Topics

jaws & NVDA in combination

Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...>
 

Hi everyone, I’m not sure where I should be asking this question, here on the NVDA list or the jaws list.  Please forgive me if I’m wrong in asking here.  Sometimes I use jaws & NVDA simoltaniously. The reason for this is I use NVDA to read in my native tongue, and jaws to read in English.  Let’s say I’m in a webpage reading with jaws, and I need to switch to NVDA  I click insert plus s to turn off speech in jaws and then I turn on NVDA with control alt n.  this is great I do what I need to do with nvda. The problem is when I want to go back to jaws I axially half to exit NVDA because the muting NVDA and clicking insert s to turn jaws speech back on doesn’t work when running NVDA. Any ideas how I can solve this problem?

Thanks for any responses

Regards

Zoe

mk360
 

You can change the insert s key to other in NVDA.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...> wrote:

Hi everyone, I’m not sure where I should be asking this question, here on the NVDA list or the jaws list.  Please forgive me if I’m wrong in asking here.  Sometimes I use jaws & NVDA simoltaniously. The reason for this is I use NVDA to read in my native tongue, and jaws to read in English.  Let’s say I’m in a webpage reading with jaws, and I need to switch to NVDA  I click insert plus s to turn off speech in jaws and then I turn on NVDA with control alt n.  this is great I do what I need to do with nvda. The problem is when I want to go back to jaws I axially half to exit NVDA because the muting NVDA and clicking insert s to turn jaws speech back on doesn’t work when running NVDA. Any ideas how I can solve this problem?

Thanks for any responses

Regards

Zoe


 

Zoe,

         Has someone customized your JAWS installation as far as keystrokes go in some way?  The typical keystroke set to toggle speech on/off in JAWS (at least in the versions I've been tutoring, which goes back to JAWS 14) is INS+SPACEBAR, followed by S  (substitute CAPS LOCK for INS if you're using laptop keyboard layout) and I've never had INS+S toggle speech in JAWS (but that's the toggle [or switcher, in default mode] in NVDA).

         I do, however, use the NoBeepsSpeechMode add-on in NVDA so that INS+S is a true toggle on/off for speech rather than a three-way switcher.

         Another option would be trying the "Pass Key Through" command in either JAWS [INS+3 on the number row] or NVDA [NVDA+F2], depending on which needs to be ignoring the next keystroke and passing it along to the other, before you hit the INS+S toggle.  I imagine order of processing precedence will be determined by which screen reader has focus at that moment, JAWS versus NVDA, but you'd have to play with this technique to test that out.

Brian

Chris
 

hi,

does not NVDA+S not work for yu in NVDA?


On 07/03/2016 15:58, mk360 wrote:
You can change the insert s key to other in NVDA.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...> wrote:

Hi everyone, I’m not sure where I should be asking this question, here on the NVDA list or the jaws list.  Please forgive me if I’m wrong in asking here.  Sometimes I use jaws & NVDA simoltaniously. The reason for this is I use NVDA to read in my native tongue, and jaws to read in English.  Let’s say I’m in a webpage reading with jaws, and I need to switch to NVDA  I click insert plus s to turn off speech in jaws and then I turn on NVDA with control alt n.  this is great I do what I need to do with nvda. The problem is when I want to go back to jaws I axially half to exit NVDA because the muting NVDA and clicking insert s to turn jaws speech back on doesn’t work when running NVDA. Any ideas how I can solve this problem?

Thanks for any responses

Regards

Zoe



Kyle Borah
 

I would ask why don’t you just use NVDA to read in English as well? NVDA reads perfectly good English.

 

Kyle

 

From: Zoe Fiogkos [mailto:fiogkos@...]
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:39 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination

 

Hi everyone, I’m not sure where I should be asking this question, here on the NVDA list or the jaws list.  Please forgive me if I’m wrong in asking here.  Sometimes I use jaws & NVDA simoltaniously. The reason for this is I use NVDA to read in my native tongue, and jaws to read in English.  Let’s say I’m in a webpage reading with jaws, and I need to switch to NVDA  I click insert plus s to turn off speech in jaws and then I turn on NVDA with control alt n.  this is great I do what I need to do with nvda. The problem is when I want to go back to jaws I axially half to exit NVDA because the muting NVDA and clicking insert s to turn jaws speech back on doesn’t work when running NVDA. Any ideas how I can solve this problem?

