1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
Topics

Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Christopher Gray
 

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with NVDA. I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works. For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text, but there is no braille. Sometimes while editing, when I move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after moving down. In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico text
editor. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to work
with NVDA. It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source. I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this? Or, might somebody be willing to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Christopher Gray
 

Hi:

I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last June, again Wednesday. If there is a better list or means of asking than this list, just let me know that.

I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and Window-Eyes.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with NVDA. I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works. For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text, but there is no braille. Sometimes while editing, when I move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after moving down. In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico text
editor. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to work
with NVDA. It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source. I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this? Or, might somebody be willing to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Tyler Spivey
 

What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?

On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:

I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of asking than this list, just let me know that.

I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and Window-Eyes.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows.  It is not exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works.  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text, but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the Pico text
editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to work
with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be willing to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
John Isige
 

Are those even used on unix systems anymore? I thought the email program
was something else. In any case, have you tried Microsoft's Windows
Subsystem for Linux? There are quite a few flavors. I haven't tried
running either under it so I don't know if it would work any better, but
that would be what I'd check. You need Windows 10 for the WSL though.
But if you have it, I'd just slap a basic Ubuntu or something on it, and
then install alpine as usual. Do sudo apt-get update then sudo apt-get
install foo.

On 2/7/2020 11:12, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:

I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once
last June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of
asking than this list, just let me know that.

I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to
diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and
Window-Eyes.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related
discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows
with NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a
full transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows.  It is not
exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly
works.  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in
the text, but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I
move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line
by line after moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the
messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the
Pico text
editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software
to work
with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs
have the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be
willing to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help
you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Christopher Gray
 

Hi and thanks for the response.

I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers. Alpine version is 2.20.

I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal program.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?


On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:

I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last
June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of asking than
this list, just let me know that.

I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to
diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and
Window-Eyes.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related
discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with
NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full
transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows.  It is not
exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works.
For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text,
but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down line
by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after
moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the
Pico text
editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to
work
with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have
the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be willing
to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Brian Vogel
 

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019, Christopher Gray wrote:
I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico text editor.
The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any screen reader that does not already work with them.

Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software.  Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
Christopher Gray
 

I'm not really prepared to take that route right now. It just adds too much complexity to the system. I much prefer to use the available Windows versions of these programs on my Windows PC.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, John Isige via Groups.Io wrote:

Are those even used on unix systems anymore? I thought the email program
was something else. In any case, have you tried Microsoft's Windows
Subsystem for Linux? There are quite a few flavors. I haven't tried
running either under it so I don't know if it would work any better, but
that would be what I'd check. You need Windows 10 for the WSL though.
But if you have it, I'd just slap a basic Ubuntu or something on it, and
then install alpine as usual. Do sudo apt-get update then sudo apt-get
install foo.


On 2/7/2020 11:12, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi:

I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once
last June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of
asking than this list, just let me know that.

I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to
diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and
Window-Eyes.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

Hello:

I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related
discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows
with NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a
full transition to NVDA.

Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows.  It is not
exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly
works.  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in
the text, but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I
move down line by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line
by line after moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the
messages at all.

Thanks.

Chris

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

Hi:

I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the
Pico text
editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software
to work
with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs
have the
same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be
willing to
look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

Many thanks.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help
you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Christopher Gray
 

My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained. If help from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:


I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico
text editor.
The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any screen reader that does not already work with them.

Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software.  Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

~ Madonna


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Arlene
 

Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches  you can download to your Program Alpine.  If you can’t use it you can let the developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after you asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else.   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained.  If help

from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.

 

Chris

 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian

Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:

 

> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:

> 

>> 

>> I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the Pico

>> text editor.

> 

> The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any screen reader that does not already work with them.

> 

> Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software.  Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.

> 

> --

> 

> Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

> 

> *Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

> 

> ~ Madonna

> 

>

> 

> 

 

****************************************

Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in

your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

 

----------------------------------------

Christopher Gray, Executive Director

Missouri Council of the Blind

 

5453 Chippewa

St. Louis, MO 63109

Phone:     (314) 832-7172

Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

Fax:       (314) 832-7796

 

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.

Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific

Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

 

 

 
Christopher Gray
 

Patches pretty much relate to the Linux/Unix version, not the Windows version.


Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:

Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a
frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches  you can
download to your Program Alpine.  If you can’t use it you can let the
developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after you
asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained.  If
help
from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian
Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:


On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:
I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the
Pico

text editor.
The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not
written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being
maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any
screen reader that does not already work with them.

Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough
time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish
to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software. Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past
for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the
developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with
screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.

--
Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363
*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*
~ Madonna
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.



****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
ben <swigjr23@...>
 

Hi Chris,


i am not an NVDA developer, so I might be completely wrong, but I think this might be harder than you think to fix. The main problem you have is Pico and Alpine are hard to find online. At least I can't find Windows ports. Also, it depends if these programs are command line based as they are on Linux, or are they actual graphical versions. I have used Alpine and Nano under Linux, but it has been a while. If I can find the Windows versions, I will take a look and I will test them with a couple other screen readers.


I wish I could help more; you might have better luck filing an issue on GitHub.


Ben
Arlene
 

You’d probably have to ask the developer to somehow develop a windows version along with linix. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

Patches pretty much relate to the Linux/Unix version, not the Windows version.

 

 

Chris

 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:

 

>

> Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a

> frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches  you can

> download to your Program Alpine.  If you can’t use it you can let the

> developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after you

> asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else.

> 

>

>

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> 

>

>

> From: Christopher Gray

> Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

> 

>

>

> My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained.  If

> help

>

> from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.

> 

>

>

> Chris

> 

>

>

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian

>

> Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:

> 

>

>

> > On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:

>

> >

>

> >>

>

> >> I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the

> Pico

>

> >> text editor.

>

> >

>

> > The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not

> written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being

> maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any

> screen reader that does not already work with them.

>

> >

>

> > Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough

> time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish

> to remain working with currently supported operating systems and software.

> Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant past

> for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the

> developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with

> screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.

>

> >

>

> > --

>

> >

>

> > Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

>

> >

>

> > *Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

>

> >

>

> > ~ Madonna

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

> 

>

>

> ****************************************

>

> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council

> of the Blind in

>

> your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you

> with this.

> 

>

>

> ----------------------------------------

>

> Christopher Gray, Executive Director

>

> Missouri Council of the Blind

> 

>

>

> 5453 Chippewa

>

> St. Louis, MO 63109

>

> Phone:     (314) 832-7172

>

> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

>

> Fax:       (314) 832-7796

> 

>

>

> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

>

> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,

> Chris and Don.

>

> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

> Pacific

>

> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

>

> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

>

> Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

>

> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

>

> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

> 

>

> 

>

> 

>

>

>

>

> 

 

****************************************

Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in

your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

 

----------------------------------------

Christopher Gray, Executive Director

Missouri Council of the Blind

 

5453 Chippewa

St. Louis, MO 63109

Phone:     (314) 832-7172

Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

Fax:       (314) 832-7796

 

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.

Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific

Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

 

 

 
Ron Canazzi
 

How well does Alpine work for Windows?  I believe I tried it and its predecessor Pine and it wasn't very accessible.

On 2/7/2020 12:31 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi and thanks for the response.

I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers.  Alpine version is 2.20.

I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal program.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?


On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:
 Hi:

 I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last
 June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of asking than
 this list, just let me know that.

 I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to
 diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and
 Window-Eyes.

 Chris

 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
 Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

 Hello:

 I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related
 discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with
 NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full
 transition to NVDA.

 Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not
 exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works.
 For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text,
 but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down line
 by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after
 moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.

 Thanks.

 Chris

 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
 Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

 Hi:

 I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the
 Pico text
 editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to
 work
 with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

 Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have
 the
 same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
 attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

 Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be willing
 to
 look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

 Many thanks.

 Chris


 ****************************************
 Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
 of the Blind in
 your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
 with this.

 ----------------------------------------
 Christopher Gray, Executive Director
 Missouri Council of the Blind

 5453 Chippewa
 St. Louis, MO 63109
 Phone:     (314) 832-7172
 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
 Fax:       (314) 832-7796

 Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
 Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
 Chris and Don.
 Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
 Pacific
 Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
 Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
 Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
 You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
 Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.











****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Arlene
 

Not sure if they made any developments for windows. I know it is or still is used for Linux.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

 

How well does Alpine work for Windows?  I believe I tried it and its

predecessor Pine and it wasn't very accessible.

 

 

 

On 2/7/2020 12:31 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:

> Hi and thanks for the response.

> 

> I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers. 

> Alpine version is 2.20.

> 

> I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a

> terminal program.

> 

> Chris

> 

> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

> 

>> What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are

>> you using it through a terminal program or native?

