OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


 

Its a pitty that ms store in nz online only sells its products and nothing else.

On 19/12/2017 5:37 a.m., Kevin Chao wrote:
Microsoft Store has promos and great service, where they'll go into BIOS
and audio settings. They'll ensure it works well with screen reader. I've
had this experience a few times in the past with the Microsoft Store in San
Francisco and Palo Alto.


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I'm talking about small shops where you don't perhaps get the discounts
but they can be very helpful if you get a problem.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <
antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
before


I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours,
most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
Brian
--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself
using
the telephone before the toilet.

Please reply to the
list;
please *don't* CC
me.





 

Yeah its the same with other drivers, I always end up removing unneded programs, and updating drivers, sound and display are never the latest mainly the rest I get from their website but my plan is either hp which seem to be fine or gigabyte because of their massive memmory they do use soundblaster effects which I am familiar with.

On 18/12/2017 11:46 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes, Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time.
I know a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" <kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


This thread has been very relevant for me recently, as I was looking for a
good business-grade Windows laptop. I tried the LeNovo ThinkPad via Amazon,
but sent it back, and picked-up Dell XPS 9360 from Microsoft Store
yesterday.

The 2 issues that I experienced are with the Realtek audio and media keys.
Fortunately, it was possible to sort the former by turning off the sound
effects/enhancements and have latter solved via BIOS set to use standard
function keys.

I was unpleasantly surprised that these were issues on a vanilla Windows
machine from Microsoft, but glad that it’s possible to set these normally.

This is my second XPS I had, first was in 2009, now again in 2017—very well
built, great keyboard, light, fast.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io <
the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I use one and have no problems,   I can't think of any tips it just
works.   it is the pro4 I hear there on surface Pro5 now.

On 07/12/2017 01:45, Don H wrote:

Any positive or negative comments concerning NVDA on a Microsoft Surface
Pro along with its available keyboard?







.


Kevin Chao
 

Microsoft Store has promos  and great service, where they'll go into BIOS and audio settings. They'll ensure it works well with screen reader. I've had this experience a few times in the past with the Microsoft Store in San Francisco and Palo Alto. 


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I'm talking about small shops where you don't perhaps get the discounts but they can be very helpful if you get a problem.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@....it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
 Brian

--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.









Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'm talking about small shops where you don't perhaps get the discounts but they can be very helpful if you get a problem.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
Brian
--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Antony Stone
 

I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
Brian
--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes, Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time.
I know a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Chao" <kevinchao89@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


This thread has been very relevant for me recently, as I was looking for a
good business-grade Windows laptop. I tried the LeNovo ThinkPad via Amazon,
but sent it back, and picked-up Dell XPS 9360 from Microsoft Store
yesterday.

The 2 issues that I experienced are with the Realtek audio and media keys.
Fortunately, it was possible to sort the former by turning off the sound
effects/enhancements and have latter solved via BIOS set to use standard
function keys.

I was unpleasantly surprised that these were issues on a vanilla Windows
machine from Microsoft, but glad that it’s possible to set these normally.

This is my second XPS I had, first was in 2009, now again in 2017—very well
built, great keyboard, light, fast.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io <
the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I use one and have no problems, I can't think of any tips it just
works. it is the pro4 I hear there on surface Pro5 now.

On 07/12/2017 01:45, Don H wrote:

Any positive or negative comments concerning NVDA on a Microsoft Surface
Pro along with its available keyboard?






Kevin Chao
 

This thread has been very relevant for me recently, as I was looking for a good business-grade Windows laptop. I tried the LeNovo ThinkPad via Amazon, but sent it back, and picked-up Dell XPS 9360 from Microsoft Store yesterday.

The 2 issues that I experienced are with the Realtek audio and media keys. Fortunately, it was possible to sort the former by turning off the sound effects/enhancements and have latter solved via BIOS set to use standard function keys.

