Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Colleagues,

 

We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product even though it costs the earth to have it!

 

If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to happen?

 

I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I would like to run over it with you, if you dont mind?

 

It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the Sent Items folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.

 

I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.

 

Heres the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off show in groups whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I find that when I go to the Sent Items folder with groups turned off, I can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50 (more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message 51. If I press end I will drop down to the last message in the Sent Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list until number 50 again when all goes silent.

 

In the attached log. I positioned on the Sent Items folder with Show in groups unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the Arrange By View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  Show in Groups which was unchecked so I press space bar to check it.

 

Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then each of the messages that were not being voiced before.

 

To test this I went back into the arrange By menu and turn off Show in groups and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.

 

You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.', (None,

 

I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message. As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving, I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st message is spoken!

 

 

To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list. Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and they had better use JAWS?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 


Brian's Mail list account
 

Looking through github last night shows a number if problems with Outlook in its various versions and nvda. I think a lot of the problems seem to be that not everyone can duplicate the issues or so it seems. There is probably something common to the people with major problems, no yet identified.

The main one seems to be actual crashing of Outlook which I believe has had a temp patch applied by some screenreader companies, but if I read the messages right it seems that the actual issue is a Microsoft one and nvda have been promised it will be fixed in a near update.
As for message entries not being read sometimes, that seems odd to me, unless there is something wrong with Outlook It almost looks from your error that nvda thinks the objects are simply no longer there.
Myself I gave up on Outlook for other reasons, but I do appreciate that many in business have to use it, and for now the grouping of messages seems to be the only work around for nvda, if you are a person afflicted by it until its better understood.
I imagine that companies like Jaws and dolphin etc have the resources to put some programmers onto such things, getting hardware and software to emulate the situation very quickly whereas nvda has just a few core programmers, limited hardware and users to help with such problems.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 11:35 PM
Subject: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen reader.
I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS and that
is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product even though
it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have to
use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don't mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since I
moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the "Sent
Items" folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here's the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
"show in groups" whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I find
that when I go to the "Sent Items" folder with groups turned off, I can see
only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear the next
message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and most other
folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press down or
up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50 (more or
less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If I
up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where the
voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list and I
break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message 51. If
I press "end" I will drop down to the last message in the Sent Items windows
(about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And repeating up-arrow
voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list until number 50 again
when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the "Sent Items" folder with "Show in
groups" unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the log, I
have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it easier to
find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the "Arrange By" View
menu. I then press up-arrow twice to "Show in Groups" which was unchecked
so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the "arrange By menu and turn off "Show in
groups" and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from its
clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message. As
I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving, I
usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...






 

How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,

 

We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product even though it costs the earth to have it!

 

If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to happen?

 

I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I would like to run over it with you, if you dont mind?

 

It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the Sent Items folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.

 

I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.

 

Heres the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off show in groups whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I find that when I go to the Sent Items folder with groups turned off, I can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50 (more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message 51. If I press end I will drop down to the last message in the Sent Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list until number 50 again when all goes silent.

 

In the attached log. I positioned on the Sent Items folder with Show in groups unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the Arrange By View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  Show in Groups which was unchecked so I press space bar to check it.

 

Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then each of the messages that were not being voiced before.

 

To test this I went back into the arrange By menu and turn off Show in groups and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.

 

You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.', (None,

 

I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message. As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving, I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st message is spoken!

 

 

To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list. Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and they had better use JAWS?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 



Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

How would you suggest we do that

Do you have Virtual box?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin O'Sullivan
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

 

How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different hardware?



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland

 

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,

 

We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product even though it costs the earth to have it!

 

If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to happen?

 

I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I would like to run over it with you, if you dont mind?

 

It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the Sent Items folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.

 

I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.

 

Heres the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off show in groups whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I find that when I go to the Sent Items folder with groups turned off, I can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50 (more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message 51. If I press end I will drop down to the last message in the Sent Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list until number 50 again when all goes silent.

 

In the attached log. I positioned on the Sent Items folder with Show in groups unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the Arrange By View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  Show in Groups which was unchecked so I press space bar to check it.

 

Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then each of the messages that were not being voiced before.

 

To test this I went back into the arrange By menu and turn off Show in groups and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.

 

You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.', (None,

 

I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message. As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving, I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st message is spoken!

