fact load that it would then execute whatever was supposed to happen.

And if you downloaded anything after that it would get recognised.

The issue is that the bad guys know this perfectly well.

So use something that looks ok and it just may get through security.

Ofcause thats not the biggest issue.

In order to protect our data and the net keys and passcodes expire.

Some companies are either lax about getting more new ones or they simply expire and they don't notice.

They can also loose their keys sometimes they get a set and realise that it interfiers with another set so have to get all sets.

Sometimes the bad guys manage to steal a set.

Now days if this happens you just get another set.

But in old windows the loss of a set required microsoft to issue basically chuck all the keys away and issue another database.

Now in theory you shouldn't notice most of this happening.

Ofcause like old ssl2 if you kick the door for long enough it will crumble and eventually you have to change the locks and get a stronger door.

Even the most secure get their entire stocks raded even if they are doing the right things.

Now the down side to all this is that we the users are probably unaware about how often this probably happens it probably happens all the time but only gets bad when it can not be ignored, ie the door is smashed, and the master key is stolen and all your clothes and stuff is robbed and in another country being sold.

Sadly to get a key costs well I am not sure but its a lot so standard users can't get actual keys to use world wide though you aparently can make a personal key its not supposed to be used for anything bar your actual stuff I am unsure about restrictions but still.

Thats why virus programs detect our stuff as unsafe, they look like a virus but there is no key.

Ofcause if a virus has a key then there is a problem and so there are checks in place but sometimes things get through.

Knowing this if you want to get in you don't put a virus or malware or anything just like that, thats dumb and doesn't work.

Standard users unless they know and sometimes even if they do if you word things right will give anything.

Its much easier to get the user to get you in rather than getting in yourself.

Then you make the user do something and not the system.

And you have it.

Thats why we have all that spam and scams going about.

With all this going on, it should have been our doom but the robbers have gotten dumb and complacent.

All fishing emails and scam calls have almost the same pattern maybe a few words change.

They want the user to give information, they want to get in to fix a problem.

They want the user to buy a service.

Once in you can't easily get out till you do x action.

Its probably what is what saves us.

If they all changed their patterns so much we couldn't detect it well we'd have an issue.

Sadly while thats dropped a lot, give a user that is dumb as a post and lets face it, we are not fully loaded machines even though our brains are actually machines in themselves we don't have certifficates and so we just let things through unless we know.

And not everyone knows everything either.

However traditional email and website traffic is safe.

torrents and websites which are not linked to the big companies well.

You need to take some risk and take some measures but its not keep them out its be ready if they come in.

Now be smart and you may only have it happen in small part once or twice and it won't be a real issue.

But you will probably loose big time at least once or twice.

As long as thats not 5 times a week you are probably doing ok.




On 24/11/2017 6:04 p.m., Gene wrote:
These days, with e-mail programs blocking lots of content by default, the risks aren't nearly as high as they were years ago. I'm not sure how much risk there is now, but my impression is that there isn't much. But even if the risk is small, as I said in an earlier message, I don't believe in taking small risks for no benefit. also, to make this clear, if you read mail as plain text, there is no risk in using the preview pane. Nothing can run if you read mail as plain text, either by opening a message or by using the preview pane. My first comments are about reading mail as HTML.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 2:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


Leaving a View Pane open, means that in effect ALL mail messages are being opened, even before you have got the chance to determine if the message comes from a reliable source.




Though it might seem convenient, it has its definite cost. Opening a message from a malicious source, can serve as the very door opener for a virus or other malware. In other words, it is a clear-cut security risk.




I am not telling anyone what to do or not, simply just want to make you aware that you are running heavy risks, in leaving your door open this way. Even if you just scroll down the list of mail messages, they all are being opened as you scroll.





On 11/23/2017 8:13 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't have time to give a detailed answer now but I'll tell you how to work around the problem. If you have problems or questions, ask and I'll reply when I have more time later today. The essence is that you are reading mail as plaint text and Windows Live Mail, the newer version, won't read mail as plain text when using some screen-readers and opening the message.
If you show the reading pane, move to a message in the list, and tab once you can read it in the view pane. I prefer this method because it is faster than opening and closing messages. then, when finished, either tab twice to get back to the message list or shift tab once to get back to it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: larry k
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] email reads as pain, no text shown in body #msftaccessibility


using windows live mail any ideas? as to how to show text all the time?