Thanks for any responses

Regards

Zoe

 

Zoe,

         In addition to mk360's suggestion, which is a good one, you might also try the NVDA "Toggle application sleep mode on/off" keystroke to essentially suspend NVDA completely until/unless you hit the toggle keystroke sequence again.  It's NVDA+Shift+S if you're using the desktop keyboard layout and NVDA+Shift+z with the laptop layout.

         I've used this same sort of command with ZoomText with clients who use a screen reader and ZoomText and it makes deactivating ZoomText and reactivating it much faster than actually shutting the program down and restarting it.  I feel fairly certain that an application toggle probably exists for JAWS, too, but I can't seem to find that at the moment.

Brian

Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...>
 

Hi Brian the NVDA shift z did indeed announce sleep mode on but unfortunately jaws still doesn’t respond to insert space s to turn on speech, any other ideas?

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: March-07-16 11:09 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Re: jaws & NVDA in combination

 

Zoe,

         In addition to mk360's suggestion, which is a good one, you might also try the NVDA "Toggle application sleep mode on/off" keystroke to essentially suspend NVDA completely until/unless you hit the toggle keystroke sequence again.  It's NVDA+Shift+S if you're using the desktop keyboard layout and NVDA+Shift+z with the laptop layout.

         I've used this same sort of command with ZoomText with clients who use a screen reader and ZoomText and it makes deactivating ZoomText and reactivating it much faster than actually shutting the program down and restarting it.  I feel fairly certain that an application toggle probably exists for JAWS, too, but I can't seem to find that at the moment.

Brian

Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...>
 

Yes your right its insert space s I did send a second email correcting my self

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: March-07-16 11:02 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Re: jaws & NVDA in combination

 

Zoe,

         Has someone customized your JAWS installation as far as keystrokes go in some way?  The typical keystroke set to toggle speech on/off in JAWS (at least in the versions I've been tutoring, which goes back to JAWS 14) is INS+SPACEBAR, followed by S  (substitute CAPS LOCK for INS if you're using laptop keyboard layout) and I've never had INS+S toggle speech in JAWS (but that's the toggle [or switcher, in default mode] in NVDA).

         I do, however, use the NoBeepsSpeechMode add-on in NVDA so that INS+S is a true toggle on/off for speech rather than a three-way switcher.

         Another option would be trying the "Pass Key Through" command in either JAWS [INS+3 on the number row] or NVDA [NVDA+F2], depending on which needs to be ignoring the next keystroke and passing it along to the other, before you hit the INS+S toggle.  I imagine order of processing precedence will be determined by which screen reader has focus at that moment, JAWS versus NVDA, but you'd have to play with this technique to test that out.

Brian

 

Zoe,

       Scratch that NVDA application sleep mode suggestion.  I had failed to notice that it carries the proviso that it is in force only so long as you still have focus on the application in which you turned it on.  As soon as you go elsewhere NVDA voice output automatically turns on which, while very convenient in most circumstances, is not what you're looking for in this circumstance.

Brian

 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 08:18 am, Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...> wrote:
Hi Brian the NVDA shift z did indeed announce sleep mode on but unfortunately jaws still doesn’t respond to insert space s to turn on speech, any other ideas?

 Zoe,

            Just so you know, the correction e-mail you said you sent noting that INS+S should have been INS+Spacebar, followed by S, never seems to have made it through.

            What I'm wondering, and I have no way to test it, is whether the JAWS speech toggle command is not considered a single keystroke, but two, and if this has an impact?  I presume by now you've seen my message saying that the sleep mode won't really work well functionally simply because it's in force only while focus remains on the application you invoked it on.  The moment you move to another application NVDA speech comes back on.

            I shot an e-mail off to Freedom Scientific Technical Support a few minutes ago asking if JAWS had a "full suspend" toggle and, if so, what the keystroke sequence is.  I know how handy it is to be able to tell any of these programs to simply stop doing anything at all and pretend they're not running until told to come back.  I have a client whose vision is variable enough that he uses JAWS principally for long periods of activity but who will also use ZoomText to get really up close and personal with certain specific items.  It's wonderful to be able to tell ZoomText to "pretend you're not running" until/unless it's needed again rather than doing a complete exit and restart of ZoomText itself.  I'll let you know what I hear back from Freedom Scientific, and that generally takes at least one business day.