 

 

To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list. Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and they had better use JAWS?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 


 

Hi Cearbhall

I have Virtual Box, and it is free to download.  As you have a .ie. domain in your email address, I assume that you are living in Ireland.  My phone number is on my email signature, so perhaps we could meet up, and see if we can replicate the error on a different machine, running the same configuration from a software perspective as your current machine.  If the error is consistent across different hardware, then it would seem safe to say that either three hardware configurations are causing the problem, or the problem is a software configuration problem.  If we don’t get the error across the three configurations then perhaps there is a hardware conflict somewhere.

I have two laptops on which we could try this. , so including your laptop, that will be three hardware configurations.


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

How would you suggest we do that

Do you have Virtual box?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin O'Sullivan
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

 

How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different hardware?



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland

 

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,

 

We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product even though it costs the earth to have it!

 

If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to happen?

 

I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I would like to run over it with you, if you dont mind?

 

It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the Sent Items folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.

 

I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.

 

Heres the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off show in groups whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I find that when I go to the Sent Items folder with groups turned off, I can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50 (more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message 51. If I press end I will drop down to the last message in the Sent Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list until number 50 again when all goes silent.

 

In the attached log. I positioned on the Sent Items folder with Show in groups unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the Arrange By View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  Show in Groups which was unchecked so I press space bar to check it.

 

Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then each of the messages that were not being voiced before.

 

To test this I went back into the arrange By menu and turn off Show in groups and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.

 

You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.', (None,

 

I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message. As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving, I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st message is spoken!

 

 

To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list. Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and they had better use JAWS?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 



Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Thanks for the offer, Martin,

 

As discussed earlier on the phone, please give me a shout when you see an opportunity to try this.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin O'Sullivan
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 4:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

 

Hi Cearbhall

I have Virtual Box, and it is free to download.  As you have a .ie. domain in your email address, I assume that you are living in Ireland.  My phone number is on my email signature, so perhaps we could meet up, and see if we can replicate the error on a different machine, running the same configuration from a software perspective as your current machine.  If the error is consistent across different hardware, then it would seem safe to say that either three hardware configurations are causing the problem, or the problem is a software configuration problem.  If we don’t get the error across the three configurations then perhaps there is a hardware conflict somewhere.

I have two laptops on which we could try this. , so including your laptop, that will be three hardware configurations.



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland

 

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

How would you suggest we do that

Do you have Virtual box?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin O'Sullivan
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

 

How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different hardware?



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland

 

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,

 

We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product even though it costs the earth to have it!

 

If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to happen?

 

I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I would like to run over it with you, if you dont mind?

 

It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the Sent Items folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.

 

I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.

 

Heres the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off show in groups whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I find that when I go to the Sent Items folder with groups turned off, I can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50 (more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message 51. If I press end I will drop down to the last message in the Sent Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list until number 50 again when all goes silent.

 

In the attached log. I positioned on the Sent Items folder with Show in groups unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the Arrange By View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  Show in Groups which was unchecked so I press space bar to check it.

 

Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then each of the messages that were not being voiced before.

 

To test this I went back into the arrange By menu and turn off Show in groups and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.

 

You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.', (None,

 

I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message. As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving, I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st message is spoken!

 

 

To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list. Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and they had better use JAWS?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

 

 


Brian's Mail list account
 

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable. You might find that the hardware is masked if it is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 <083%20332%203487> Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...







 

I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see if I can introduce the issue using virtual box.  I suspect it is either a memory issue, or a graphics card issue.  It may prove inconclusive, however apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of the screen.



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable. You might find that the hardware is masked if it  is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 <083%20332%203487> Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...













Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Martin,

 

I think you may have missed an important point. NVDA is not missing part of the screen. It is reading the screen all around the list. The problem is consistent with NVDA only reading the last 200 items in a list that exceeds 200 messages in length. As only 40 messages at most can be displayed on the screen, there is no way that this problem relates to screen capture! When I remove enough emails from the list so that 200 messages or less are now contained in the list, all the messages are read when moving the up or down arrow on the list. To make sure that the problem is not specific to any individual messages, I deliberately removed messages from the bottom of the list. When, for example, 20 messages were removed from the bottom of a list of 450 messages, the first messages spoken moved up from number 250 to number 230.

 

It is as if NVDA has a frame of maximum 200 list items and positions this frame at the bottom of the list rather than at the beginning.  This holds true even after I reverse the sort order of the messages in the list.

