Topics

nvda in safe mode


Martin McCormick
 

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few. A del *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin


Jackie
 

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/56683

Having thus said, I don't think it's gonna help, because I believe
that when you use the command line, as in a batch file, then it
bypasses the recycle bin. There's nothing to indicate this is a
problem w/a driver or a service that safe mode would resolve.

I think you need some recovery software. I suggest using another
machine if possible so that writes to the hard drive in question are
kept to a minimum. Enclose it in a USB caddy if possible. Don't try to
recover the files to the drive you're trying to recover, but on a
separate drive. Again, you wanna keep writes to that hard drive to the
bare minimum.

On 1/26/20, Martin McCormick <martin.m@...> wrote:
I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few. A del *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



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hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Can you get a browser to work at present if you can I can send you to my nvda audio tutorials page at http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20audio%20tutorials.html



I copied and pasted the directions of how to get into safe mode in windows. This is on a windows 10 machine. I can not remember but I think the latest versions of windows 10 might let you in without the patch.


I will drop box the patch if needed.


To use NVDA in safe mode
You will need to install a registry patch first. This file can be found at https://www.dropbox.com/s/jr72u3sk7p0za2r/Activate_Sound_in_Win10_Safe_Mode.zip?dl=0
After it has been installed it will allow you to use NVDA in safe mode. This has been tested on a Windows 7 and Windows 10 machine and with quite a few different sound cards.
Directions to go into and out of safe mode in Windows
You can reboot in to safe mode by doing the following:
Press Windows plus R and type msconfig and hit Enter
Press Ctrl plus Tab to get to the "boot tab"
Tab to "safe boot" and check the check mark/check box.
Tab to "base video" and check it as well.
Tab to the apply button. Press Enter (or spacebar).
Tab to the OK button and press it. You should get a prompt to restart the computer to apply the changes.
If you select "restart now" your PC should restart into safe mode.
Please note: When the registry patch has been installed, when you go into safe mode,  you will have sound and be able to use the NVDA screen reader.
Message you will get while in safe mode

To confirm you are in safe mode, you can use the NVDA key + letter B. Below is the type of message you will get as an example on a Windows 10 machine.
Safe Mode Microsoft (R) Windows (R) (Build 16299.rs3_release.170928-1534) Safe Mode
After finishing your PC job with safe mode, do the same steps above, but this time uncheck the two check boxes above for both safe boot, and base video. Tab to apply and press Enter. Tab to OK and press Enter (or spacebar) and restart. Your PC will restart to the normal mode.

On 27/01/2020 7:34 am, Martin McCormick wrote:
I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few. A del *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin


Gene
 

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



Gene
 

I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I don't know. 
 
Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



Oriana
 

I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore (which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs, DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from writing over the top of any file.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I don't know. 
 
Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



Gene
 

I wasn't objecting to writing to the hard drive, if it means restoring files such as from old versions.  Have you used old versions?  System restore, when you run it, doesn't restore files if they are data files like documents, music, etc.  But old versions, or shadow copy, will restore deleted files. 
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore (which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs, DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from writing over the top of any file.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I don't know. 
 
Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



Jackie
 

System restore will not restore user files. It doesn't touch them. All
you'll do is make additional writes to your hard drive, rendering any
possibility of file recovery more problematic than it already is.

On 1/26/20, Oriana <@orineu> wrote:
I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC
repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the
manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that
will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore
(which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command
line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to
recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage
of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually
does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still
stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it
will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as
CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to
restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore
those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs,
DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from
writing over the top of any file.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I just did a little looking online. I found information relating to
using
cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that
discussed Windows 10. But I don't see why this would have changed. The
del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin. it just deletes
them. I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files
sent
to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old
versions of Windows. What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I
don't
know.

Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as
I
thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch
file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <gsasner@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin. This has
nothing to do with safe mode. The recycle bin is where files are sent
when
deleted in the ordinary way. If they are there, you can open the recycle
bin and you will see them. You can restore them from the recycle bin.
If
you want to do something else, we can discuss that. If you have system
Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do
the
same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7. System Restore, by default,
backs up all your files. The feature is called Shadow Copy but in
Windows
7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the
properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.

If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in
Shadow
Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't
know
which ones work well or if they work as well as desired.