I was unpleasantly surprised that these were issues on a vanilla Windows machine from Microsoft, but glad that it’s possible to set these normally.

This is my second XPS I had, first was in 2009, now again in 2017—very well built, great keyboard, light, fast. 


On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io <the.big.white.shepherd@...> wrote:
I use one and have no problems,   I can't think of any tips it just works.   it is the pro4 I hear there on surface Pro5 now.

On 07/12/2017 01:45, Don H wrote:
Any positive or negative comments concerning NVDA on a Microsoft Surface Pro along with its available keyboard?









Kevin Cussick
 

I use one and have no problems, I can't think of any tips it just works. it is the pro4 I hear there on surface Pro5 now.

On 07/12/2017 01:45, Don H wrote:
Any positive or negative comments concerning NVDA on a Microsoft Surface Pro along with its available keyboard?


Hareth
 

Don, you talking like like about 8 years ago ssds price wise,
here is one of the best 250G SSD for sale out there for US $89 on amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E250B-AM/dp/B00OAJ412U
I got my 256G ssd 5 years back for US $200, It worth every penny, and
it still working like IVE got it just now.


Antony Stone
 

A "thumb drive" is *way* slower than a spinning hard disk.

An SSD is way faster.

Antony.

On Thursday 07 December 2017 at 00:23:30, Don H wrote:

Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30
bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.
--
There's a good theatrical performance about puns on in the West End. It's a
play on words.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

My ssd claims in hardware to be scssi or something siimilatr to that, but still looks like a normal drive.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30 bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.



Don H
 

Any positive or negative comments concerning NVDA on a Microsoft Surface Pro along with its available keyboard?


Rui Fontes
 

Yah, it is the only thing to know if it is working or not!


Rui



Às 01:24 de 07/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

Well another thing you can do is get a light probe aparently this works and can tell if something is active or not but I have never needed to use one but still I have heard it be done.




On 7/12/2017 12:17 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi!
With my SSD computer with no fan, If I have no speech, and I think it should be running, I do the following.
I press CTRL+Windows+enter to see if Narrator comes on.
If it does not, than I check to see if my computer is muted by pressing the correct function key. If I still get no speech, then I press Windows + D that puts you on the desktop. Then, I press Alt+F4 to bring up the power menu. I arrow to the last choice, which is restart. I press enter and wait just a minute. If still no action, then I hold down the power button for a few seconds, which is a very last resort. Then, I just tap the power button to turn the computer back on.
In two years, I have only had to do all of that twice.
Usually, one screen reader will freeze up, and you can turn on Narrator. When you do that, the other screen reader will start working. Narrator is such a big help, because it will start with CTRL+Windows+Enter when other screen readers like NVDA or JAWS will not start for some reason.
You just have to go by your screen reader if it responds or not, most of the time, to see if it is running or not. I love the SSD drive. I get so impatient when I go back to my laptop using a regular Hard drive, because it is so slow compared to having the SSD drive!
Take care, guys!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

No. You do'thear it but if you detect anythig odd you just now it might be the drive. You can also do a scan o the disk as well. My ssd has ben going for 3 years on my mac and it's still pretty good. A bit slower but still pretty good.

On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:59 PM, tina sohl <tinabir@...> wrote:

How do you know when a pc with and ssd drive is running? If you can't see it, is there still something you can hear? Both our pcs still have regular drives so we're curious.
Original message:
Once you go SSD you don't want to ever go back. You can if needed but
you really don't want to techy or no techy. I might hate the size of
the SSD on my Mac book pro but I love   that it has one. My windows
10 custom built Machine flies because of this SSD and the fact it does
have a pretty nice processor.
On 12/4/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3
seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe
me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life
with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced,
not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement.
So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an
ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go
back to a normal harddrive.

On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a
mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical
drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I
open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the
program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the
document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty
minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight
seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs
opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lenron <mailto:lenron93@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just
facts.
On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...
<mailto:enes.saribas@...>> wrote:
hi,
I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get
an ssd.