 

I have attached a more precise log file that shows what is happening.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin O'Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

 

I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see if I can introduce the issue using virtual box.  I suspect it is either a memory issue, or a graphics card issue.  It may prove inconclusive, however apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of the screen.

 



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland

 

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable. You might find that the hardware is masked if it  is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to  “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall


m +353 (0)833323487 <083%20332%203487> Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...









 


Brian's Mail list account
 

Unfortunately as previously mentioned you cannot attach files in this list, you can though use a public dropbox link to one.
Unfortunately I do not have 2016 Office so cannot help but it would be interesting to find somebody with windows 7 and the version you are using as well as another windows 10 user. I've just been trying to figure this out though. 200 does not sound like a number that a computer issue would choose, it sounds almost like a number invented by a human. Most numbers in computers revolve around how many bits are used to store the number possibly in hex or binary form.

In my old copy of outlook express for example i could get it to read the whole list of hundreds, though I'd probably go to sleep first.
The work around of course is to make new folders and shove a months worth into dated folders.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Martin,



I think you may have missed an important point. NVDA is not missing part of the screen. It is reading the screen all around the list. The problem is consistent with NVDA only reading the last 200 items in a list that exceeds 200 messages in length. As only 40 messages at most can be displayed on the screen, there is no way that this problem relates to screen capture! When I remove enough emails from the list so that 200 messages or less are now contained in the list, all the messages are read when moving the up or down arrow on the list. To make sure that the problem is not specific to any individual messages, I deliberately removed messages from the bottom of the list. When, for example, 20 messages were removed from the bottom of a list of 450 messages, the first messages spoken moved up from number 250 to number 230.



It is as if NVDA has a frame of maximum 200 list items and positions this frame at the bottom of the list rather than at the beginning. This holds true even after I reverse the sort order of the messages in the list.



I have attached a more precise log file that shows what is happening.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin O'Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see if I can introduce the issue using virtual box. I suspect it is either a memory issue, or a graphics card issue. It may prove inconclusive, however apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of the screen.







--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland





On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...> > wrote:

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable. You might find that the hardware is masked if it is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243 <tel:%2B353878289243>
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@... <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...> > wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall




m +353 (0)833323487 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29833323487> <083%20332%203487> Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 <tel:353%20%280%291-2864623>
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@... <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...>


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Brian,

Here is the essential part of the NVDA log showing two messages being read on the list and then two more up-arrow strokes which are not spoken. I then reverse with down-arrow through the silent message items until the same messages are spoken. Note the line numbers at the end of each spoken message.

Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:05.647):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:14.517):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:14.602):
Speaking [u'To fb-exchange@..., Subject Seeing AI, Sent Sat 02/09/2017 12:16, Size 6 KB, row 265 column 1']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:22.319):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:24.869):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:30.263):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:31.456):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:32.930):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:33.029):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:41.927):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:42.042):
Speaking [u"To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:20, Size 12 KB, row 267 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:47.413):

You can view the full log file at this public link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtzff2gyijq29mg/nvda%20not%20reading%20listed%20messages%20%202017.txt?dl=0

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Unfortunately as previously mentioned you cannot attach files in this list, you can though use a public dropbox link to one.
Unfortunately I do not have 2016 Office so cannot help but it would be interesting to find somebody with windows 7 and the version you are using as well as another windows 10 user. I've just been trying to figure this out though. 200 does not sound like a number that a computer issue would choose, it sounds almost like a number invented by a human. Most numbers in computers revolve around how many bits are used to store the number possibly in hex or binary form.

In my old copy of outlook express for example i could get it to read the whole list of hundreds, though I'd probably go to sleep first.
The work around of course is to make new folders and shove a months worth into dated folders.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Martin,



I think you may have missed an important point. NVDA is not missing part of
the screen. It is reading the screen all around the list. The problem is
consistent with NVDA only reading the last 200 items in a list that exceeds
200 messages in length. As only 40 messages at most can be displayed on the
screen, there is no way that this problem relates to screen capture! When I
remove enough emails from the list so that 200 messages or less are now
contained in the list, all the messages are read when moving the up or down
arrow on the list. To make sure that the problem is not specific to any
individual messages, I deliberately removed messages from the bottom of the
list. When, for example, 20 messages were removed from the bottom of a list
of 450 messages, the first messages spoken moved up from number 250 to
number 230.