I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files
using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin. I'm not sure
why
I think that, but I believe that is the case.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Martin McCormick <martin.m@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few. A del *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin






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Oriana
 

Gene,

I'm sorry for the confusion but i was referring to Jackie.

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 4:58 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I wasn't objecting to writing to the hard drive, if it means restoring files such as from old versions.  Have you used old versions?  System restore, when you run it, doesn't restore files if they are data files like documents, music, etc.  But old versions, or shadow copy, will restore deleted files. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore (which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs, DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from writing over the top of any file.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I don't know. 
 
Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



Gene
 

I should add that the comments on writing to the hard drive reminded me of something.  let's say that your last restore point was a week ago and that there are files you don't want to lose from the week since.  If you use old versions, I wonder if the files, being placed on the current folders might overright files that are newer and make them unrecoverable.  But then, on the other hand, it may be so cumbersome and time consuming recovering files with a recovery program and I don't know if they all would be, that it might be better to use old versions.  I don't know if it would be cumbersome and time consuming, I'm raising that as a possibility.  I haven't used such programs much. 
 
This should be discussed more by those who have more technical knowledge than I do, but I'm not sure it should be continued on the main list.  It really should be in the chat group.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I wasn't objecting to writing to the hard drive, if it means restoring files such as from old versions.  Have you used old versions?  System restore, when you run it, doesn't restore files if they are data files like documents, music, etc.  But old versions, or shadow copy, will restore deleted files. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore (which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs, DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from writing over the top of any file.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I don't know. 
 
Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



Gene
 

Again, I am not talking about system restore per se.  II'm talking about shadow copy, which is not the same as running system restore.  and system restore can restore system and program files.  There are times when it is perfectly appropriate to use it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

System restore will not restore user files. It doesn't touch them. All
you'll do is make additional writes to your hard drive, rendering any
possibility of file recovery more problematic than it already is.

On 1/26/20, Oriana <o.neulinger@...> wrote:
> I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC
> repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the
> manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that
> will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore
> (which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command
> line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to
> recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage
> of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually
> does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still
> stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it
> will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as
> CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to
> restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore
> those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs,
> DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from
> writing over the top of any file.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>
>> I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to
>> using
>> cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that
>> discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The
>> del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes
>> them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files
>> sent
>> to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old
>> versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I
>> don't
>> know.
>>
>> Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as
>> I
>> thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch
>> file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Gene <gsasner@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode
>>
>> If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has
>> nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent
>> when
>> deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle
>> bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.
>> If
>> you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system
>> Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do
>> the
>> same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default,
>> backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in
>> Windows
>> 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the
>> properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
>>
>> If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in
>> Shadow
>> Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't
>> know
>> which ones work well or if they work as well as desired.
>>
>> I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files
>> using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure
>> why
>> I think that, but I believe that is the case.
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Martin McCormick <martin.m@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* [nvda] nvda in safe mode
>>
>> I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
>> have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
>> maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
>> clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
>> supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
>> my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.
>>
>> del /q/f/s *.*
>>
>> I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
>> powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
>> tells the system my path was one of the casualties.
>>
>> I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
>> so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
>> things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
>> are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.
>>
>> If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
>> with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
>> close to it.
>>
>> I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
>> buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
>> should have gone there.
>>
>> Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
>> system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
>> whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
>> is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.
>>
>> Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
>> Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
>> Mode yet?
>>
>> If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
>> part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
>> lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
>> couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
>> either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.
>>
>> This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
>> backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
>> After this mishap, it will be sooner.
>>
>> I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
>> 1763.9-something
>>
>> In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
>> files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
>> the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
>> yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.
>>
>> It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
>> tired and in a hurry.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
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& check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com



Gene
 

I got the messages out of order and I didn't see Jackie's message until I had responded to yours.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

Gene,

I'm sorry for the confusion but i was referring to Jackie.

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 4:58 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I wasn't objecting to writing to the hard drive, if it means restoring files such as from old versions.  Have you used old versions?  System restore, when you run it, doesn't restore files if they are data files like documents, music, etc.  But old versions, or shadow copy, will restore deleted files. 
 