On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
computers, cars, or anywhere else.
There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
or  important.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
information
about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
was to get
all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
(fragmented)
across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
larger
ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
together in
one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
spread
around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
and find
all the different parts).
With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
nothing
needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
efficient
to read than complete ones.

Antony.
On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
Hello,
Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
these in
that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
nothing
further can be writtten into it.
I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
is a
large capacity, it may never be an issue.
I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
consequences of this.
I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
fragment
a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
writable if
it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
drive.
Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
Best Regards, Jim.
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than
before
Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
that
should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 =
intel i3,
ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
computer. If
you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up,
go for
something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again.
Even a
cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks
off of
that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
solid
state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can
get
by
with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even
with
headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
with
them in the store using narrator.
--
"In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
realise that
the job was already taken."
  - Douglas Adams
                                                    Please reply to the
list;
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*don't* CC me.







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Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762







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Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762















 

Well another thing you can do is get a light probe aparently this works and can tell if something is active or not but I have never needed to use one but still I have heard it be done.

On 7/12/2017 12:17 p.m., David Moore wrote:
Hi!
With my SSD computer with no fan, If I have no speech, and I think it should be running, I do the following.
I press CTRL+Windows+enter to see if Narrator comes on.
If it does not, than I check to see if my computer is muted by pressing the correct function key. If I still get no speech, then I press Windows + D that puts you on the desktop. Then, I press Alt+F4 to bring up the power menu. I arrow to the last choice, which is restart. I press enter and wait just a minute. If still no action, then I hold down the power button for a few seconds, which is a very last resort. Then, I just tap the power button to turn the computer back on.
In two years, I have only had to do all of that twice.
Usually, one screen reader will freeze up, and you can turn on Narrator. When you do that, the other screen reader will start working. Narrator is such a big help, because it will start with CTRL+Windows+Enter when other screen readers like NVDA or JAWS will not start for some reason.
You just have to go by your screen reader if it responds or not, most of the time, to see if it is running or not. I love the SSD drive. I get so impatient when I go back to my laptop using a regular Hard drive, because it is so slow compared to having the SSD drive!
Take care, guys!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

No. You do'thear it but if you detect anythig odd you just now it might be the drive. You can also do a scan o the disk as well. My ssd has ben going for 3 years on my mac and it's still pretty good. A bit slower but still pretty good.

On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:59 PM, tina sohl <tinabir@samobile.net> wrote:

How do you know when a pc with and ssd drive is running? If you can't see it, is there still something you can hear? Both our pcs still have regular drives so we're curious.
Original message:
Once you go SSD you don't want to ever go back. You can if needed but
you really don't want to techy or no techy. I might hate the size of
the SSD on my Mac book pro but I love that it has one. My windows
10 custom built Machine flies because of this SSD and the fact it does
have a pretty nice processor.
On 12/4/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:
well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3
seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe
me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life
with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced,
not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement.
So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an
ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go
back to a normal harddrive.
On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a
mechanical drive. let's say it takes one second using a mechanical
drive. How have I saved any amount of time that means anything? If I
open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the
program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the
document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty
minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight
seconds a meaningful amount of time? I can leave one or two programs
opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lenron <mailto:lenron93@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just
facts.
On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com
<mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>> wrote:
hi,
I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get
an ssd.
On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
far too prescriptive and overgeneral. If you do things where speed
matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
while at the moment, then it would make sense. but if you mainly do
things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
don't consider it important. there are some people who just want
everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly. If
they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
computers, cars, or anywhere else.
There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
others may wish to comment. If you have a laptop, and are going to
use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
or important.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
information
about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
was to get
all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
(fragmented)
across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
larger
ones are written into the gaps afterwards. Having the entire file
together in
one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
spread
around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
and find
all the different parts).
With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
nothing
needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
efficient
to read than complete ones.
Antony.
On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
Hello,
Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
these in
that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
nothing
further can be writtten into it.
I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
is a
large capacity, it may never be an issue.
I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
consequences of this.
I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
fragment
a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
writable if
it is done regularly and is not really necessary on this sort of
drive.
Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
Best Regards, Jim.
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than
before
Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
that
should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 =
intel i3,
ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
computer. If
you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up,
go for
something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again.
Even a
cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks
off of
that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
solid
state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can
get
by
with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even
with
headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
with
them in the store using narrator.
--
"In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
realise that
the job was already taken."
- Douglas Adams
Please reply to the
list;
please
*don't* CC me.






