Date
1 - 8 of 8
Too Much Serendipity. I'm Obviously Missing Something.
|
Martin McCormick
I am using software in which most or all the regular
Windows keyboard shortcuts don't work so you have to use the object navigator. It's nvda + numpad / followed by numpad / which is a left-click and you're at the top of a Tree View. Arrow down and there's the tree name which you open and there are, in this case, eleven items that one visits as needed to throw virtual switches or enter data. When things work, one double-left-clicks on a heading such as General Settings and it opens to reveal several configurable parameters so one does one's thing in there and then presses the left-click to be outside of the heading, ready to go to another heading or folder to open it and do things. When it is cyber fun house day, the system is totally dyslexic. I can check the navigator with nvda + nunpad-5 and the caret with nvda + Tab and they show the same field I am sitting on with the arrows so I double-left-click and poof! I am at some other randomly-selected part of the tree. It's actually not totally random but it bears no relationship to what I was trying to do. It is heavily influenced by where I've been while the app was running. The software is a perfect training tool to learn nvda because of the missing Windows keyboard shortcuts. The first time I ran it, nothing worked and that's when somebody told me about the object navigator and it is a wonderful thing but there must be something I should test for and manually correct. It's not losing focus so much as it just seems to take off to where the spirit moves it. I haven't figured out the difference between the occasional productive session and total chaos which is the rule rather than the exception. I am going to put a link to where to get this software but I think the problem is I am still learning nvda and this software is so lacking in indoor plumbing and electricity as a figure of speech that I don't know all the tricks yet and there is no other alternative but to use this particular software. If the problem I describe sounds familiar, it is probably common to deficient software and playing with this particular software is not necessary. https://gd-77.s3.amazonaws.com/GD-77S%20Firmware%20V1.3.0%20%26%20Software%20V1.1.10_20190712.zip This is not a particularly dangerous zip file but unpack it somewhere you feel comfortable with it. It will produce two directories, one with firmware in it's name and the other with program in it's name. We're interested in the program directory. You can run the setup and it will install gd-77S which is the program. It configures a brand of two-way radio of the same name as the program But the radio doesn't need to be present to run the program. It builds a configuration file that one feeds in to a radio as a last step. I have been able to use most of the program but it would be nice to be able to dependably go where one intended to go rather than pinball around getting nothing done. Thanks for any and all constructive ideas especially any links to documentation for nvda which I say again, is a wonderful tool which those of us who use it are thankful for. Martin McCormick
|
|
|
|
Gene
I haven't used the program and I can't tell how
much of your problem is not knowing certain things about object navigation, the
program itself, or both.
I don't know if you already know all this but I'd
rather cover things you know than not discuss something that might be
helpful.
Numpad insert numpad slash is the move mouse
command to the current position of the navigator. Hold numpad insert and
press numpad slash. Slash by itself is left mouse click. If you are
using numpad insert numpad slash to move the mouse, then clicking and doing
something, are you then moving somewhere else, moving the mouse after you move
and clicking the mouse? If you aren't moving the mouse, you may be
clicking on where you were before and you may be clicking something
unintended. the position of the mouse might be the same, but the program
may be showing something else under the mouse because of actions you have
taken.