Brian

Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...>
 

Oh gee thank you so much for taking the time to research this for me.  If I could find a solution for this toggle between the 2 programs it would be fantastic.  Someone here on the list wanted to know why I just don’t use NVDA to read my English.  This is just a preference of mine.  Firstly I’m the type of person who likes to learn as much as possible in different areas, for example jaws, NVDA, the mac, even zoomtext, which I admit I haven’t played with in years just because I have a lot on my plate right now.  I love the difference between jaws and NVDA.  Using the codefactory vocalizer voice on NVDA to speak Greek when I need it too, and switching to jaws for English makes a nice contrast and keeps me using both programs and learning both of them as best as I can.

Again here’s hoping we find a solution thanks for trying.  Maybe the jaws list might have a solution like changing the insert space s to something else that doesn’t conflict with NVDA, what do you all think?  It’s obvious that there’s some sort of conflict there in the keystrokes with the 2 programs running together.

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: March-07-16 11:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Re: jaws & NVDA in combination

 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 08:18 am, Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...> wrote:

Hi Brian the NVDA shift z did indeed announce sleep mode on but unfortunately jaws still doesn’t respond to insert space s to turn on speech, any other ideas?

 Zoe,

            Just so you know, the correction e-mail you said you sent noting that INS+S should have been INS+Spacebar, followed by S, never seems to have made it through.

            What I'm wondering, and I have no way to test it, is whether the JAWS speech toggle command is not considered a single keystroke, but two, and if this has an impact?  I presume by now you've seen my message saying that the sleep mode won't really work well functionally simply because it's in force only while focus remains on the application you invoked it on.  The moment you move to another application NVDA speech comes back on.

            I shot an e-mail off to Freedom Scientific Technical Support a few minutes ago asking if JAWS had a "full suspend" toggle and, if so, what the keystroke sequence is.  I know how handy it is to be able to tell any of these programs to simply stop doing anything at all and pretend they're not running until told to come back.  I have a client whose vision is variable enough that he uses JAWS principally for long periods of activity but who will also use ZoomText to get really up close and personal with certain specific items.  It's wonderful to be able to tell ZoomText to "pretend you're not running" until/unless it's needed again rather than doing a complete exit and restart of ZoomText itself.  I'll let you know what I hear back from Freedom Scientific, and that generally takes at least one business day.

Brian

Chris Mullins
 

I think you will struggle to get this to work because as you suspect, you have keystroke conflicts.  Where identical keystrokes exist in each screen reader, The latest screen reader loaded will capture the keystroke unless you precede it with a pass through keystroke.  In the scenario where you load Jaws first then NVDA, if you silence NVDA speech output, so as to hear Jaws speaking, any other keystrokes will still be picked up by NVDA unless passed through.  As Brian suggested, there needs to be  a sort of background mode whereby all keystrokes are passed through except the one that brings the screen reader back into the foreground.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: Zoe Fiogkos [mailto:fiogkos@...]
Sent: 07 March 2016 16:59
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination

 

Oh gee thank you so much for taking the time to research this for me.  If I could find a solution for this toggle between the 2 programs it would be fantastic.  Someone here on the list wanted to know why I just don’t use NVDA to read my English.  This is just a preference of mine.  Firstly I’m the type of person who likes to learn as much as possible in different areas, for example jaws, NVDA, the mac, even zoomtext, which I admit I haven’t played with in years just because I have a lot on my plate right now.  I love the difference between jaws and NVDA.  Using the codefactory vocalizer voice on NVDA to speak Greek when I need it too, and switching to jaws for English makes a nice contrast and keeps me using both programs and learning both of them as best as I can.

Again here’s hoping we find a solution thanks for trying.  Maybe the jaws list might have a solution like changing the insert space s to something else that doesn’t conflict with NVDA, what do you all think?  It’s obvious that there’s some sort of conflict there in the keystrokes with the 2 programs running together.

 

 

From: Brian Vogel [mailto:britechguy@...]
Sent: March-07-16 11:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Re: jaws & NVDA in combination

 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 08:18 am, Zoe Fiogkos <fiogkos@...> wrote:

Hi Brian the NVDA shift z did indeed announce sleep mode on but unfortunately jaws still doesn’t respond to insert space s to turn on speech, any other ideas?