It is as if NVDA has a frame of maximum 200 list items and positions this
frame at the bottom of the list rather than at the beginning. This holds
true even after I reverse the sort order of the messages in the list.



I have attached a more precise log file that shows what is happening.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin
O'Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see
if I can introduce the issue using virtual box. I suspect it is either a
memory issue, or a graphics card issue. It may prove inconclusive, however
apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a
shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of
the screen.







--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland





On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...> > wrote:

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable.
You might find that the hardware is masked if it is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...
<mailto:osumartin@...> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243 <tel:%2B353878289243>
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@... <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...> > wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall




m +353 (0)833323487 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29833323487> <083%20332%203487> Ph:
_353 (0)1-2864623 <tel:353%20%280%291-2864623>
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
<mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...>


Brian's Mail list account
 

Hmm, well, I'm assuming here that no matter what the scrolling state of this list is, the same point always stops reading,as I doubt all 200 are on screen together is what I mean. In this case it does look like there is no data coming to nvda about any scrolling or highlighting of a message. If you use nvda/b does this reveal the missing text and can it be gotten to in one of the navigation modes, as to me at least if it can actually be seen by nvda, then the problem seems to be that something is stopping nvda from knowing its actually at the point that you need to read the info. If you go down a couple of lines to the un-announced item, can you then open it and read it or does it open the one it stopped at?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Brian,

Here is the essential part of the NVDA log showing two messages being read on the list and then two more up-arrow strokes which are not spoken. I then reverse with down-arrow through the silent message items until the same messages are spoken. Note the line numbers at the end of each spoken message.

Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:05.647):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:14.517):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:14.602):
Speaking [u'To fb-exchange@..., Subject Seeing AI, Sent Sat 02/09/2017 12:16, Size 6 KB, row 265 column 1']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:22.319):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:24.869):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:30.263):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:31.456):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:32.930):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:33.029):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:41.927):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:42.042):
Speaking [u"To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:20, Size 12 KB, row 267 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:47.413):

You can view the full log file at this public link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtzff2gyijq29mg/nvda%20not%20reading%20listed%20messages%20%202017.txt?dl=0

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Unfortunately as previously mentioned you cannot attach files in this list, you can though use a public dropbox link to one.
Unfortunately I do not have 2016 Office so cannot help but it would be interesting to find somebody with windows 7 and the version you are using as well as another windows 10 user. I've just been trying to figure this out though. 200 does not sound like a number that a computer issue would choose, it sounds almost like a number invented by a human. Most numbers in computers revolve around how many bits are used to store the number possibly in hex or binary form.

In my old copy of outlook express for example i could get it to read the whole list of hundreds, though I'd probably go to sleep first.
The work around of course is to make new folders and shove a months worth into dated folders.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Martin,



I think you may have missed an important point. NVDA is not missing part of
the screen. It is reading the screen all around the list. The problem is
consistent with NVDA only reading the last 200 items in a list that exceeds
200 messages in length. As only 40 messages at most can be displayed on the
screen, there is no way that this problem relates to screen capture! When I
remove enough emails from the list so that 200 messages or less are now
contained in the list, all the messages are read when moving the up or down
arrow on the list. To make sure that the problem is not specific to any
individual messages, I deliberately removed messages from the bottom of the
list. When, for example, 20 messages were removed from the bottom of a list
of 450 messages, the first messages spoken moved up from number 250 to
number 230.



It is as if NVDA has a frame of maximum 200 list items and positions this
frame at the bottom of the list rather than at the beginning. This holds
true even after I reverse the sort order of the messages in the list.



I have attached a more precise log file that shows what is happening.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin
O'Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see
if I can introduce the issue using virtual box. I suspect it is either a
memory issue, or a graphics card issue. It may prove inconclusive, however
apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a
shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of
the screen.







--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland





On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...> > wrote:

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable.
You might find that the hardware is masked if it is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...
<mailto:osumartin@...> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243 <tel:%2B353878289243>
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@... <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...> > wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall




m +353 (0)833323487 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29833323487> <083%20332%203487> Ph:
_353 (0)1-2864623 <tel:353%20%280%291-2864623>
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
<mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...>


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Brian,

Thanks for taking an interest in this topic! You put a few different questions here. I will try to answer them:
1. The threshold is at the nth item not related to a position on the screen. For example, if the 124th item is the last one from the beginning that NVDA does not speak, then the 125th one is spoken. If I am arrowing down the list, this 124th item would be at the bottom of the screen. However, when reading from the spoken items backwards up towards the beginning of the list, the 125th item would be at the top of the screen. An up-arrow to the silent 124th item would keep the 124th item at the top of the screen. So, the position on the screen is not related to the problem.

