Topics

Donation Too nerve wracking


David Griffith
 

This may be  just a personal problem with my skills but I have avoided regular donating, as was my   previous practice with the last couple of NVDA  updates because of difficulties with the NVDA Donation page.

Today guilt took over as I downloaded the latest update to 19.3 and decided to bite the bullet and  try and donate again.

I am afraid that yet again the experience was yet again a bit nerve wracking.

For me the personal problem is that the default donations the page tries to funnel me towards are far too expensive for me. These high default options especially on a regular basis provide some anxiety.

 

Even  the other amount  field is unhelpfully filled with a $200 amount which I inadvertently nearly processed with my PayPal and was only then able to rescue from my one touch PayPal page with a rapid page closure.

Rattled I then tried to enter a measly $10 as a safe test amount only to realise that this time I was about to commit $10200 to NVDA Access.

 

In the end I  was able to retrieve the situation and only donate $10 which is less than I would normally donate but was based on my profound nervousness with the page.

It just seems to me that this page should be easy for everybody to use , no matter what their skill level, a simple safe process for people to donate whatever amount they feel comfortable in doing.

 

I am sure that most people , certainly on this list, will not share these problems and deny any difficulties but I wonder how true this is for generalised NVDA users across the globe.

 

This funnelling of people toward larger default payments may be worth it in the larger scheme  it generates more income I suppose but it does seem odd to me and has acted as a disincentive to donate personally.

 

David Griffith

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 


 

I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50 for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning. That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of the anxiety you experienced, at all.

Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs you in automatically to PayPal.


Damien Garwood
 

Hi David,
This actually sounds like a problem I'm getting with PayPal in general, when paying other people, transferring money to my bank etc. If NVAccess uses PayPal to power its donation form, chances are that's probably why. Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/02/2020 04:13 pm, David Griffith wrote:
This may be just a personal problem with my skills but I have avoided regular donating, as was my previous practice with the last couple of NVDA updates because of difficulties with the NVDA Donation page.
Today guilt took over as I downloaded the latest update to 19.3 and decided to bite the bullet andtry and donate again.
I am afraid that yet again the experience was yet again a bit nerve wracking.
For me the personal problem is that the default donations the page tries to funnel me towards are far too expensive for me. These high default options especially on a regular basis provide some anxiety.
Even the other amountfield is unhelpfully filled with a $200 amount which I inadvertently nearly processed with my PayPal and was only then able to rescue from my one touch PayPal page with a rapid page closure.
Rattled I then tried to enter a measly $10 as a safe test amount only to realise that this time I was about to commit $10200 to NVDA Access.
In the end Iwas able to retrieve the situation and only donate $10 which is less than I would normally donate but was based on my profound nervousness with the page.
It just seems to me that this page should be easy for everybody to use , no matter what their skill level, a simple safe process for people to donate whatever amount they feel comfortable in doing.
I am sure that most people , certainly on this list, will not share these problems and deny any difficulties but I wonder how true this is for generalised NVDA users across the globe.
This funnelling of people toward larger default payments may be worth it in the larger scheme it generates more income I suppose but it does seem odd to me and has acted as a disincentive to donate personally.
David Griffith
.


Damien Garwood
 

Hi Robert,
Yes, I always thought NVAccess had their own custom form for donating as well, but admittedly I haven't been able to donate in some time due to financial issues and so I didn't know if perhaps it had been changed. In that case, the only thing I can think is that something somewhere else is going straight to PayPal (that's the only thing I can think of where that kind of problem occurs). I could be wrong though...
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/02/2020 04:28 pm, Robert Kingett wrote:
I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50 for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning. That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of the anxiety you experienced, at all.
Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs you in automatically to PayPal.


Gene
 

Do you have problems with forms in general?  Do you have problems finding content on web pages in general?  such problems might be very helpful to discuss and such discussion might lead you to considerably more comfortable and more Internet use. 
 
However, such discussion should be done on the chat list. 
 
For now, and because this description might help others who wish to donate and also help with other forms, I'll describe how to work with this part of the form.  It is somewhat long but I hope those who have problems with forms read it.  it may be of important benefit when filling out forms in general.
 
These are all radio buttons.  It is standard in Windows screen-readers working on web pages to select the radio button you want with the space bar.  On an unfamiliar form, you shouldn’t assume anything.  You should down arrow, not tab, through the form in browse mode.  this is important because there is often information telling you something such as the format to use when writing information such as a date in an edit field. 
 