--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762






--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Lenron
 

um what you can get a pretty nice 250 gb SSD for 80 bucks.

On 12/6/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes LOL!
It is because SSD drives are pretty complicated when it comes to installing
software on the drive. Thumb drives, are just so much less complicated,
because you are not installing the OS on them.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
before

Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30
bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.





--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


David Moore
 

Yes LOL!

It is because SSD drives are pretty complicated when it comes to installing software on the drive. Thumb drives, are just so much less complicated, because you are not installing the OS on them.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30

bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.

 

 

 

 


Don H
 

Never understood that you can buy a 128 Gig thumb drive for less than 30 bucks yet a 128 Gig SSD cost several hundred bucks.


David Moore
 

Wow, it sure is!

If you begin to fill that, you can back stuff onto another external drive, for example.

I would give anything to have a SSD 1 TB drive. Wow, that would be wild LOL!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

I have one pc with a Tb ssd drive is this big enough/

 

On 04/12/2017 11:59, Clare Page wrote:

> Hi!

>

> As someone who is not a techy and has never yet used an SSD drive, I can

> think of one drawback of those drives, namely their smaller capacity.

> It’s all very well to say that we could keep big files, such as anything

> audio, on an external drive, but, if we don’t want to keep that drive

> connected to the computer for whatever reason, we don’t have immediate

> access to those big files. That’s one reason why an SSD drive is less

> tempting for me when I get another computer, especially as, the more

> capacity you want on an SSD drive, the more expensive that will be.

>

> I would also guess that having lots of RAM could make a new computer

> more expensive; I have never had a computer with more than 4 GB of RAM,

> but that much has served me well over the past few years. It’s true that

> things are changing in the computer world, so it’s possible that newer

> programs might need more power, but I’m not convinced that we need huge

> amounts of RAM yet.

>

> As I write this, it’s hard to predict how difficult choosing my next

> computer will be, but ideally I want something with a reasonable but not

> excessive amount of RAM, and a not-too-small capacity of memory for

> storing my files so that I do not always have to use an external drive

> except for backup purposes.

>

> Bye for now!

>

>  From Clare

>

> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Gene

> *Sent:* lundi 4 décembre 2017 08:53

> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than

> before

>

> I would say that it may be beneficial in a lot of ways but I suspect

> that it has drawbacks that most perhaps almost all people never think

> about.  I really like computers, where I can issue commands and have all

> sorts of things happen.  But it's an artificially easy world and an

> artificially fast gratification environment.  I suspect that that is one

> reason we see more impatients and bad temper.  I haven't thought much

> about this.  It's common to read the common complaints about computers

> but having so great a contrast between the world and the computer world

> may have undesirable effects people generally don't think about.

>

> Gene

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> *From:*enes sarıbaş <mailto:enes.saribas@...>

>

> *Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 1:42 AM

>

> *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>

> *Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than

> before

>

> still, I would argue that having a fast computer is benefitial on all

> fronts.