>> 

>> 

>> On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:

>>>  Hi:

>>> 

>>>  I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now,

>>> once last

>>>  June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of

>>> asking than

>>>  this list, just let me know that.

>>> 

>>>  I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to

>>>  diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and

>>>  Window-Eyes.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>>>  Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000

>>>  From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>

>>>  Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>  To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>  Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)

>>> 

>>>  Hello:

>>> 

>>>  I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related

>>>  discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows

>>> with

>>>  NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full

>>>  transition to NVDA.

>>> 

>>>  Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not

>>>  exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly

>>> works.

>>>  For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the

>>> text,

>>>  but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down

>>> line

>>>  by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after

>>>  moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at

>>> all.

>>> 

>>>  Thanks.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>>>  Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000

>>>  From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris@...>

>>>  Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>>  To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>  Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico

>>> 

>>>  Hi:

>>> 

>>>  I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the

>>>  Pico text

>>>  editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this

>>> software to

>>>  work

>>>  with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.

>>> 

>>>  Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs

>>> have

>>>  the

>>>  same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I

>>> haven't

>>>  attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.

>>> 

>>>  Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be

>>> willing

>>>  to

>>>  look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?

>>> 

>>>  Many thanks.

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>> 

>>>  ****************************************

>>>  Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

>>> Council

>>>  of the Blind in

>>>  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help

>>> you

>>>  with this.

>>> 

>>>  ----------------------------------------

>>>  Christopher Gray, Executive Director

>>>  Missouri Council of the Blind

>>> 

>>>  5453 Chippewa

>>>  St. Louis, MO 63109

>>>  Phone:     (314) 832-7172

>>>  Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

>>>  Fax:       (314) 832-7796

>>> 

>>>  Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

>>>  Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global

>>> Voice,

>>>  Chris and Don.

>>>  Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

>>>  Pacific

>>>  Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

>>>  Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

>>>  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

>>>  You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

>>>  Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> ****************************************

> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

> Council of the Blind in

> your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help

> you with this.

> 

> ----------------------------------------

> Christopher Gray, Executive Director

> Missouri Council of the Blind

> 

> 5453 Chippewa

> St. Louis, MO 63109

> Phone:     (314) 832-7172

> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

> Fax:       (314) 832-7796

> 

> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global

> Voice, Chris and Don.

> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

> Pacific

> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

> Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

> 

>

> 

 

--

They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.

They ask: "How Happy are You?"

I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 

 

 

 
Brian Vogel
 

The assertion that Windows ports are easily sourced, let alone actively maintained has already been refuted by others.  Your mission should be findings replacements.  It's that simple.

Command line text editor under Windows with screen reader support, when there are myriad other options?  It's not going to happen.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
Christopher Gray
 

Hi Ben:

I appreciate your willingness to help. I can probably send you the install software you need and will check on this, perhaps writing you off list if that's ok.

I don't think this is a hard job or an unreasonable request for this reason. Developers at both Virgo/Cobra and Window-Eyes did have to accommodate Alpine and Pico many years back. In both cases, the developers there told me this was a trivial fix/change and took less than an hour to implement.

Of course, things could be different today in NVDA's means of doing things. However, I still don't think it is unreasonable to ask that this at least be examined.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, ben via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi Chris,


i am not an NVDA developer, so I might be completely wrong, but I think this might be harder than you think to fix. The main problem you have is Pico and Alpine are hard to find online. At least I can't find Windows ports. Also, it depends if these programs are command line based as they are on Linux, or are they actual graphical versions. I have used Alpine and Nano under Linux, but it has been a while. If I can find the Windows versions, I will take a look and I will test them with a couple other screen readers.


I wish I could help more; you might have better luck filing an issue on GitHub.


Ben




****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Christopher Gray
 

As I said before, there is a Windows version.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:

You’d probably have to ask the developer to somehow develop a windows
version along with linix.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance

Patches pretty much relate to the Linux/Unix version, not the Windows
version.


Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Arlene via Groups.Io wrote:


Yes, I can’t remember it’s home page. If you google it, there’s a
frequently asked question page. Also there are new and old Patches  you
can

download to your Program Alpine.  If you can’t use it you can let the
developer know and he can help you. I googled the info last night after
you

asked on Wednesday. Due to a reason I had to google something else.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Christopher Gray
Sent: February 7, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] 3rd Request for Assistance
My answer to thkat is that Alpine and Pico are currentlym maintained.  If
help
from their developer(s) is needed, it would be given.
Chris
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian
Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 , Christopher Gray wrote:
I use two fairly old pieces of software: the Alpine email client; the
Pico
text editor.
The fact is that a lot of "fairly old pieces of software" were not
written with accessibility in mind at all, and if they are not being
maintained and updated, are very unlikely to become accessible with any
screen reader that does not already work with them.
Screen reader developers, and developers in general, have little enough
time to keep up with ongoing changes that they cannot ignore if they wish
to remain working with currently supported operating systems and
software.

Any expectation that they can, or should, reach back into the distant
past

for software no longer maintained, or even maintained but where the
developers of said software have done nothing to make it compatible with
screen readers, is unreasonable and unrealistic.
--
Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363
*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*
~ Madonna
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.
----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind
5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796
Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.



****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Christopher Gray
 

Alpine is extremely accessible under Windows. There are 2 or 3 settings you must change, otherwise it's excellent.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Ron Canazzi via Groups.Io wrote:

How well does Alpine work for Windows?  I believe I tried it and its predecessor Pine and it wasn't very accessible.



On 2/7/2020 12:31 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
Hi and thanks for the response.

I am using it on Windows 7 and Windows 10 on two different computers.
Alpine version is 2.20.

I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal
program.

Chris

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Tyler Spivey via Groups.Io wrote:

What version of alpine are you running, on what operating system? Are you using it through a terminal program or native?
On 2/7/2020 9:12 AM, Christopher Gray wrote:
 Hi:
 I've asked for some assistance about the issue below twice now, once last
 June, again Wednesday.  If there is a better list or means of asking than
 this list, just let me know that.
 I could be wrong but this really shouldn't be a difficult issue to
 diagnose. Alpine and Pico both worked quite well with Cobra and
 Window-Eyes.
 Chris
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 16:52:30 +0000
 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
 Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico (fwd)
 Hello:
 I brought up the issue below last June but aside from some related
 discussion never got anywhere about using this software on Windows with
 NVDA.  I really need some assistance with this issue to make a full
 transition to NVDA.
 Software is alpine for Windows and Pico, also for Windows. It is not
 exactly that the software doesn't work at all, but it only partly works.
 For example, in editing a message, I can usually get speech in the text,
 but there is no braille.  Sometimes while editing, when I move down line
 by line I get no text, but I do get text moving up line by line after
 moving down.  In the menu of messages, I can't see the messages at all.
 Thanks.
 Chris
 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:33:26 +0000
 From: Christopher Gray via Groups.Io <chris=moblind.org@groups.io>
 Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
 To: NVDA Mailing List <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
 Subject: [nvda] Alpine and Pico
 Hi:
 I use two fairly old pieces of software:  the Alpine email client; the
 Pico text
 editor.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to get this software to
 work
 with NVDA.  It only shows a blank screen for me.
 Pico is particularly portable and I'm betting that the two programs have
 the
 same screen issues since they were written by the same source.  I haven't
 attached it here but sending it via email should be very simple.
 Is there a way I can try to diagnose this?  Or, might somebody be willing
 to
 look at this who knows more about thwat they are doing?
 Many thanks.
 Chris
 ****************************************
 Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
 of the Blind in
 your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
 with this.
 ----------------------------------------
 Christopher Gray, Executive Director
 Missouri Council of the Blind
 5453 Chippewa
 St. Louis, MO 63109
 Phone:     (314) 832-7172
 Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
 Fax:       (314) 832-7796
 Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
 Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
 Chris and Don.
 Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
 Pacific
 Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
 Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
 Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
 You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
 Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone:     (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax:       (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Christopher Gray
 

Brian:

There are too many inaccuracies in your thinking on this issue. We're talking about a Windows-based program, not a command line program. You are confusilng Pine for Linux with Alpine for Windows.

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020, Brian Vogel via Groups.Io wrote:

The assertion that Windows ports are easily sourced, let alone actively maintained has already been refuted by others.  Your mission should be findings replacements.  It's that simple.

Command line text editor under Windows with screen reader support, when there are myriad other options?  It's not going to happen.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

~ Madonna


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
Brian Vogel
 

Christopher Gray wrote, at 12:32 PM today, " I invoke Alpine from the Windows command line and not through a terminal program."

Don't blame me if I take you at your word.

With this, I'm done.  If you want to continue to engage in putting good effort after bad, have at it.  Common sense dictates finding different products.  You can lead a horse to water . . .
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 
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