You must also pay attention to the order in which information is presented as you move down the page when dealing with things where there is a control and a description not on the same line.  for example, starting at the top of that part of the form, you see that the radio button is presented first, then below that, the amount.  You need to start at the top of the part of the form where the radio buttons are to find this out.  On another form, it might be text first, then radio button.  On some forms, when you move to the radio button, the text will be read automatically.  Starting at the top, and down arrowing three or four times, you will see that the pattern is radio button then on the next line the amount the radio button is for. 
 
I selected other since that is what you want.
 
There is one problem with the form.  it should be stated, before the form, that after you select the amount you want to donate or select other, when you follow the download button, a page will come up where you can enter your donation information. 
 
But the form uses standard controls and if you have trouble with this form, you may have trouble with many other forms or with places where you use controls to make a choice about something. 
 
Perhaps there should be a link before the form that says something like, if you have trouble filling out this form, follow this link for instructions.  Given the various levels of knowledge those who download NVDA have, that might save people a lot of trouble and it might increase the number of people who donate.  I'll write the instructions, if desired.
 
I'll end by saying that on familiar forms, you can take shortcuts such as tabbing.  But I advise against taking shortcuts on unfamiliar forms even if they look straightforward when you tab. 
Don't assume that there is nothing relevant such as text between fields you miss by tabbing.  In this form, for example, there is text between sections such as one off donation and monthly donation.  You won't see it if you tab.  obviously, you need to know whether you are making a one time donation or a monthly one. 
 
In his form, the order is first one time donations, then monthly donations.  So those who used the first set of radio buttons have made a one time contribution. 
 
Sighted people see everything in a form.  Why put yourself at a disadvantage by taking shortcuts?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 10:13 AM
Subject: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

This may be  just a personal problem with my skills but I have avoided regular donating, as was my   previous practice with the last couple of NVDA  updates because of difficulties with the NVDA Donation page.

Today guilt took over as I downloaded the latest update to 19.3 and decided to bite the bullet and  try and donate again.

I am afraid that yet again the experience was yet again a bit nerve wracking.

For me the personal problem is that the default donations the page tries to funnel me towards are far too expensive for me. These high default options especially on a regular basis provide some anxiety.

 

Even  the other amount  field is unhelpfully filled with a $200 amount which I inadvertently nearly processed with my PayPal and was only then able to rescue from my one touch PayPal page with a rapid page closure.

Rattled I then tried to enter a measly $10 as a safe test amount only to realise that this time I was about to commit $10200 to NVDA Access.

 

In the end I  was able to retrieve the situation and only donate $10 which is less than I would normally donate but was based on my profound nervousness with the page.

It just seems to me that this page should be easy for everybody to use , no matter what their skill level, a simple safe process for people to donate whatever amount they feel comfortable in doing.

 

I am sure that most people , certainly on this list, will not share these problems and deny any difficulties but I wonder how true this is for generalised NVDA users across the globe.

 

This funnelling of people toward larger default payments may be worth it in the larger scheme  it generates more income I suppose but it does seem odd to me and has acted as a disincentive to donate personally.

 

David Griffith

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 


Roger Stewart
 

I just tried to download NVDA. I checked the one off donation for $30 and it took me to a button saying download. No matter what I do to this button, it does nothing at all. Hitting enter, pressing space bar, or routing mouse to it and using left mouse click.  The page just sits there. This used to take me right to PayPal and after entering my password, it accepted my donation and took me right back to continue to download and that was all there was to it.  Don't know why the download button isn't working, but it isn't Hope this problem can be fixed. I was able to check for update to NVDA and I got it that way but I wanted to get the actual installer file and I currently cannot do this.
Roger

On 2/10/2020 10:40 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:
Hi Robert,
Yes, I always thought NVAccess had their own custom form for donating as well, but admittedly I haven't been able to donate in some time due to financial issues and so I didn't know if perhaps it had been changed. In that case, the only thing I can think is that something somewhere else is going straight to PayPal (that's the only thing I can think of where that kind of problem occurs). I could be wrong though...
Cheers,
Damien.

On 10/02/2020 04:28 pm, Robert Kingett wrote:
I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50 for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning. That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of the anxiety you experienced, at all.

Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs you in automatically to PayPal.


Gene
 

Have you made any changes such as using a script blocker?  I haven't tried, but you may have problems if scripts are blocked.  Are you using a different browser?  Have you tried more than one?
 