>

> On 12/4/2017 10:06 AM, Gene wrote:

>

>     I might argue that having slower devices might actually allow people

>     to think more about things they read.  I have a slow old computer

>     and I suspect that the amount of extra time it takes me to open

>     another article or web page after reading something on my current

>     page, may allow me to think a bit more and perhaps retain a bit more

>     because of thought.  Speed can't be assumed to always be

>     beneficial.  I have faster computers but for various reasons I won't

>     go into here, I use the slow one most of the time.  It's annoying if

>     I'm doing something taxing but I suspect I also benefit from the

>     more leisurely pace at which some things occur.  Lack of reflection

>     is one of the most common complaints social commentators have about

>     current times.

>

>     And people may be so used to the fast pace at which they do things

>     that they may not even be aware of how it is adversely affecting

>     them in various ways.

>

>     Gene

>

>     ----- Original Message -----

>

>     Gene

>

>     ----- Original Message -----

>

>     *From:*Andy <mailto:wq6r@...>

>

>     *Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 12:57 AM

>

>     *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>

>     *Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult

>     than before

>

>     It's interesting that we have all of these time saving devices at

>     our disposal, but we always seem to complain that we don't have

>     enough time.

>

>     Andy

>

>         ----- Original Message -----

>

>         *From:*enes sarıbaş <mailto:enes.saribas@...>

>

>         *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>

>         *Sent:*Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:49 PM

>

>         *Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more

>         difficult than before

>

>         well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time

>         save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is

>         alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably

>         saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like

>         an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks

>         only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene,

>         is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5

>         minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a

>         normal harddrive.

>

>         On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

>

>             I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an

>             SSD drive.

>

>             Gene

>

>             ----- Original Message -----

>

>             *From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

>

>             *Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM

>

>             *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>

>             *Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more

>             difficult than before

>

>             Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using

>             a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a

>             mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that

>             means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I

>             spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in

>             actual loading time after I find the document and press

>             enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes

>             working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight

>             seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two

>             programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.

>

>             Gene

>

>             ----- Original Message -----

>

>             *From:*Lenron <mailto:lenron93@...>

>

>             *Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM

>

>             *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>

>             *Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more

>             difficult than before

>

>             Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This

>             is just facts.

>

>             On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...

>             <mailto:enes.saribas@...>> wrote:

>              > hi,

>              >

>              > I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd

>             is so massive

>              > that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an

>             ssd can be a

>              > massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it

>             should get an ssd.

>              >

>              >

>              > On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:

>              >> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows

>             won't even let

>              >> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.

>              >> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider

>             sweeping

>              >> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD

>             drives to be

>              >> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things

>             where speed

>              >> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of

>             large files,

>              >> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the

>             recording to

>              >> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I

>             haven't though of

>              >> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if

>             you mainly do

>              >> things like word processing, web browsing, and other

>             typical uses, I

>              >> don't consider it important.  there are some people who

>             just want

>              >> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to

>             take one or

>              >> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost

>             instantly.  If

>              >> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and

>              >> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs

>             hotrods, whetgher in

>              >> computers, cars, or anywhere else.

>              >> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might

>             be important,

>              >> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and

>             are going to

>              >> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and

>             jolted somewhat

>              >> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over

>             rather rough

>              >> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be

>             a good idea

>              >> or  important.

>              >> Gene

>              >> ----- Original Message -----

>              >> *From:* Antony Stone

>             <mailto:antony.stone@...>

>              >> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM

>              >> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>             <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>              >> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more

>             difficult

>              >> than before

>              >>

>              >> I would be very interested if you could post some links

>             to the

>              >> information

>              >> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.

>              >>

>              >> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no

>             point.

>              >>

>              >> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional

>             spinning hard disk

>              >> was to get

>              >> all the parts of a single file together, instead of

>             being spread

>              >> (fragmented)

>              >> across the drive, which happens when small files are

>             deleted and then

>              >> larger

>              >> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the

>             entire file

>              >> together in

>              >> one place is much more efficient for reading it later

>             than having it

>              >> spread

>              >> around the disk (because it takes time for the

>             mechanical heads to go

>              >> and find

>              >> all the different parts).