 Zoe,

            Just so you know, the correction e-mail you said you sent noting that INS+S should have been INS+Spacebar, followed by S, never seems to have made it through.

            What I'm wondering, and I have no way to test it, is whether the JAWS speech toggle command is not considered a single keystroke, but two, and if this has an impact?  I presume by now you've seen my message saying that the sleep mode won't really work well functionally simply because it's in force only while focus remains on the application you invoked it on.  The moment you move to another application NVDA speech comes back on.

            I shot an e-mail off to Freedom Scientific Technical Support a few minutes ago asking if JAWS had a "full suspend" toggle and, if so, what the keystroke sequence is.  I know how handy it is to be able to tell any of these programs to simply stop doing anything at all and pretend they're not running until told to come back.  I have a client whose vision is variable enough that he uses JAWS principally for long periods of activity but who will also use ZoomText to get really up close and personal with certain specific items.  It's wonderful to be able to tell ZoomText to "pretend you're not running" until/unless it's needed again rather than doing a complete exit and restart of ZoomText itself.  I'll let you know what I hear back from Freedom Scientific, and that generally takes at least one business day.

Brian

Pete <emac00@...>
 

Hi

One way to do this is create two windows short cuts assigning hot keys to them. One for nvda with command line switch to silence speech and create another hot key short cut key combo to silence speech in jaws sorry, you would have to make 4 short cuts, 2 for jaws and 2 for nvda. One of each to silence speech and to turn speech back on unless just exiting and starting the screen readers is what you want to do. That is if both jaws and nvda accept command line switches for the options you are looking for. By using windows shortcuts with hot keys you would not need to say be in the silenced nvda window to issue the nvda turn on speech hot key combo and same would apply for jaws.
Pete

Pete <emac00@...>
 

Hi Z
I use both jaws and nvda at the same time some times because nvda reads some things jaws wont read. I also use window eyes with nvda for the same reason. Some times I'll start all 3 of them to find out witch screen reader reads the most. Kind of funny with all 3 of them talking some times.
Pete

marvin kotler
 

Good evening list. Running windows xp and jaws15 and nvda 16.1. I cannot use them in combination, but one at a time. Nevertheless, I do have a problem I hope someone can help me out with. At the moment, running a machine with windowx xp, jaws 15 and nvda 16.1. The problem I am faced with is i cannot get rid of the content advisor so consequently, I cannot use internet explorer. I never used content advisor in contrary to what the computer says. Any help getting rid of it so I can use internet explorer again would be appreciated; thanks in advance.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <emac00@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination



Hi Z
I use both jaws and nvda at the same time some times because nvda reads some things jaws wont read. I also use window eyes with nvda for the same reason. Some times I'll start all 3 of them to find out witch screen reader reads the most. Kind of funny with all 3 of them talking some times.
Pete


Pranav Lal
 

Hi Zoe,

 

Your best option is to load and unload screen readers as required. Create two shortcuts on your desktop, one for jaws and one for NVDA. When you need jaws, load it, remembering to unload NVDA. If you need NVDA, load it into memory, remembering to quit jaws before that.

 

This can be automated quite easily using python or some other language.

 

Pranav

Gene
 

I'm not sure how to correct your problem.  Try issuing the command alt t then type o.
You should now be in options.
Shift tab once.
Right arrow until you get to content then look through the dialog. 
 
You may or may not find a way to correct the problem.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination

Good evening list.  Running windows xp  and jaws15 and nvda 16.1.  I cannot
use them in combination, but one at a time.  Nevertheless, I do have a
problem I hope someone can help me out with.  At the moment, running a
machine with windowx xp, jaws 15 and nvda 16.1.  The problem I am faced with
is i cannot get rid of the content advisor so consequently, I cannot use
internet explorer.  I never used content advisor in contrary to what the
computer says.  Any help getting rid of it so I can use internet explorer
again would be appreciated; thanks in advance.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <emac00@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination


>
>   Hi  Z
>   I use both jaws and nvda at the same time some times because nvda reads
> some things jaws wont read.  I also use window eyes with nvda for the same
> reason.  Some times I'll start all 3 of them to find out witch screen
> reader reads the most.  Kind of funny with all 3 of them talking some
> times.
>   Pete
>
>
>
>



Arlene
 

Hi, I hope I'm lying! I don’t think if you are using xp you can use IE again! I say this because IE has changed its code so I'm not sure if you can use it as you used to during the xp days! Many sites are not as accessible as it was during the xp days. If you are still using xp be warned you may have to end up using firefox. I hope I'm lying! I had a friend who had a laptop with vista. She said that some of the sites weren't accessible because she had IE nine. She upgraded it to windows 7. It works much better that's why I said what I said using xp now may be not so good with IE 8.