Gene

----- Original Message ------
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

I just tried to download NVDA. I checked the one off donation for $30
and it took me to a button saying download. No matter what I do to this
button, it does nothing at all. Hitting enter, pressing space bar, or
routing mouse to it and using left mouse click.  The page just sits
there. This used to take me right to PayPal and after entering my
password, it accepted my donation and took me right back to continue to
download and that was all there was to it.  Don't know why the download
button isn't working, but it isn't Hope this problem can be fixed. I was
able to check for update to NVDA and I got it that way but I wanted to
get the actual installer file and I currently cannot do this.
Roger








On 2/10/2020 10:40 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:
> Hi Robert,
> Yes, I always thought NVAccess had their own custom form for donating
> as well, but admittedly I haven't been able to donate in some time due
> to financial issues and so I didn't know if perhaps it had been
> changed. In that case, the only thing I can think is that something
> somewhere else is going straight to PayPal (that's the only thing I
> can think of where that kind of problem occurs). I could be wrong
> though...
> Cheers,
> Damien.
>
> On 10/02/2020 04:28 pm, Robert Kingett wrote:
>> I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the
>> custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50
>> for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or
>> increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd
>> remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning.
>> That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with
>> the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate
>> page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of
>> the anxiety you experienced, at all.
>>
>> Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually
>> approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs
>> you in automatically to PayPal.
>>
>>
>
>
>




Gene
 

I checked the problem.  The first time I used the download button a little earlier in the day, it worked.  When I checked again, it didn't.  I went to the site twice and it didn't either time.  That was when I had one of the donation selections selected.  When I selected the skip donation this time, the download button worked.  So the problem isn't with the download button.  Perhaps the download process is overloaded with people making donations and you can't be sent there now so nothing happens.  Whatever the case, the problem needs to be looked into.  If the form gets over loaded, then a message should be displayed saying to try again later. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Have you made any changes such as using a script blocker?  I haven't tried, but you may have problems if scripts are blocked.  Are you using a different browser?  Have you tried more than one?
 
Gene
----- Original Message ------
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

I just tried to download NVDA. I checked the one off donation for $30
and it took me to a button saying download. No matter what I do to this
button, it does nothing at all. Hitting enter, pressing space bar, or
routing mouse to it and using left mouse click.  The page just sits
there. This used to take me right to PayPal and after entering my
password, it accepted my donation and took me right back to continue to
download and that was all there was to it.  Don't know why the download
button isn't working, but it isn't Hope this problem can be fixed. I was
able to check for update to NVDA and I got it that way but I wanted to
get the actual installer file and I currently cannot do this.
Roger








On 2/10/2020 10:40 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:
> Hi Robert,
> Yes, I always thought NVAccess had their own custom form for donating
> as well, but admittedly I haven't been able to donate in some time due
> to financial issues and so I didn't know if perhaps it had been
> changed. In that case, the only thing I can think is that something
> somewhere else is going straight to PayPal (that's the only thing I
> can think of where that kind of problem occurs). I could be wrong
> though...
> Cheers,
> Damien.
>
> On 10/02/2020 04:28 pm, Robert Kingett wrote:
>> I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the
>> custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50
>> for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or
>> increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd
>> remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning.
>> That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with
>> the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate
>> page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of
>> the anxiety you experienced, at all.
>>
>> Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually
>> approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs
>> you in automatically to PayPal.
>>
>>
>
>
>




Gene
 

I just tried the download button again about ten minutes after my last check and it worked.  I think the problem is caused by the donation page being too busy to let new people use it at the time. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

I checked the problem.  The first time I used the download button a little earlier in the day, it worked.  When I checked again, it didn't.  I went to the site twice and it didn't either time.  That was when I had one of the donation selections selected.  When I selected the skip donation this time, the download button worked.  So the problem isn't with the download button.  Perhaps the download process is overloaded with people making donations and you can't be sent there now so nothing happens.  Whatever the case, the problem needs to be looked into.  If the form gets over loaded, then a message should be displayed saying to try again later. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Have you made any changes such as using a script blocker?  I haven't tried, but you may have problems if scripts are blocked.  Are you using a different browser?  Have you tried more than one?
 