>              >>

>              >> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as

>             any other -

>              >> nothing

>              >> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented

>             files are no less

>              >> efficient

>              >> to read than complete ones.

>              >>

>              >>

>              >> Antony.

>              >>

>              >> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:

>              >>

>              >> > Hello,

>              >> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight

>             issue with

>              >> these in

>              >> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still

>             be read, but

>              >> nothing

>              >> > further can be writtten into it.

>              >> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen

>             and, if the drive

>              >> is a

>              >> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.

>              >> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully

>             understand the

>              >> > consequences of this.

>              >> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a

>             good idea to de

>              >> fragment

>              >> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some

>             memory un

>              >> writable if

>              >> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on

>             this sort of

>              >> > drive.

>              >> >

>              >> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in

>             flames,[smile]..

>              >> >

>              >> > Best Regards, Jim.

>              >> >

>              >> > From: Tyler Wood

>              >> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM

>              >> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>             <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>              >> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more

>             difficult than

>              >> > before

>              >> >

>              >> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile

>             processors, so

>              >> that

>              >> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be

>             Ryzen 3 = intel i3,

>              >> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.

>              >> >

>              >> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the

>             speed of a

>              >> computer. If

>              >> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to

>             save up, go for

>              >> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go

>             back again. Even a

>              >> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat

>             the socks off of

>              >> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in

>             booting up, general

>              >> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much

>             but even so the

>              >> solid

>              >> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is

>             why you can get

>              >> > by

>              >> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.

>              >> >

>              >> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days,

>             too. And even with

>              >> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so

>             try and play

>              >> > with

>              >> > them in the store using narrator.

>              >>

>              >> --

>              >> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some

>             time to

>              >> realise that

>              >> the job was already taken."

>              >>

>              >>  - Douglas Adams

>              >>

>              >>                                                  

>             Please reply to the

>              >> list;

>              >>                                                        

>             please

>              >> *don't* CC me.

>              >>

>              >>

>              >>

>              >>

>              >

>              >

>

>

>             --

>             Lenron Brown

>             Cell: 985-271-2832

>             Skype: ron.brown762

>

>

>

 

 

 


David Moore
 

Hi!

With my SSD computer with no fan, If I have no speech, and I think it should be running, I do the following.
I press CTRL+Windows+enter to see if Narrator comes on.

If it does not, than I check to see if my computer is muted by pressing the correct function key. If I still get no speech, then I press Windows + D that puts you on the desktop. Then, I press Alt+F4 to bring up the power menu. I arrow to the last choice, which is restart. I press enter and wait just a minute. If still no action, then I hold down the power button for a few seconds, which is a very last resort. Then, I just tap the power button to turn the computer back on.

In two years, I have only had to do all of that twice.

Usually, one screen reader will freeze up, and you can turn on Narrator. When you do that, the other screen reader will start working. Narrator is such a big help, because it will start with CTRL+Windows+Enter when other screen readers like NVDA or JAWS will not start for some reason.

You just have to go by your screen reader if it responds or not, most of the time, to see if it is running or not. I love the SSD drive. I get so impatient when I go back to my laptop using a regular Hard drive, because it is so slow compared to having the SSD drive!

Take care, guys!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

No. You do'thear it but if you detect anythig odd you just now it might be the drive. You can also do a scan o the disk as well. My ssd has ben going for 3 years on my mac and it's still pretty good. A bit slower but still pretty good.

 

> On Dec 5, 2017, at 1:59 PM, tina sohl <tinabir@...> wrote:

>

> How do you know when a pc with and ssd drive is running? If you can't see it, is there still something you can hear? Both our pcs still have regular drives so we're curious.

> Original message:

>> Once you go SSD you don't want to ever go back. You can if needed but

>> you really don't want to techy or no techy. I might hate the size of

>> the SSD on my Mac book pro but I love   that it has one. My windows

>> 10 custom built Machine flies because of this SSD and the fact it does

>> have a pretty nice processor.