Gene
----- Original message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I would recommend hiring or at least getting the advice of a local PC repair technician, or if the PC is under warranty contacting the manufacturer. As someone else said, it's a bad idea to do anything that will cause writes to the hard drive. This may include system restore (which, although ymmv, has never restored user files for me). The command line definitely bypasses the recycle bin, so the only way i know of to recover any of the files is to use one of the programs that takes advantage of hardware limitations - when windows deletes a file, what it actually does is delete the index indicating that the file exists. The data is still stored on your hard drive, but windows can't tell that it's there, so it will begin writing over the data. "Data Recovery" programs such as CCleaner's Recuva (accessibility unknown, but it claims to be able to restore data from even a reformatted drive, and it's free) will restore those index files or copy the data over to USB drives/optical storage (CDs, DVDs). I recommend the latter, obviously, in order to prevent Windows from writing over the top of any file.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 3:51 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I just did a little looking online.  I found information relating to using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that discussed Windows 10.  But I don't see why this would have changed.  The del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin.  it just deletes them.  I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other old versions of Windows.  What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I don't know. 
 
Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

If I understand your message, you want to use the recycle bin.  This has nothing to do with safe mode.  The recycle bin is where files are sent when deleted in the ordinary way.  If they are there, you can open the recycle bin and you will see them.  You can restore them from the recycle bin.  If you want to do something else, we can discuss that.  If you have system Restore on and you have restore points, I would expect that you can do the same thing in Windows 10 as in Windows 7.  System Restore, by default, backs up all your files.  The feature is called Shadow Copy but in Windows 7, if you use it, it is called previous versions and it is in the properties of the drive, or of a folder or file.
 
If the files aren't available in the recycle bin and they aren't in Shadow Copy, you would have to use some sort of undelete program and I don't know which ones work well or if they work as well as desired. 
 
I suspect, however, though I don't know this, that when you delete files using a batch file, they aren't sent to the recycle bin.  I'm not sure why I think that, but I believe that is the case. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

I had an accident yesterday when a batch file appears to
have deleted all the files in my c:\users\martin directory with
maybe the exception of a few.  A del  *.* that was supposed to
clean out a single folder deleted everything because it was
supposed to start in 1 specific directory but instead launched on
my whole file tree starting at c:\users\martin.

del /q/f/s *.*

I can log in just fine but if I run the cmd command or
powershell, I start out in c:\windows\system32 so a file that
tells the system my path was one of the casualties.

I know that deleting a file sends it to the recycle bin
so if I can recover those files that were deleted yesterday,
things should be good again but with even minor disasters, things
are all ways served with a touch of nasty sauce.

If I go to c:\users\martin, the directory is there along
with all the subdirectories but they are either all empty or
close to it.

I have opened the recycle bin but haven't found any
buttons that start the process of recovering the files that
should have gone there.

Since I normally work in unix, I have used this Windows
system primarily for it's browsers and to program two-way radios
whose programming software is only found under Windows so there
is about 60 GB out of close to 1 TB that is used.

Apparently, the best way to recover these files is in
Safe mode so my question is Does NVDA or narrator start in Safe
Mode yet?

If there is a way to tell the system to rebuild the lost
part of my home directory, this would do also as most of what was
lost is  stuff that came with the installation as there were a
couple of replaceable files in Downloads and everything else was
either self-generated or can be rebuilt fairly easily.

This is no excuse but that is partly why I didn't have a
backup system going yet but was going to set one up very soon.
After this mishap, it will be sooner.

I am running Windows10 1809 with a build number of
1763.9-something

In Safe Mode, one can even use the command line to grab
files out of c:\$Recycle.Bin but when logged in as me, which is
the admin account, one can see $Recycle.Bin but listing it
yields a "File not found" error for the whole directory.

It's amazing what stupid things we can do when a bit
tired and in a hurry.

Martin



 

One would absolutely need to use a file recovery utility to get data back under these circumstances.  And when one is doing file recovery you never, ever, ever, attempt to recover to the same drive that you originally had the data on.  It's always recovered to a second drive to prevent the need to write anything to the drive being recovered from.  Ideally, in an instance like this, the recovery would be booted from USB or DVD-ROM so that absolutely no write activity is needed on the original drive.