Gene
----- Original Message ------
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

I just tried to download NVDA. I checked the one off donation for $30
and it took me to a button saying download. No matter what I do to this
button, it does nothing at all. Hitting enter, pressing space bar, or
routing mouse to it and using left mouse click.  The page just sits
there. This used to take me right to PayPal and after entering my
password, it accepted my donation and took me right back to continue to
download and that was all there was to it.  Don't know why the download
button isn't working, but it isn't Hope this problem can be fixed. I was
able to check for update to NVDA and I got it that way but I wanted to
get the actual installer file and I currently cannot do this.
Roger








On 2/10/2020 10:40 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:
> Hi Robert,
> Yes, I always thought NVAccess had their own custom form for donating
> as well, but admittedly I haven't been able to donate in some time due
> to financial issues and so I didn't know if perhaps it had been
> changed. In that case, the only thing I can think is that something
> somewhere else is going straight to PayPal (that's the only thing I
> can think of where that kind of problem occurs). I could be wrong
> though...
> Cheers,
> Damien.
>
> On 10/02/2020 04:28 pm, Robert Kingett wrote:
>> I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the
>> custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50
>> for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or
>> increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd
>> remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning.
>> That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with
>> the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate
>> page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of
>> the anxiety you experienced, at all.
>>
>> Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually
>> approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs
>> you in automatically to PayPal.
>>
>>
>
>
>




Pascal Lambert
 

I followed the link to the page provided by Quinten.  I used the arrows and it did not budge.  Please do not assume, I did not experience any anxiety and I was trying to make a one time donation.  Please be kind in the way you respond.

Blessings

Pascal

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Kingett
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

I honestly have no idea what donate page you're going to, but the custom fields on the NV Access donate page has a default value of 50 for the monthly option. You can use your arrow keys to decrease or increase the amount. The buttons are clearly labeled, although, I'd remove that uses, donate a, fabulous, adjective at the beginning. That's my only gripe with it. The edit fields can be controlled with the up and down arrow keys, so I have absolutely no idea what donate page you're visiting. You're right, I didn't experience a fraction of the anxiety you experienced, at all.

Also, even with 1 touch login on PayPal, you still have to manually approve the purchase. It doesn't happen automatically. It just logs you in automatically to PayPal.


 

Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some point. But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.


Tyler Spivey
 

That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the edit box before it.


On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:

Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some point. But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.


David Griffith
 

I hesitated to make the first comment  as I knew it would attract criticism of the skill level of people encountering difficulties of this kind on the site.

 

However for a final comment I would still say that presenting skill challenges for people on a donation page seems an odd approach, even if pointing this out draws some disparaging remarks  on skill levels of a list of this kind.

 

I will hold on any further comment now.

David Griffith

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: 10 February 2020 18:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the edit box before it.

 

On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:

Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some point. But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.


Gene
 

Please consider the context and see what message is below the one you are responding to.  the comment had nothing to do with your post.  it was directed to another list member who made a comment about the form.
 
In addition, it isn't a question of presenting skill challenges.  If someone has problems working with radio buttons, they will have problems on all sorts of forms where they are used. 
 
There is nothing on the form that is exceptionally difficult.  In my opinion, the answer is not to dumb down the form.  The answer is to present a link with instructions for those who don't know how to work with the form.  Doing everything for people leaves them unable to do anything.  Teaching people increases confidence, increases their ability to do more, and will help them in the future.  And that's why I sent a teaching message.
 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

I hesitated to make the first comment  as I knew it would attract criticism of the skill level of people encountering difficulties of this kind on the site.

 

However for a final comment I would still say that presenting skill challenges for people on a donation page seems an odd approach, even if pointing this out draws some disparaging remarks  on skill levels of a list of this kind.

 

I will hold on any further comment now.

David Griffith

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: 10 February 2020 18:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the edit box before it.

 

On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:

Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some point. But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.


Jackie
 

Actually, the form IMO, is a little bit difficult to use, & I am a
professional at this, both as a website hosting provider, designer,
developer, & technician as well as a computer repair technician
trained in computer forensics. So if you want to comment that it's a
question of skill level in my case, then fire away, but... The problem
is that once you pick a custom donation, go to paypal, & donate,
you're not returned to a page w/a download link/button. What I do is
just close everything out, go back to the check for updates page in
the NVDA help menu, then skip the donation & download & install the
update. But it is a little clunky, & I could see where some could find
the whole process confusing. If nothing else, it takes far more time
than it should.

I also think that some folks would find an edit field as opposed to a
spin edit field as a part of the fieldset for the custom donation
radio button less confusing. I understand the number can just be
edited, (or spun, according to operator preference), but that's not
something everyone understands.

On 2/10/20, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Please consider the context and see what message is below the one you are
responding to. the comment had nothing to do with your post. it was
directed to another list member who made a comment about the form.

In addition, it isn't a question of presenting skill challenges. If someone
has problems working with radio buttons, they will have problems on all
sorts of forms where they are used.