>

>> On 12/4/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:

>>> well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3

>>> seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe

>>> me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life

>>> with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced,

>>> not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement.

>>> So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an

>>> ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go

>>> back to a normal harddrive.

>

>

>>> On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:

>>>> I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive.

>>>> Gene

>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>

>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM

>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult

>>>> than before

>

>>>> Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a

>>>> mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical

>>>> drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I

>>>> open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the

>>>> program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the

>>>> document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty

>>>> minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight

>>>> seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs

>>>> opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.

>>>> Gene

>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>> *From:* Lenron <mailto:lenron93@...>

>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM

>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult

>>>> than before

>

>>>> Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just

>>>> facts.

>

>>>> On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...

>>>> <mailto:enes.saribas@...>> wrote:

>>>>> hi,

>

>>>>> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive

>>>>> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a

>>>>> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get

>>>> an ssd.

>

>

>>>>> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:

>>>>>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let

>>>>>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.

>>>>>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping

>>>>>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be

>>>>>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed

>>>>>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,

>>>>>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to

>>>>>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of

>>>>>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do

>>>>>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I

>>>>>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want

>>>>>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or

>>>>>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If

>>>>>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and

>>>>>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in

>>>>>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.

>>>>>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,

>>>>>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to

>>>>>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat

>>>>>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough

>>>>>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea

>>>>>> or  important.

>>>>>> Gene

>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM

>>>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult

>>>>>> than before

>

>>>>>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the

>>>>>> information

>>>>>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.

>

>>>>>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.

>

>>>>>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk

>>>>>> was to get

>>>>>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread

>>>>>> (fragmented)

>>>>>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then

>>>>>> larger

>>>>>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file

>>>>>> together in

>>>>>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it

>>>>>> spread

>>>>>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go

>>>>>> and find

>>>>>> all the different parts).

>

>>>>>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -

>>>>>> nothing

>>>>>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less

>>>>>> efficient

>>>>>> to read than complete ones.

>

>

>>>>>> Antony.

>

>>>>>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:

>

>>>>>>> Hello,

>>>>>>> Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with

>>>>>> these in

>>>>>>> that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but

>>>>>> nothing

>>>>>>> further can be writtten into it.

>>>>>>> I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive

>>>>>> is a

>>>>>>> large capacity, it may never be an issue.

>>>>>>> I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the

>>>>>>> consequences of this.

>>>>>>> I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de

>>>>>> fragment

>>>>>>> a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un

>>>>>> writable if

>>>>>>> it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of

>>>>>>> drive.

>

>>>>>>> Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..

>

>>>>>>> Best Regards, Jim.

>

>>>>>>> From: Tyler Wood

>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM

>>>>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult

>>>>>>> than

>>>>>>> before

>

>>>>>>> Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so

>>>>>> that

>>>>>>> should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 =

>>>> intel i3,

>>>>>>> ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.

>

>>>>>>> In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a

>>>>>> computer. If

>>>>>>> you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up,

>>>> go for

>>>>>>> something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again.

>>>> Even a

>>>>>>> cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks

>>>> off of

>>>>>>> that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general

>>>>>>> snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the

>>>>>> solid

>>>>>>> state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can

>>>>>>> get

>>>>>>> by

>>>>>>> with a core i3 or equal from AMD.

>

>>>>>>> Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even

>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>> headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play

>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>> them in the store using narrator.

>

>>>>>> --

>>>>>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to

>>>>>> realise that

>>>>>> the job was already taken."