And not to rub salt in an open wound, but this is a teachable moment:  this is but one of the myriad ways in which data can be lost on any given drive.  The only thing that comes close to an assurance of having data be "un-losable" is having a external backup drive and a regular, cyclic backup routine - with on-demand backups when you have any unusual high number of new files created in a very short period of time, e.g., uploading thousands of photos or ripping many CDs at one time.  If one has really, really critical and precious data, then one should be taking two backups to two different drives (whether one is physical and the other on the cloud, or both physical).  And one of those two backups should not be in the same physical location as either the computer being backed up or the other backup media.  Were you to have a flood, fire, or the like if all your data is in one physical location then it's all likely lost.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Oriana
 

For future reference, volume shadow copy seems to be what happens when you run a manual or manually scheduled backup using Windows Backup where you've checked the box that says "save user files", and it only succeeds if the Volume Shadow Copy Service (VSS) is running at the time of the backup. The automatic Windows Backup/Restore run during patches and upgrades does not include user files, which is why i was unaware of this extra backup service at all. It also seems that restoring a shadow copy cannot be done through Windows Restore as Windows removed the GUI in Windows 8, although i may be mistaken as to the usage, or it may have been reimplemented in Windows 10. Here is a link describing two methods of recovering deleted files using shadow copies - but again, this only works if you know you've been creating shadow copies to begin with.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 5:14 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
One would absolutely need to use a file recovery utility to get data back under these circumstances.  And when one is doing file recovery you never, ever, ever, attempt to recover to the same drive that you originally had the data on.  It's always recovered to a second drive to prevent the need to write anything to the drive being recovered from.  Ideally, in an instance like this, the recovery would be booted from USB or DVD-ROM so that absolutely no write activity is needed on the original drive.

And not to rub salt in an open wound, but this is a teachable moment:  this is but one of the myriad ways in which data can be lost on any given drive.  The only thing that comes close to an assurance of having data be "un-losable" is having a external backup drive and a regular, cyclic backup routine - with on-demand backups when you have any unusual high number of new files created in a very short period of time, e.g., uploading thousands of photos or ripping many CDs at one time.  If one has really, really critical and precious data, then one should be taking two backups to two different drives (whether one is physical and the other on the cloud, or both physical).  And one of those two backups should not be in the same physical location as either the computer being backed up or the other backup media.  Were you to have a flood, fire, or the like if all your data is in one physical location then it's all likely lost.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Gene
 

Have you looked in folder or drive properties to see if previous versions is in the properties dialog? 
 
In Windows 7, unless something causes System Restore to create a restore point more frequently, it creates one once a week.  the check box you mention is on by default.  And Shadow copy makes a backup of files when System Restore automatically runs once a week.  I haven't checked to see if restore points have previous versions available if one is made as the result of installing a program or for some other reason.  it doesn't seem plausible, however, that Shadow Copy would distinguish between how a restore point is made, though I am telling you what makes sense to me, I have no way of checking in Windows 10 and I would have to do something like install a program to check in Windows 7.
 
I have never seen anything in discussions of Shadow copy distinguishing between how a restore point is made.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

For future reference, volume shadow copy seems to be what happens when you run a manual or manually scheduled backup using Windows Backup where you've checked the box that says "save user files", and it only succeeds if the Volume Shadow Copy Service (VSS) is running at the time of the backup. The automatic Windows Backup/Restore run during patches and upgrades does not include user files, which is why i was unaware of this extra backup service at all. It also seems that restoring a shadow copy cannot be done through Windows Restore as Windows removed the GUI in Windows 8, although i may be mistaken as to the usage, or it may have been reimplemented in Windows 10. Here is a link describing two methods of recovering deleted files using shadow copies - but again, this only works if you know you've been creating shadow copies to begin with.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 5:14 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
One would absolutely need to use a file recovery utility to get data back under these circumstances.  And when one is doing file recovery you never, ever, ever, attempt to recover to the same drive that you originally had the data on.  It's always recovered to a second drive to prevent the need to write anything to the drive being recovered from.  Ideally, in an instance like this, the recovery would be booted from USB or DVD-ROM so that absolutely no write activity is needed on the original drive.

And not to rub salt in an open wound, but this is a teachable moment:  this is but one of the myriad ways in which data can be lost on any given drive.  The only thing that comes close to an assurance of having data be "un-losable" is having a external backup drive and a regular, cyclic backup routine - with on-demand backups when you have any unusual high number of new files created in a very short period of time, e.g., uploading thousands of photos or ripping many CDs at one time.  If one has really, really critical and precious data, then one should be taking two backups to two different drives (whether one is physical and the other on the cloud, or both physical).  And one of those two backups should not be in the same physical location as either the computer being backed up or the other backup media.  Were you to have a flood, fire, or the like if all your data is in one physical location then it's all likely lost.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


 

To be clear, I am not proposing using volume shadow copies.