2. If the item is not spoken, I can press tab once and then when I press shift + tab back onto the silent item, NVDA does speak out its details.

3. Even when the message is silent after pressing the arrow key, it will open when I press the enter key and NVDA will read the body of the message correctly in the usual way. This means that the cursor is still active on the item and all windows controls such as up and down arrows, tabs etc. are functioning. It's just that NVDA is silent on that particular list item details.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Hmm, well, I'm assuming here that no matter what the scrolling state of this list is, the same point always stops reading,as I doubt all 200 are on screen together is what I mean. In this case it does look like there is no data coming to nvda about any scrolling or highlighting of a message. If you use nvda/b does this reveal the missing text and can it be gotten to in one of the navigation modes, as to me at least if it can actually be seen by nvda, then the problem seems to be that something is stopping nvda from knowing its actually at the point that you need to read the info. If you go down a couple of lines to the un-announced item, can you then open it and read it or does it open the one it stopped at?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Brian,

Here is the essential part of the NVDA log showing two messages being read
on the list and then two more up-arrow strokes which are not spoken. I then
reverse with down-arrow through the silent message items until the same
messages are spoken. Note the line numbers at the end of each spoken
message.

Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:05.647):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new
issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column
1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:14.517):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:14.602):
Speaking [u'To fb-exchange@..., Subject Seeing AI, Sent Sat
02/09/2017 12:16, Size 6 KB, row 265 column 1']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:22.319):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:24.869):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:30.263):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:31.456):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:32.930):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:33.029):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new
issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column
1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:41.927):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:42.042):
Speaking [u"To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on
GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:20, Size 12 KB, row 267 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:47.413):

You can view the full log file at this public link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtzff2gyijq29mg/nvda%20not%20reading%20listed%20messages%20%202017.txt?dl=0

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Unfortunately as previously mentioned you cannot attach files in this list,
you can though use a public dropbox link to one.
Unfortunately I do not have 2016 Office so cannot help but it would be
interesting to find somebody with windows 7 and the version you are using as
well as another windows 10 user. I've just been trying to figure this out
though. 200 does not sound like a number that a computer issue would choose,
it sounds almost like a number invented by a human. Most numbers in
computers revolve around how many bits are used to store the number possibly
in hex or binary form.

In my old copy of outlook express for example i could get it to read the
whole list of hundreds, though I'd probably go to sleep first.
The work around of course is to make new folders and shove a months worth
into dated folders.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Martin,



I think you may have missed an important point. NVDA is not missing part of
the screen. It is reading the screen all around the list. The problem is
consistent with NVDA only reading the last 200 items in a list that exceeds
200 messages in length. As only 40 messages at most can be displayed on the
screen, there is no way that this problem relates to screen capture! When I
remove enough emails from the list so that 200 messages or less are now
contained in the list, all the messages are read when moving the up or down
arrow on the list. To make sure that the problem is not specific to any
individual messages, I deliberately removed messages from the bottom of the
list. When, for example, 20 messages were removed from the bottom of a list
of 450 messages, the first messages spoken moved up from number 250 to
number 230.



It is as if NVDA has a frame of maximum 200 list items and positions this
frame at the bottom of the list rather than at the beginning. This holds
true even after I reverse the sort order of the messages in the list.



I have attached a more precise log file that shows what is happening.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin
O'Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see
if I can introduce the issue using virtual box. I suspect it is either a
memory issue, or a graphics card issue. It may prove inconclusive, however
apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a
shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of
the screen.