Gene
----- Original Message
-----
From: Martin McCormick
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 4:46 PM
Subject: [nvda] Too Much Serendipity. I'm Obviously Missing
Something. Windows keyboard shortcuts don't work so you have to use the object navigator. It's nvda + numpad / followed by numpad / which is a left-click and you're at the top of a Tree View. Arrow down and there's the tree name which you open and there are, in this case, eleven items that one visits as needed to throw virtual switches or enter data. When things work, one double-left-clicks on a heading such as General Settings and it opens to reveal several configurable parameters so one does one's thing in there and then presses the left-click to be outside of the heading, ready to go to another heading or folder to open it and do things. When it is cyber fun house day, the system is totally dyslexic. I can check the navigator with nvda + nunpad-5 and the caret with nvda + Tab and they show the same field I am sitting on with the arrows so I double-left-click and poof! I am at some other randomly-selected part of the tree. It's actually not totally random but it bears no relationship to what I was trying to do. It is heavily influenced by where I've been while the app was running. The software is a perfect training tool to learn nvda because of the missing Windows keyboard shortcuts. The first time I ran it, nothing worked and that's when somebody told me about the object navigator and it is a wonderful thing but there must be something I should test for and manually correct. It's not losing focus so much as it just seems to take off to where the spirit moves it. I haven't figured out the difference between the occasional productive session and total chaos which is the rule rather than the exception. I am going to put a link to where to get this software but I think the problem is I am still learning nvda and this software is so lacking in indoor plumbing and electricity as a figure of speech that I don't know all the tricks yet and there is no other alternative but to use this particular software. If the problem I describe sounds familiar, it is probably common to deficient software and playing with this particular software is not necessary. https://gd-77.s3.amazonaws.com/GD-77S%20Firmware%20V1.3.0%20%26%20Software%20V1.1.10_20190712.zip This is not a particularly dangerous zip file but unpack it somewhere you feel comfortable with it. It will produce two directories, one with firmware in it's name and the other with program in it's name. We're interested in the program directory. You can run the setup and it will install gd-77S which is the program. It configures a brand of two-way radio of the same name as the program But the radio doesn't need to be present to run the program. It builds a configuration file that one feeds in to a radio as a last step. I have been able to use most of the program but it would be nice to be able to dependably go where one intended to go rather than pinball around getting nothing done. Thanks for any and all constructive ideas especially any links to documentation for nvda which I say again, is a wonderful tool which those of us who use it are thankful for. Martin McCormick
|
|
|
|
Martin McCormick
I will interlieve my answers with your message.
"Gene" <gsasner@...> writes: I haven't used the program and I can't tell how much of your problem isI suspect it is both. The program is flaky under nvda and positively bonkers under narrator. It actually opens better at first under narrator as narrator appears to know how to open the tree but then you start seeing stuff that shouldn't appear. Extremely possible in fact, my gut feeling is that focus only appears to be okay but isn't part of the time. Here is an example and I don't know what this means yet but the trouble starts after here. Up to here, things work and the program prints a message Digital Contact Tree View item focus selected expanded 2 of 2 Level 2 That's good and normal. When I Down-arrow from there, the next link looks normal and says: Level 3 Stillwater 1 of 2 If you use the navigator device of nvda +numpad-5 to see what focus points to, you get Stillwater Local Tree View item focus selected invisible off-screen 1 of 2 level 3 I believe that off screen part of the message tells us a lot but am not sure what. There is another heading called General Settings and a double-click there sends you several lines down to a totally unrelated heading. This time, I arrowed up to General Settings and did a nvda + numpad-/ so as to move the mouse there. I then double-left-clicked the mouse and wonder of wonders, I was in General settings and could move around and change stuff to my heart's content. I then hit numpad / and got back to General Settings so, for fun, I double-left clicked again which should have put me back in General Settings. It just sat there and a Tab press put me back in. I hear insanity is doing the same thing but expecting different results but doing the same thing and getting different results is also a bit wacko. Also, I arrowed down about 5 lines and then hit Tab and I was back inside General Settings. The focus didn't move because I could type a single left-click and was back on the General Settings heading once again. Does all that help any? This behavior is the norm when running this software and it is enough to drive one crazy. Anyway, it is what it is but I wish I could reset when leaving one of the main headings so each new double-click takes you where common sense says you should be. I have been using Windows10 and nvda since last Summer and never seen behavior like this. Everything else I've done in Windows was fairly predictable and one gets the feeling of being in control. Thanks Martin
|
|
|
|
John Isige
You wrote the following:
" I then hit numpad / and got back to General Settings so, for fun, I double-left clicked again which should have put me back in General Settings. It just sat there and a Tab press put me back in." If you really just double-clicked again, i.e. hit numpad slash twice quickly, that might be your problem. I'd just defensively use routing. It seems to work, and that way you're sure that you are where you think you are. BTW, this may or may not work, but if you're using the object cursor, NVDA-enter activates the object the cursor's on. That might let you get to some things quicker than hitting NVDA-numpad slash and numpad slash every time.