-----Original Message-----
From: marvin kotler [mailto:m.kotler53@...]
Sent: March-07-16 4:00 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination

Good evening list. Running windows xp and jaws15 and nvda 16.1. I cannot
use them in combination, but one at a time. Nevertheless, I do have a
problem I hope someone can help me out with. At the moment, running a
machine with windowx xp, jaws 15 and nvda 16.1. The problem I am faced with
is i cannot get rid of the content advisor so consequently, I cannot use
internet explorer. I never used content advisor in contrary to what the
computer says. Any help getting rid of it so I can use internet explorer
again would be appreciated; thanks in advance.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <emac00@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination



Hi Z
I use both jaws and nvda at the same time some times because nvda reads
some things jaws wont read. I also use window eyes with nvda for the same
reason. Some times I'll start all 3 of them to find out witch screen
reader reads the most. Kind of funny with all 3 of them talking some
times.
Pete



Gene
 

Increasingly sites are having problems when used with IE8.  This has nothing to do with Windows XP.  It is because an archaic version of Internet Explorer is being used and you can't upgrade it if you use XP.  If you still used IE8 with Windows 7, you would have a lot of problems with many sites as well.  But this has nothing to do with the content advisor.  They are completely separate issues.
 
Gene

From: Arlene
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination

Hi, I hope I'm lying! I don’t think if you are using xp you can use IE again! I say this because IE has changed its code so I'm not sure if you can use it as you used to during the xp days!  Many sites are not as accessible as it was during the xp days.  If you are still using xp be warned you may have to end up using firefox.  I hope I'm lying! I had a friend who had a laptop with vista. She said that some of the sites weren't accessible because she had IE nine.  She upgraded it to windows 7.  It works much better that's why I said what I said using xp now may be not so good with IE 8.

-----Original Message-----
From: marvin kotler [mailto:m.kotler53@...]
Sent: March-07-16 4:00 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination

Good evening list.  Running windows xp  and jaws15 and nvda 16.1.  I cannot
use them in combination, but one at a time.  Nevertheless, I do have a
problem I hope someone can help me out with.  At the moment, running a
machine with windowx xp, jaws 15 and nvda 16.1.  The problem I am faced with
is i cannot get rid of the content advisor so consequently, I cannot use
internet explorer.  I never used content advisor in contrary to what the
computer says.  Any help getting rid of it so I can use internet explorer
again would be appreciated; thanks in advance.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <emac00@...>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] jaws & NVDA in combination


>
>   Hi  Z
>   I use both jaws and nvda at the same time some times because nvda reads
> some things jaws wont read.  I also use window eyes with nvda for the same
> reason.  Some times I'll start all 3 of them to find out witch screen
> reader reads the most.  Kind of funny with all 3 of them talking some
> times.
>   Pete
>
>
>
>







Kevin Cussick
 

You really would be better to quit jfw use nvda then if you need to reverse do it you shouldn't really run 2 screen readers at the same time it wouldn't really take much effort for you to do this.

On 07/03/2016 15:38, Zoe Fiogkos wrote:
Hi everyone, I’m not sure where I should be asking this question, here
on the NVDA list or the jaws list.Please forgive me if I’m wrong in
asking here.Sometimes I use jaws & NVDA simoltaniously. The reason for
this is I use NVDA to read in my native tongue, and jaws to read in
English.Let’s say I’m in a webpage reading with jaws, and I need to
switch to NVDA I click insert plus s to turn off speech in jaws and then
I turn on NVDA with control alt n.this is great I do what I need to do
with nvda. The problem is when I want to go back to jaws I axially half
to exit NVDA because the muting NVDA and clicking insert s to turn jaws
speech back on doesn’t work when running NVDA. Any ideas how I can solve
this problem?

Thanks for any responses

Regards

Zoe