--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland





On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...> > wrote:

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable.
You might find that the hardware is masked if it is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...
<mailto:osumartin@...> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243 <tel:%2B353878289243>
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@... <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...> > wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall




m +353 (0)833323487 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29833323487> <083%20332%203487> Ph:
_353 (0)1-2864623 <tel:353%20%280%291-2864623>
<(01)%20286%204623> e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
<mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...>


Brian's Mail list account
 

It reminds me of when a program forgets to tell nvda its done something. If as you say moving the focus away and back fixes it, then it could be a problem with Outlook itself or nvda simply not getting the event, but that seems odd as if that was the case why do the 200 work in the first place. When you go to the message and come back and it reads it, is the 200+ moved as well?
In other words is it like a 200 message window on a much larger list but the window is not the screen size obviously, that would be silly.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Brian,

Thanks for taking an interest in this topic! You put a few different questions here. I will try to answer them:
1. The threshold is at the nth item not related to a position on the screen. For example, if the 124th item is the last one from the beginning that NVDA does not speak, then the 125th one is spoken. If I am arrowing down the list, this 124th item would be at the bottom of the screen. However, when reading from the spoken items backwards up towards the beginning of the list, the 125th item would be at the top of the screen. An up-arrow to the silent 124th item would keep the 124th item at the top of the screen. So, the position on the screen is not related to the problem.

2. If the item is not spoken, I can press tab once and then when I press shift + tab back onto the silent item, NVDA does speak out its details.

3. Even when the message is silent after pressing the arrow key, it will open when I press the enter key and NVDA will read the body of the message correctly in the usual way. This means that the cursor is still active on the item and all windows controls such as up and down arrows, tabs etc. are functioning. It's just that NVDA is silent on that particular list item details.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Hmm, well, I'm assuming here that no matter what the scrolling state of this list is, the same point always stops reading,as I doubt all 200 are on screen together is what I mean. In this case it does look like there is no data coming to nvda about any scrolling or highlighting of a message. If you use nvda/b does this reveal the missing text and can it be gotten to in one of the navigation modes, as to me at least if it can actually be seen by nvda, then the problem seems to be that something is stopping nvda from knowing its actually at the point that you need to read the info. If you go down a couple of lines to the un-announced item, can you then open it and read it or does it open the one it stopped at?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Brian,

Here is the essential part of the NVDA log showing two messages being read
on the list and then two more up-arrow strokes which are not spoken. I then
reverse with down-arrow through the silent message items until the same
messages are spoken. Note the line numbers at the end of each spoken
message.

Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:05.647):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new
issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column
1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:14.517):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:14.602):
Speaking [u'To fb-exchange@..., Subject Seeing AI, Sent Sat
02/09/2017 12:16, Size 6 KB, row 265 column 1']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:22.319):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:24.869):
Input: kb(desktop):upArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:30.263):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:31.456):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:32.930):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:33.029):
Speaking [u"Red flag To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new
issue on GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:32, Size 18 KB, row 266 column
1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:41.927):
Input: kb(desktop):downArrow
IO - speech.speak (13:04:42.042):
Speaking [u"To 'Joseph Lee', Subject RE: attaching log file to new issue on
GitHub , Sent Fri 01/09/2017 23:20, Size 12 KB, row 267 column 1"]
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (13:04:47.413):

You can view the full log file at this public link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtzff2gyijq29mg/nvda%20not%20reading%20listed%20messages%20%202017.txt?dl=0

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016

Unfortunately as previously mentioned you cannot attach files in this list,
you can though use a public dropbox link to one.
Unfortunately I do not have 2016 Office so cannot help but it would be
interesting to find somebody with windows 7 and the version you are using as
well as another windows 10 user. I've just been trying to figure this out
though. 200 does not sound like a number that a computer issue would choose,
it sounds almost like a number invented by a human. Most numbers in
computers revolve around how many bits are used to store the number possibly
in hex or binary form.

In my old copy of outlook express for example i could get it to read the
whole list of hundreds, though I'd probably go to sleep first.
The work around of course is to make new folders and shove a months worth
into dated folders.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016


Martin,



I think you may have missed an important point. NVDA is not missing part of
the screen. It is reading the screen all around the list. The problem is
consistent with NVDA only reading the last 200 items in a list that exceeds
200 messages in length. As only 40 messages at most can be displayed on the
screen, there is no way that this problem relates to screen capture! When I
remove enough emails from the list so that 200 messages or less are now
contained in the list, all the messages are read when moving the up or down
arrow on the list. To make sure that the problem is not specific to any
individual messages, I deliberately removed messages from the bottom of the
list. When, for example, 20 messages were removed from the bottom of a list
of 450 messages, the first messages spoken moved up from number 250 to
number 230.