There is nothing on the form that is exceptionally difficult. In my
opinion, the answer is not to dumb down the form. The answer is to present
a link with instructions for those who don't know how to work with the form.
Doing everything for people leaves them unable to do anything. Teaching
people increases confidence, increases their ability to do more, and will
help them in the future. And that's why I sent a teaching message.


Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David Griffith
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking


I hesitated to make the first comment as I knew it would attract criticism
of the skill level of people encountering difficulties of this kind on the
site.



However for a final comment I would still say that presenting skill
challenges for people on a donation page seems an odd approach, even if
pointing this out draws some disparaging remarks on skill levels of a list
of this kind.



I will hold on any further comment now.

David Griffith

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: 10 February 2020 18:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking



That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the
custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the edit
box before it.



On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:

Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to
PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some point.
But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After
adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.





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Gene
 

You are talking about implementation.  You didn't comment on the process of filling out the actual fields of the form, which is what I was discussing.  If implementation is poor, that should be addressed. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Actually, the form IMO, is a little bit difficult to use, & I am a
professional at this, both as a website hosting provider, designer,
developer, & technician as well as a computer repair technician
trained in computer forensics. So if you want to comment that it's a
question of skill level in my case, then fire away, but... The problem
is that once you pick a custom donation, go to paypal, & donate,
you're not returned to a page w/a download link/button. What I do is
just close everything out, go back to the check for updates page in
the NVDA help menu, then skip the donation & download & install the
update. But it is a little clunky, & I could see where some could find
the whole process confusing. If nothing else, it takes far more time
than it should.

I also think that some folks would find an edit field as opposed to a
spin edit field as a part of the fieldset for the custom donation
radio button less confusing. I understand the number can just be
edited, (or spun, according to operator preference), but that's not
something everyone understands.

On 2/10/20, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Please consider the context and see what message is below the one you are
> responding to.  the comment had nothing to do with your post.  it was
> directed to another list member who made a comment about the form.
>
> In addition, it isn't a question of presenting skill challenges.  If someone
> has problems working with radio buttons, they will have problems on all
> sorts of forms where they are used.
>
> There is nothing on the form that is exceptionally difficult.  In my
> opinion, the answer is not to dumb down the form.  The answer is to present
> a link with instructions for those who don't know how to work with the form.
>  Doing everything for people leaves them unable to do anything.  Teaching
> people increases confidence, increases their ability to do more, and will
> help them in the future.  And that's why I sent a teaching message.
>
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: David Griffith
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:27 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking
>
>
> I hesitated to make the first comment  as I knew it would attract criticism
> of the skill level of people encountering difficulties of this kind on the
> site.
>
>
>
> However for a final comment I would still say that presenting skill
> challenges for people on a donation page seems an odd approach, even if
> pointing this out draws some disparaging remarks  on skill levels of a list
> of this kind.
>
>
>
> I will hold on any further comment now.
>
> David Griffith
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
> Sent: 10 February 2020 18:35
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking
>
>
>
> That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the
> custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the edit
> box before it.
>
>
>
> On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:
>
>   Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to
> PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some point.
> But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After
> adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Jackie
 

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at
least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

On 2/10/20, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
You are talking about implementation. You didn't comment on the process of
filling out the actual fields of the form, which is what I was discussing.
If implementation is poor, that should be addressed.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jackie
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking


Actually, the form IMO, is a little bit difficult to use, & I am a
professional at this, both as a website hosting provider, designer,
developer, & technician as well as a computer repair technician
trained in computer forensics. So if you want to comment that it's a
question of skill level in my case, then fire away, but... The problem
is that once you pick a custom donation, go to paypal, & donate,
you're not returned to a page w/a download link/button. What I do is
just close everything out, go back to the check for updates page in
the NVDA help menu, then skip the donation & download & install the
update. But it is a little clunky, & I could see where some could find
the whole process confusing. If nothing else, it takes far more time
than it should.

I also think that some folks would find an edit field as opposed to a
spin edit field as a part of the fieldset for the custom donation
radio button less confusing. I understand the number can just be
edited, (or spun, according to operator preference), but that's not
something everyone understands.

On 2/10/20, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Please consider the context and see what message is below the one you are
responding to. the comment had nothing to do with your post. it was
directed to another list member who made a comment about the form.

In addition, it isn't a question of presenting skill challenges. If
someone
has problems working with radio buttons, they will have problems on all
sorts of forms where they are used.