|
|
|
|
Martin McCormick
First, thank you. I will try your suggestion.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
After a night's sleep, I have figured out some of the madness and it's definitely not right but somewhat manageable once you know what it is. I open a new window and start the program. I then load the work file I am building and then virtually move the mouse to the tree top. Next, it's expand the tree and visit one of the eleven major headings, expanding as needed or just clicking with a double-left-click for those that have only one level. If you type the Tab key, you always start off by getting that strum sound which means nothing is going to happen. If you haven't visited any of the major headings and gone in yet, your first attempt to open one usually works with the double-left-click opening the item. The Tab key starts working and you can do your work then a Single left-click puts you back out on the street, so to speak. Here's what I discovered however. After one visits that first field in whatever area one chose, you can not apparently visit other major headings. The double-left-clicks stop opening things or they are the wrong things or you end up randomly somewhere else depending on how confused things are. The Tab key now either reopens somewhere you've been or the point of reference is lost and you just find yourself at a heading that isn't needed right now. I haven't figured out how to clear everything without exiting the program and reloading. something is remembering just enough stuff to be wrong after the first object visit. That Tab key will continue to not strum but launch you in to the walls every time you press it until you shut the program down. Note to Tesla. Don't use this logic in your AI efforts. I did try NVDA+enter. It said "Activate" and nothing else new happened but this is definitely an issue of wrong focus or remembering irrelevant information. As I say, I have never used a piece of software that is so broken. If it turns out there is a strategy to make it normal, it's not intuitive by any means. The only thing good I can say is that if you can access the different major headers, the program behaves but it is like pulling teeth to get it to just do what it should. Martin "John Isige" <gwynn@...> writes:
If you really just double-clicked again, i.e. hit numpad slash twice
|
|
|
|
Gene
I expect you can move out of the interface without
left clicking. Do you know how to move by object and in the object
hierarchy? You should be able to leave any object without clicking by
moving through the hierarchy. I don't know if left clicking to move is
causing the problem or part of it but it isn't the way you usually move
somewhere else when working with object navigation.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin McCormick
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Too Much Serendipity. I'm Obviously Missing
Something. After a night's sleep, I have figured out some of the madness and it's definitely not right but somewhat manageable once you know what it is. I open a new window and start the program. I then load the work file I am building and then virtually move the mouse to the tree top. Next, it's expand the tree and visit one of the eleven major headings, expanding as needed or just clicking with a double-left-click for those that have only one level. If you type the Tab key, you always start off by getting that strum sound which means nothing is going to happen. If you haven't visited any of the major headings and gone in yet, your first attempt to open one usually works with the double-left-click opening the item. The Tab key starts working and you can do your work then a Single left-click puts you back out on the street, so to speak. Here's what I discovered however. After one visits that first field in whatever area one chose, you can not apparently visit other major headings. The double-left-clicks stop opening things or they are the wrong things or you end up randomly somewhere else depending on how confused things are. The Tab key now either reopens somewhere you've been or the point of reference is lost and you just find yourself at a heading that isn't needed right now. I haven't figured out how to clear everything without exiting the program and reloading. something is remembering just enough stuff to be wrong after the first object visit. That Tab key will continue to not strum but launch you in to the walls every time you press it until you shut the program down. Note to Tesla. Don't use this logic in your AI efforts. I did try NVDA+enter. It said "Activate" and nothing else new happened but this is definitely an issue of wrong focus or remembering irrelevant information. As I say, I have never used a piece of software that is so broken. If it turns out there is a strategy to make it normal, it's not intuitive by any means. The only thing good I can say is that if you can access the different major headers, the program behaves but it is like pulling teeth to get it to just do what it should. Martin "John Isige" <gwynn@...> writes: > If you really just double-clicked again, i.e. hit numpad slash twice > quickly, that might be your problem. I'd just defensively use routing. > It seems to work, and that way you're sure that you are where you think > you are. BTW, this may or may not work, but if you're using the object > cursor, NVDA-enter activates the object the cursor's on. That might let > you get to some things quicker than hitting NVDA-numpad slash and numpad > slash every time.
