locked Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
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Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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Hi, As a follow-up: I know that some of you will try to ask other developers offlist about Windows XP support after learning that I will say no. I would like to seriously ask that you DO NOT DO THAT ANYMORE! Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:02 PM To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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hi joseph.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
as i mentioned in my emails, i only need two or three fixed in newer versions of nvda for backporting to the supported versions of nvda on xp. and i promise that my request does not cause nvda crashing or unresponsiveness in any version of windows! my requests are only specific for firefox and contains important fixes which i am sure benefits everyone.
On 3/23/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers, --
By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali
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Hi,
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I said, NO! Cheers, Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:01 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period hi joseph. as i mentioned in my emails, i only need two or three fixed in newer versions of nvda for backporting to the supported versions of nvda on xp. and i promise that my request does not cause nvda crashing or unresponsiveness in any version of windows! my requests are only specific for firefox and contains important fixes which i am sure benefits everyone. On 3/23/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote: Hello NVDA users and add-on developers, -- By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali
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On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 12:20 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
I said, NO!And very clearly, the first time. No one, and I do mean no one, is actively supporting XP on new software. There happens to be some that, by chance, remains compatible, but the vast majority is not and has not been for many years. Those who have to "make do" with XP must keep their own archive of "last compatible versions" for any software they use (in case they would ever need to reinstall) and make do with it. And I feel a great deal of sympathy for anyone trapped with XP and having to make do, but that doesn't change how the world of technology works. XP is not only dead as a daily driver OS, but it's proverbial remains have turned to dust. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Arlene
Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista. I think windows 7 is next.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: March 22, 2020 3:01 PM To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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Hi, The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now that we have fully moved onto Python 3. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:55 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista. I think windows 7 is next.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Joseph Lee
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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Jackie
It's unfair to ask developers to support unsupported software. They've
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
got enough on their plate to keep up w/new technologies, & often these are incompatible w/older ones. Not only so, but by extension, folks who ask this are basically asking developers to support software which both parties have been warned are a security risk, & ethically many developers don't feel they either can or want to do that.
On 3/23/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, --
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to: wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs & check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com
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It is generally a given, and always has been, that compatibility with non-supported Windows versions will not be maintained if any changes to upcoming code are required to achieve same (at least for the general public, there have been private, and very expensive, arrangements for extended support).
Most backward compatibility is the result of chance, not intent, when the OS that the application happens to be compatible with is out of support. It just depends on when the next "tectonic shift" in a given piece of code occurs to keep it current and able to keep moving forward. If a break occurs when that happens, then it's always been considered a normal part of the bargain. All software has a finite service life, whether OS or application. And it works in both directions as well. There are applications from virtually all pre-Windows 7 versions that won't run on 8 or later. 'Twas ever thus. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Gene
Joseph and all
You and others may want to comment, but I doubt that Windows 7 will be a
problem. Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows
7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at
least for quite a while. Of course, there are apps that are not usable in
Windows 7 and of course attachments related to them won’t be usable. But
it is my impression that Windows 7 is much more like Windows 10 than XP was to
Windows 7 and higher.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From:
Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons
and Windows XP support requests: no more, period Hi, The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now that we have fully moved onto Python 3. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Arlene
Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista. I think windows 7 is next.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Joseph Lee
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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Hi, Believe it or not, someone just published an article noting that there is already a zero-day exploit targeting unpatched Windows systems, including, unfortunately, Windows 7. This zero-day exploit relates to font handling by Adobe Font Manager, and I expect Microsoft to issue a patch to supported Windows releases; in case of Windows 7, no consumer-level patch will be issued through Windows Update unless it becomes too urgent to do so. With that in mind, as far as public relations goes, Windows 7 is unsupported. Microsoft does sell extended security updates (ESU’s) for Windows 7 but only to businesses. As for NVDA dropping support for Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2, not for a while unless it becomes hard to justify Windows 7 support (one of my upcoming summer projects will look into what it takes to support Windows 8.1 and higher and potential impact for users). Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 1:29 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Joseph and all
You and others may want to comment, but I doubt that Windows 7 will be a problem. Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while. Of course, there are apps that are not usable in Windows 7 and of course attachments related to them won’t be usable. But it is my impression that Windows 7 is much more like Windows 10 than XP was to Windows 7 and higher.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period
Hi, The exact statements from NV Access and developers back then were that using XP is now a security risk for many, and that people can use NVDA 2017.3 and old add-ons should they need to use XP and friends. As for my statement back then, it referred to my own add-ons. The statement I wrote below covers cases where a user would write to developers asking us to make certain new features available for old releases, which cannot be done, particularly now that we have fully moved onto Python 3. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Hi, I don’t remember the time you and NVDA developers did say xp support was no longer going to work for users who still want to continue using xp. You did say maybe 2 or 3 years ago you were going to no longer support xp and vista. I think windows 7 is next.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Joseph Lee
Hello NVDA users and add-on developers,
First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen to advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. Even if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please support each other.
Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, with many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement:
Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, “sorry, no more, period.” These include:
Most importantly, I will flatly say “no” if you ask me privately to ask NV Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I’m either maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends.
My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an individual developer to sink in. Note that I’m not speaking on behalf of other developers – others have their own policies regarding support for Windows XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last version compatible with Windows XP.
I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted folks to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a bold statement and say “no” to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support Windows XP, but didn’t announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close the doors to Windows XP support from my end – once again, this is an individual developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing that others will make statements on their own.
Thank you for understanding. Cheers, Joseph
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On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:28 PM, Gene wrote:
Whether and for how long it is supported, I suspect that Windows 7 is enough like Windows 10 that add-ons and NVDA will continue to work, at least for quite a while.I agree. But the time will come, probably later rather than sooner, when a necessary change to NVDA or a given add-on breaks backward compatibility with Windows 7 as a direct effect. And depending on when that happens to occur it could be very difficult to try to justify jumping through any hoops for maintaining backward compatibility. This pattern has occurred over and over again over the decades. To quote the song lyric, "History keeps repeating itself." -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Hi, All my add-ons (at least ones I’m maintaining) will support Windows 7 as long as NVDA supports it. Two exceptions: Enhanced Touch Gestures as it does not support anything earlier than Windows 8.1, and Windows 10 App Essentials which is tied to support lifecycle for consumers from Microsoft for each feature update; these two add-ons include routines to reject installation on Windows 7 systems. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 04:28 PM, Gene wrote:
I agree. But the time will come, probably later rather than sooner, when a necessary change to NVDA or a given add-on breaks backward compatibility with Windows 7 as a direct effect. And depending on when that happens to occur it could be very difficult to try to justify jumping through any hoops for maintaining backward compatibility. This pattern has occurred over and over again over the decades. Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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abdul muhamin
Hi, Zahra, why you don’t update your operating system and the NVDA to the latest versions to solve all your compatibility problems instead of asking support of the old software, you should use the new and fresh peace of software to avoid all the security risks
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: zahra
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 3:00 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons andWindows XP support requests: no more, period
hi joseph. as i mentioned in my emails, i only need two or three fixed in newer versions of nvda for backporting to the supported versions of nvda on xp. and i promise that my request does not cause nvda crashing or unresponsiveness in any version of windows! my requests are only specific for firefox and contains important fixes which i am sure benefits everyone.
On 3/23/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote: > Hello NVDA users and add-on developers, > > > > First, I would like to reiterate how important it is that everyone listen > to > advice from reputable sources regarding COVID-19, including public health > officials recommending folks to exercise social distancing for a while. > Even > if you do not feel sick, please help others by washing hands, practice > social distancing, and monitor the situation regarding the pandemic and > community spread. And since the NVDA community is a global movement, please > support each other. > > > > Onto the matter at hand: for several days I have received requests about > NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support. Requests have included making add-ons > compatible with Windows XP again, compatibility issues, and backporting > newer NVDA bug fixes and features to users of NVDA 2017.3, the last version > compatible with Windows XP. > > > > At the moment there is no community guidance on support for Windows XP, > with > many people asking others to upgrade to newer Windows releases. But as an > individual add-on author and a contributor to NVDA screen reader project, I > would like to take this time to make the following personal announcement: > > > > Effective April 15, 2020, if you ask me to do one or more of the following > for Windows XP users, the answer you will get is, "sorry, no more, period." > These include: > > > > * Making add-ons compatible with Windows XP, Server 2003, Vista, and > Server 2008 > * Fixing compatibility issues and non-working add-ons after you > knowingly install newer add-on releases on NVDA 2017.3 or earlier > * Backporting features and bug fixes from newer NVDA releases to NVDA > 2017.3 > * Maintaining a long-term support version of NVDA for Windows > XP/Server 2003/Vista/Server 2008 users > > > > Most importantly, I will flatly say "no" if you ask me privately to ask NV > Access and/or add-on developers about Windows XP support. Many features > introduced in newer NVDA releases cannot be backported for various reasons, > including risk of crashing NVDA (grammar error announcement, for example), > incompatibility with Python 2 (broader Unicode support, for example), > features that will not work properly with XP (screen curtain, for example), > support for apps no longer recommended for wider use (outlook Express, for > example), and broad changes that alters how add-ons work (speech refactor > and multi-category settings dialog, for example). Several add-on authors > have indicated reluctance to support XP, and in case of add-ons I'm either > maintaining or have passed onto the community, none of them support NVDA > 2019.2.1 or earlier, let alone Windows XP and friends. > > > > My personal statement above will not be in effect until April so that you > can help others going through COVID-19 and for my statement as an > individual > developer to sink in. Note that I'm not speaking on behalf of other > developers - others have their own policies regarding support for Windows > XP. NV Access does provide a download link for NVDA 2017.3, the last > version > compatible with Windows XP. > > > > I know my statement is a huge blow to many of you. As much as I wanted > folks > to understand that end of support means end of support, and I understand > that many of you cannot afford newer equipment and software releases > (including moving to newer Windows releases), I felt it is time to make a > bold statement and say "no" to Windows XP support. In the past, I did note > on various NVDA forums that my add-ons will not and does not support > Windows > XP, but didn't announce a statement like this then, hoping that folks will > understand the reality at last. But alas, it is time to officially close > the > doors to Windows XP support from my end - once again, this is an individual > developer saying this, not on behalf of the community at large, knowing > that > others will make statements on their own. > > > > Thank you for understanding. > > Cheers, > > Joseph > > > > >
-- By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali
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I don't understand why people are still running XP and then actually expecting long term support? Never has made sense to me, at all. If you want some discounted computers, check below. ComCast essentials offers refurbished computers to customers, especially during their free internet giveaway. Computers for the blind lets people buy refurbished computers. United Cerebral Palsy foundation gives refurbished computers to nursing homes and people within supportive living facilities. And, you can always go to best buy, filter by specs than by price, low to high, and then buy the results directly from the manufacturer.