There is nothing on the form that is exceptionally difficult. In my
opinion, the answer is not to dumb down the form. The answer is to
present
a link with instructions for those who don't know how to work with the
form.
Doing everything for people leaves them unable to do anything. Teaching
people increases confidence, increases their ability to do more, and will
help them in the future. And that's why I sent a teaching message.


Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David Griffith
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking


I hesitated to make the first comment as I knew it would attract
criticism
of the skill level of people encountering difficulties of this kind on
the
site.



However for a final comment I would still say that presenting skill
challenges for people on a donation page seems an odd approach, even if
pointing this out draws some disparaging remarks on skill levels of a
list
of this kind.



I will hold on any further comment now.

David Griffith

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: 10 February 2020 18:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking



That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the
custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the
edit
box before it.



On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:

Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to
PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some
point.
But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After
adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.






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On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:
The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.
And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Jackie
 

Precisely, especially for a *donation* page. That is the sort of thing
you wanna make easy peezy lemon squeezy.

On 2/10/20, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:


The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at
least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.
And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the
absolute kiss of death.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.*

~ Madonna



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Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
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Gene
 

I doubt that that is generally true, based on my observation of discussions and comments on lists over a long time.  The message that started the thread was about actually filling out the form and that is what I and others concentrated on.  If implementation problems exist, they should be corrected, but I don't think that in general, when such discussions come up, implementation is the problem.  In this specific procedure, there may be such problems and it is important that they be pointed out, but almost always, when I see people discuss problems working with forms, it is either because it is actually inaccessible or unusable, or because those having problems don't know how to fill out forms effectively. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at
least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

On 2/10/20, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> You are talking about implementation.  You didn't comment on the process of
> filling out the actual fields of the form, which is what I was discussing.
> If implementation is poor, that should be addressed.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jackie
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:09 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking
>
>
> Actually, the form IMO, is a little bit difficult to use, & I am a
> professional at this, both as a website hosting provider, designer,
> developer, & technician as well as a computer repair technician
> trained in computer forensics. So if you want to comment that it's a
> question of skill level in my case, then fire away, but... The problem
> is that once you pick a custom donation, go to paypal, & donate,
> you're not returned to a page w/a download link/button. What I do is
> just close everything out, go back to the check for updates page in
> the NVDA help menu, then skip the donation & download & install the
> update. But it is a little clunky, & I could see where some could find
> the whole process confusing. If nothing else, it takes far more time
> than it should.
>
> I also think that some folks would find an edit field as opposed to a
> spin edit field as a part of the fieldset for the custom donation
> radio button less confusing. I understand the number can just be
> edited, (or spun, according to operator preference), but that's not
> something everyone understands.
>
> On 2/10/20, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>> Please consider the context and see what message is below the one you are
>> responding to.  the comment had nothing to do with your post.  it was
>> directed to another list member who made a comment about the form.
>>
>> In addition, it isn't a question of presenting skill challenges.  If
>> someone
>> has problems working with radio buttons, they will have problems on all
>> sorts of forms where they are used.
>>
>> There is nothing on the form that is exceptionally difficult.  In my
>> opinion, the answer is not to dumb down the form.  The answer is to
>> present
>> a link with instructions for those who don't know how to work with the
>> form.
>>  Doing everything for people leaves them unable to do anything.  Teaching
>> people increases confidence, increases their ability to do more, and will
>> help them in the future.  And that's why I sent a teaching message.
>>
>>
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: David Griffith
>> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:27 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking
>>
>>
>> I hesitated to make the first comment  as I knew it would attract
>> criticism
>> of the skill level of people encountering difficulties of this kind on
>> the
>> site.
>>
>>
>>
>> However for a final comment I would still say that presenting skill
>> challenges for people on a donation page seems an odd approach, even if
>> pointing this out draws some disparaging remarks  on skill levels of a
>> list
>> of this kind.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will hold on any further comment now.
>>
>> David Griffith
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
>> Sent: 10 February 2020 18:35
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking
>>
>>
>>
>> That's simply because you don't understand how it works. Of course the
>> custom donation button is going to do that, because you left 200 in the
>> edit
>> box before it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/10/2020 10:27 AM, Robert Kingett wrote:
>>
>>   Unfortunately, the one time custom donation button leads straight to
>> PayPal with a $200 default value. NV Access should fix that at some
>> point.
>> But the bit I said about the recurring donations still stands. After
>> adjusting the value via the keyboard, that gets entered into PayPal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
> wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
> visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
> & check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com
>
>
>
>
>
>


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