>

>>>>>>  - Douglas Adams

>

>>>>>>                                                    Please reply to the

>>>>>> list;

>>>>>> please

>>>>>> *don't* CC me.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>>> --

>>>> Lenron Brown

>>>> Cell: 985-271-2832

>>>> Skype: ron.brown762

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>> --

>> Lenron Brown

>> Cell: 985-271-2832

>> Skype: ron.brown762

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 


Kevin Cussick
 

I have one pc with a Tb ssd drive is this big enough/

On 04/12/2017 11:59, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!
As someone who is not a techy and has never yet used an SSD drive, I can think of one drawback of those drives, namely their smaller capacity. It’s all very well to say that we could keep big files, such as anything audio, on an external drive, but, if we don’t want to keep that drive connected to the computer for whatever reason, we don’t have immediate access to those big files. That’s one reason why an SSD drive is less tempting for me when I get another computer, especially as, the more capacity you want on an SSD drive, the more expensive that will be.
I would also guess that having lots of RAM could make a new computer more expensive; I have never had a computer with more than 4 GB of RAM, but that much has served me well over the past few years. It’s true that things are changing in the computer world, so it’s possible that newer programs might need more power, but I’m not convinced that we need huge amounts of RAM yet.
As I write this, it’s hard to predict how difficult choosing my next computer will be, but ideally I want something with a reasonable but not excessive amount of RAM, and a not-too-small capacity of memory for storing my files so that I do not always have to use an external drive except for backup purposes.
Bye for now!
From Clare
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* lundi 4 décembre 2017 08:53
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before
I would say that it may be beneficial in a lot of ways but I suspect that it has drawbacks that most perhaps almost all people never think about.  I really like computers, where I can issue commands and have all sorts of things happen.  But it's an artificially easy world and an artificially fast gratification environment.  I suspect that that is one reason we see more impatients and bad temper.  I haven't thought much about this.  It's common to read the common complaints about computers but having so great a contrast between the world and the computer world may have undesirable effects people generally don't think about.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*enes sarıbaş <mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>
*Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 1:42 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before
still, I would argue that having a fast computer is benefitial on all fronts.
On 12/4/2017 10:06 AM, Gene wrote:
I might argue that having slower devices might actually allow people
to think more about things they read.  I have a slow old computer
and I suspect that the amount of extra time it takes me to open
another article or web page after reading something on my current
page, may allow me to think a bit more and perhaps retain a bit more
because of thought.  Speed can't be assumed to always be
beneficial.  I have faster computers but for various reasons I won't
go into here, I use the slow one most of the time.  It's annoying if
I'm doing something taxing but I suspect I also benefit from the
more leisurely pace at which some things occur.  Lack of reflection
is one of the most common complaints social commentators have about
current times.
And people may be so used to the fast pace at which they do things
that they may not even be aware of how it is adversely affecting
them in various ways.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Andy <mailto:wq6r@socal.rr.com>
*Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 12:57 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before
It's interesting that we have all of these time saving devices at
our disposal, but we always seem to complain that we don't have
enough time.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
*From:*enes sarıbaş <mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Sent:*Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:49 PM
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more
difficult than before
well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time
save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is
alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably
saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like
an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks
only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene,
is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5
minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a
normal harddrive.
On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an
SSD drive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more
difficult than before
Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using
a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a
mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that
means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I
spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in
actual loading time after I find the document and press
enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes
working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight
seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two
programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Lenron <mailto:lenron93@gmail.com>
*Sent:*Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more
difficult than before
Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This
is just facts.
On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com
<mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd
is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an
ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it
should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows
won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider
sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD
drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things
where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of
large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the
recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I
haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if
you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other
typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who
just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to
take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost
instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs
hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might
be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and
are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and
jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over
rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be
a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone
<mailto:antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more
difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links
to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no
point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional
spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of
being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are
deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the
entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later
than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the
mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as
any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented
files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight
issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still
be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen
and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully
understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a
good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some
memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on
this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in
flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more
difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile
processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be
Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the
speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to
save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go
back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat
the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in
booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much
but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is
why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days,
too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so
try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some
time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>
Please reply to the
>> list;
>>
please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762