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There may be several reasons why you can't upgrade to a modern system. However as well as the referbished jobs there are x lease business systems. Now, you may have a spaciffic reason why you can't upgrade. The university I do work for has a system brought with xp in mind. It cost a lot to install and its going to cost more to upgrade since the stuff they use just is not compatible with modern systems. So that means they have to get rid of and buy completely new hardware and software. There are probably many cases still like that. Everyone uses virtual machines. In addition though in this current climate said user is probably unable to get a new system at this time. Here in nz the covid monster has temperarily locked the country. From midnight we will be shutting down everything bar food stores. That means no eating out, and no computer anything. I just hope we don't have a failure in the month we are schedualed to be offline. Everyone needs to stay home or keep their bubble as small as they can. For me this means my immediate family and one other family menber who comes to the house every day for meals and I go to her place to and walk in a bit of bush by her house. Everyone is also locked to their community. We havn't entered final shutdown yet but we will.
On 24/03/2020 11:38 pm, Robert Kingett
wrote:
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On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 04:15 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Shaun, what follows is not aimed at you, personally, but at this argument, which seems to be made again and again and again. That argument is irrelevant, as everyone knows that there are exception conditions and, more importantly, if these systems are not in touch with cyberspace, and a lot of them aren't, the risks are very greatly diminished overall. The statement that XP should absolutely not be used as an OS is in the context of its use as a "daily driver" in contact with cyberspace. The same argument can be and is made for all out of support operating systems being used in this way. If you have the odd situation where any one of them is the OS for which custom software was written, and the whole system that uses it is air-gapped from cyberspace, then you need to consider upgrading as soon as is reasonably possible, but it's not desperately necessary in a lot of cases. I have an old XP system that hasn't been connected to the internet in many years that I've kept simply because there's a single program on it that's still very useful and where newer versions don't offer much more than what I typically need out of the ancient one. But I'd never, for a single second, think it's OK to hop on the internet and start surfing the web and doing my online banking. To do such would be very ill-advised (and, based on my professional experiences, falls into the, "You need to have your head examined!!," category). -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it. ~ Madonna
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Luke Robinett
Lol Who the heck is still using Windows XP in 2020? Time to upgrade, folks. It is riddled with security holes and Microsoft droppde support for it years ago
On Mar 22, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
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hi,
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thanks for your message. for several reasons, nvda 2017.3 is the best version and even 2017.2 works very well, and they work very perfect for my need. but, two or three items which are included in newer versions of nvda, i wish to backported to nvda 2017.3, not only for myself, but for the benefit of all users of this versions like me! if someone wants to help me in this regard, please email me! God bless you everyone!
On 3/24/20, abdul muhamin <abdulmuhamin600@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Zahra, why you don’t update your operating system and the NVDA to the --
By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali
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Hi,
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I told the community, but let me remind you again: NO, NO, NO! Yes, I'm angry, and yes, I mean it: please do not ask the community to email you about feature backports, as that will not happen. Sorry - case closed.
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 4:11 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Statement from Joseph Lee regarding NVDA add-ons and Windows XP support requests: no more, period hi, thanks for your message. for several reasons, nvda 2017.3 is the best version and even 2017.2 works very well, and they work very perfect for my need. but, two or three items which are included in newer versions of nvda, i wish to backported to nvda 2017.3, not only for myself, but for the benefit of all users of this versions like me! if someone wants to help me in this regard, please email me! God bless you everyone! On 3/24/20, abdul muhamin <abdulmuhamin600@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, Zahra, why you don’t update your operating system and the NVDA to -- By God, were I given all the seven heavens with all they contain in order that I may disobey God by depriving an ant from the husk of a grain of barley, I would not do it. imam ali
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