One should be taking full system image backups using the third-party tool of one's choosing, which is what Microsoft recommends, as well as parallel separate user data backups, which can be using that same third-party tool or Microsoft's own File History if running Windows 8.1 or 10.

System Protection (of which System Restore is a part) has never been intended as a full-recovery utility (which would include user data) and is notoriously flaky.  It's focus is allowing the system to be rolled back in the event that, for instance, a bad new driver were installed that breaks something.  It rolls back the state of the system registry and certain underlying support folders in the Windows hierarchy.  It, as Jackie has already noted, has never, ever been involved in user data backup or recovery. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Gene
 

From the article you linked to:
Every time a system restore point is created, you will have a valid shadow copy. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

Have you looked in folder or drive properties to see if previous versions is in the properties dialog? 
 
In Windows 7, unless something causes System Restore to create a restore point more frequently, it creates one once a week.  the check box you mention is on by default.  And Shadow copy makes a backup of files when System Restore automatically runs once a week.  I haven't checked to see if restore points have previous versions available if one is made as the result of installing a program or for some other reason.  it doesn't seem plausible, however, that Shadow Copy would distinguish between how a restore point is made, though I am telling you what makes sense to me, I have no way of checking in Windows 10 and I would have to do something like install a program to check in Windows 7.
 
I have never seen anything in discussions of Shadow copy distinguishing between how a restore point is made.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Oriana
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

For future reference, volume shadow copy seems to be what happens when you run a manual or manually scheduled backup using Windows Backup where you've checked the box that says "save user files", and it only succeeds if the Volume Shadow Copy Service (VSS) is running at the time of the backup. The automatic Windows Backup/Restore run during patches and upgrades does not include user files, which is why i was unaware of this extra backup service at all. It also seems that restoring a shadow copy cannot be done through Windows Restore as Windows removed the GUI in Windows 8, although i may be mistaken as to the usage, or it may have been reimplemented in Windows 10. Here is a link describing two methods of recovering deleted files using shadow copies - but again, this only works if you know you've been creating shadow copies to begin with.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 5:14 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
One would absolutely need to use a file recovery utility to get data back under these circumstances.  And when one is doing file recovery you never, ever, ever, attempt to recover to the same drive that you originally had the data on.  It's always recovered to a second drive to prevent the need to write anything to the drive being recovered from.  Ideally, in an instance like this, the recovery would be booted from USB or DVD-ROM so that absolutely no write activity is needed on the original drive.

And not to rub salt in an open wound, but this is a teachable moment:  this is but one of the myriad ways in which data can be lost on any given drive.  The only thing that comes close to an assurance of having data be "un-losable" is having a external backup drive and a regular, cyclic backup routine - with on-demand backups when you have any unusual high number of new files created in a very short period of time, e.g., uploading thousands of photos or ripping many CDs at one time.  If one has really, really critical and precious data, then one should be taking two backups to two different drives (whether one is physical and the other on the cloud, or both physical).  And one of those two backups should not be in the same physical location as either the computer being backed up or the other backup media.  Were you to have a flood, fire, or the like if all your data is in one physical location then it's all likely lost.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Oriana
 

Brian,

I agree: "at least some" file recovery using "non-damaging" live-boot data recovery software onto removable media is the safest option in OPs case, and third-party backups onto dedicated removable media is always the best option in the long-term. And after recovering most of the 60GB of radio programming data, a "damaging" method such as system restore might help resolve/recreate the user path.

My reference post regarding VSS was to clarify Gene's proposal for same-hard-drive recovery, which might have uses between full backups or if no removable media is available. As a standard feature, it seems that VSS is used primarily for server-style or networked windows systems, which i am very unfamiliar with, but these systems typically cannot be taken offline for weekly backups, they typically contain redundant hard drives in order to prevent complete loss due to hardware failure, and they often have dedicated and experienced caretakers who can transfer the shadow copies to removable media, as needed. It doesn't seem well-implemented for home users.


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020, 5:39 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
To be clear, I am not proposing using volume shadow copies.

One should be taking full system image backups using the third-party tool of one's choosing, which is what Microsoft recommends, as well as parallel separate user data backups, which can be using that same third-party tool or Microsoft's own File History if running Windows 8.1 or 10.