It is as if NVDA has a frame of maximum 200 list items and positions this
frame at the bottom of the list rather than at the beginning. This holds
true even after I reverse the sort order of the messages in the list.



I have attached a more precise log file that shows what is happening.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin
O'Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



I want to try it on a machine which I know doesn't have the issue, and see
if I can introduce the issue using virtual box. I suspect it is either a
memory issue, or a graphics card issue. It may prove inconclusive, however
apart from the loss of time, I can’t see any other downsides to giving it a
shot.

The error is very strange, and it seems like NVDA is just skipping part of
the screen.







--
Martin O'Sullivan
?"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland





On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...> > wrote:

I don't see how that would work as you are introducing yet another variable.
You might find that the hardware is masked if it is on the parent system.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...> , putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...
<mailto:osumartin@...> >
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> >
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Very frustrating error in Outlook 2016



How about using Virtual box, to create a copy of the machine, and running
it on different hardware , to see if there is an issue with it on different
hardware?


--
Martin O'Sullivan
?"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243 <tel:%2B353878289243>
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie <http://www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie>
E-mail osumartin@... <mailto:osumartin@...>
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <
cearbhall.omeadhra@... <mailto:cearbhall.omeadhra@...> > wrote:

Colleagues,



We are all very committed to NVDA and believe totally in the Trojan work
that the development team are doing to provide this wonderful screen
reader. I often find it to perform better than the commercial product JAWS
and that is saying a great deal because JAWS is also an excellent product
even though it costs the earth to have it!



If nobody can help with this problem, I am afraid that I am going to have
to use JAWS rather than NVDA to cope with it. Do you really want that to
happen?



I raised this on GitHub last year. I was met then with stunning silence! I
would like to run over it with you, if you don’t mind?



It normally comes and goes and is not always reproduceable. However, since
I moved to Office 365 online, it has become a permanent feature of the “Sent
Items” folder in Outlook 2016. I am running Windows 10 and NVDA 2017.3.



I have copied the log file and attach it here for your reference.



Here’s the story:

I prefer to display messages in the various folders as a simple list and
Outlook defaults to showing them in groups. So, I have learnt to turn off
“show in groups” whenever I come across it. Since Office 365 online, I
find that when I go to the “Sent Items” folder with groups turned off, I
can see only the message that is under the cursor. I would expect to hear
the next message in the list after pressing down-arrow as in the Inbox and
most other folders. However, here there is silence, even though I press
down or up-arrow many times. If I keep pressing down arrow until message 50
(more or less, it varies!) suddenly, I can hear all the messages listed. If
I up-arrow back up the list, I cross a threshold at the same message where
the voicing began and all is silent again. Down-arrow back down the list
and I break back into voicing the messages at the same threshold of message
51. If I press “end” I will drop down to the last message in the Sent
Items windows (about number 250, for example). I hear it fine. And
repeating up-arrow voices all the prior messages as I reverse up the list
until number 50 again when all goes silent.



In the attached log. I positioned on the “Sent Items” folder with “Show
in groups” unchecked. I then restarted NVDA to freshen the log. In the
log, I have typed in a message bound by three asterisks (***) to make it
easier to find where the error report starts.

Back to my story:

Then, with the refreshed NVDA, I pressed alt+v>a>b for the “Arrange By”
View menu. I then press up-arrow twice to “Show in Groups” which was
unchecked so I press space bar to check it.



Now, when I press up-arrow or down-arrow, I hear the group title and then
each of the messages that were not being voiced before.



To test this I went back into the “arrange By menu and turn off “Show in
groups” and, again, the messages in the top 50 are not being voiced.



You will see the following error line if you look at my attached log:

accRole failed: (-2147417848, 'The object invoked has disconnected from
its clients.', (None,



I carried out some further tests and found that, in fact, the list is only
showing the last 200 messages in the list. When I have 250 messages, the
first 50 messages are silent under NVDA, until I reach the 51st message.
As I frequently have about 420 messages in my sent Items before archiving,
I usually find that the 220th message is silent and then suddenly the 221st
message is spoken!





To relieve my frustration, I loaded JAWS 2016 which does not have any
problem reading each message from top to bottom in the Sent Items list.
Should I have to admit to all my NVDA critics that NVDA cannot do it and
they had better use JAWS?



All the best,



Cearbhall




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