|
|
|
|
Gene
I should have said you can move out of where you
are working, since you are still in the program interface. In other words,
you should be able to move away from where you are working by moving in the
object hierarchy.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Too Much Serendipity. I'm Obviously Missing
Something. I expect you can move out of the interface without
left clicking. Do you know how to move by object and in the object
hierarchy? You should be able to leave any object without clicking by
moving through the hierarchy. I don't know if left clicking to move is
causing the problem or part of it but it isn't the way you usually move
somewhere else when working with object navigation.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin McCormick
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Too Much Serendipity. I'm Obviously Missing
Something. After a night's sleep, I have figured out some of the madness and it's definitely not right but somewhat manageable once you know what it is. I open a new window and start the program. I then load the work file I am building and then virtually move the mouse to the tree top. Next, it's expand the tree and visit one of the eleven major headings, expanding as needed or just clicking with a double-left-click for those that have only one level. If you type the Tab key, you always start off by getting that strum sound which means nothing is going to happen. If you haven't visited any of the major headings and gone in yet, your first attempt to open one usually works with the double-left-click opening the item. The Tab key starts working and you can do your work then a Single left-click puts you back out on the street, so to speak. Here's what I discovered however. After one visits that first field in whatever area one chose, you can not apparently visit other major headings. The double-left-clicks stop opening things or they are the wrong things or you end up randomly somewhere else depending on how confused things are. The Tab key now either reopens somewhere you've been or the point of reference is lost and you just find yourself at a heading that isn't needed right now. I haven't figured out how to clear everything without exiting the program and reloading. something is remembering just enough stuff to be wrong after the first object visit. That Tab key will continue to not strum but launch you in to the walls every time you press it until you shut the program down. Note to Tesla. Don't use this logic in your AI efforts. I did try NVDA+enter. It said "Activate" and nothing else new happened but this is definitely an issue of wrong focus or remembering irrelevant information. As I say, I have never used a piece of software that is so broken. If it turns out there is a strategy to make it normal, it's not intuitive by any means. The only thing good I can say is that if you can access the different major headers, the program behaves but it is like pulling teeth to get it to just do what it should. Martin "John Isige" <gwynn@...> writes: > If you really just double-clicked again, i.e. hit numpad slash twice > quickly, that might be your problem. I'd just defensively use routing. > It seems to work, and that way you're sure that you are where you think > you are. BTW, this may or may not work, but if you're using the object > cursor, NVDA-enter activates the object the cursor's on. That might let > you get to some things quicker than hitting NVDA-numpad slash and numpad > slash every time.
|
|
|
|
Dave Grossoehme
Good Afternoon: I apologize for seeing your message a little late. However, I might have a couple of ideas to try. What happens when you press the backspace key? The next question is the shift + tab key combination. If the tab key won't do anything then the nexdt thing that comes to my mind which has been a help for many programs is the shift + tab. This generally will take you back one tab stop. If these ideas don't help, try pressing the application key which is the key to the left of the right control key. After pressing the application key try arrowing down and see what options you have here. It seems like the windows 10 has starting to place more options here.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Dave
On 1/25/2020 7:19 AM, Martin McCormick wrote:
First, thank you. I will try your suggestion.
|
|
|