System Protection (of which System Restore is a part) has never been intended as a full-recovery utility (which would include user data) and is notoriously flaky.  It's focus is allowing the system to be rolled back in the event that, for instance, a bad new driver were installed that breaks something.  It rolls back the state of the system registry and certain underlying support folders in the Windows hierarchy.  It, as Jackie has already noted, has never, ever been involved in user data backup or recovery. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Gene
 

Shadow copy isn't a backup, but it is a part of system restore and it does allow recovery of deleted files or access to earlier versions, if desired.  I can use Shadow Copy to open a file that is an earlier version without restoring it.  it can be opened directly from where it is in Shadow Copy. 
 
I am not advocating using it instead of a backup.  But it is a very useful feature.  I once deleted something the day after I recorded it because I didn't think I needed it any longer.  I found that I had been wrong and I was able to recover it with Shadow Copy because, fortunately, System Restore had made a restore point while it was on the disk.  I hadn't backed it up because I erroneously thought I had already edited it and saved and backed up the edited version.
 
Also, there may be times when you want to open an earlier version of something without restoring it from a backup. You may want to compare versions.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda in safe mode

To be clear, I am not proposing using volume shadow copies.

One should be taking full system image backups using the third-party tool of one's choosing, which is what Microsoft recommends, as well as parallel separate user data backups, which can be using that same third-party tool or Microsoft's own File History if running Windows 8.1 or 10.

System Protection (of which System Restore is a part) has never been intended as a full-recovery utility (which would include user data) and is notoriously flaky.  It's focus is allowing the system to be rolled back in the event that, for instance, a bad new driver were installed that breaks something.  It rolls back the state of the system registry and certain underlying support folders in the Windows hierarchy.  It, as Jackie has already noted, has never, ever been involved in user data backup or recovery. 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Martin McCormick
 

What I have read so far only mentions a special form of
del that is a security-oriented form which apparently destroys
the file and any file deleted that way is pretty much a goner but
whether or not it is done one at a time or by batch file is never
mentioned.

I really hope not to have to use Safe Mode. The system
continued to run after my accident though I got some messages
from browsers that indicated I zapped data files in my home
directory which need to be brought back.

I looked at further messages as I wrote this one and what
everybody is saying is valid but when files are deleted, they are
first moved to Recycle where they sit until either someone or process
empties the bin at which point, you really do make the job of
recovery much more difficult and dangerous or if you use the
Recycle Bin, the file just gets moved back from where it came.

Fortunately, these are user files, not system files.

Let 's make sure I am accessing the recycle bin correctly.

It's a Tree View when you hit Enter on Recycle Bin.

In a perfect world, there would be a Recovery engine that
would say "Where are the files to be recovered?" You might even
be given buttons that say "backup media, Recycle Bin" and you
pick 1 and probably should be given a recovery criteria in which
you can tell it everything that was deleted 24 or less hours ago.

What I can't seem to find anywhere is actual file names
or anyway to copy them anywhere or do anything else for that
matter.

All the articles say how easy this is which makes me
think that I'm looking in the wrong place or the absence of some
of those missing files is confusing the restore process.

Is there a mailing list similar to this one only about
Windows, specifically? I appreciate the knowledge and answers so
far, but NVDA is only tangentially related to this problem.

As a unix command-line junky for 30 years, deleting files
does create a situation in which forensic methods are needed to
bring them back and the only unix-based platform I know of that
also has a trash bin does initially move deleted files to it
until you empty the bin and that's pretty much that. That
platform is the Mac.

If your deleted file is still in the bin, you can copy it
out but when it's gone from there, it isn't worth the risk and
possible trouble.

Several articles I found on line say that Windows7 to 10
to first move deleted files to the bin.

"Gene" <gsasner@...> writes:

I just did a little looking online. I found information relating to
using cmd in XP but in the small amount of searching I did, nothing that
discussed Windows 10. But I don't see why this would have changed. The
del command in XP doesn't send files to the recycle bin. it just deletes
them. I read parts of one or two discussions about how to have files
sent to the recycle bin when using cmd but they were for XP, and other
old versions of Windows. What is discussed may apply to Windows 10 but I
don't know.

Evidently it isn't the use of a batch file that causes this behavior, as
I thought, but use of the del command either manually entered or in a
batch file, if nothing is done to change this behavior.

Gene