Topics

Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible


Rich DeSteno
 

I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites that is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened and read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone have a solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having great difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


--
Rich De Steno


Quentin Christensen
 

Have you got an example on a public site you can share please?


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:05 PM Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@...> wrote:
I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites that
is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The
combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened and
read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone have a
solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having great
difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


--
Rich De Steno






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Have you got a link to the page?


Gene nz

On 1/04/2020 5:05 pm, Rich DeSteno wrote:
I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites that is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA. The combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened and read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone have a solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having great difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


Rob Hudson
 

Did you try control down arrow?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich DeSteno" <axcruncher@...>
To: nvda@groups.io
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 00:05:14 -0400
Subject: [nvda] Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible

I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites that
is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA. The
combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
combinations I try. In past years, combo boxes were easily opened and
read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow. Does anyone have a
solution to reading these new combo boxes. I am currently having great
difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


--
Rich De Steno





Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Rich,

Give us an example of a page that has the combo boxes.

On 4/1/2020 12:05 AM, Rich DeSteno wrote:
I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites that is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA. The combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened and read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone have a solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having great difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Rich DeSteno
 

In response to these requests for an example of the type of combo boxes to which I refer, I have only encountered them recently on several music library sites where you must select from a list of various genres or key words.  These come up during the application process for uploading original material or offering music services after becoming a member.  Thus, I cannot direct anyone to a totally open public site. For example, airgigs.com is a site where you can offer music-related services for a fee.  You first sign up and then complete a form to offer the service.  It is that form that contains this inaccessible combo box.


On 4/1/2020 12:12 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Have you got an example on a public site you can share please?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:05 PM Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@...> wrote:
I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites that
is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The
combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened and
read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone have a
solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having great
difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


--
Rich De Steno






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

-- 
Rich De Steno


Howard Traxler
 

I noticed on Amazon, when I try to increment the quantity of an item I'm purchasing, I can get it all the way to 10.  But when I try to close the box (I've tried any key combination I can think of) it will not close and retain my choice.

Howard

On 3/31/2020 11:12 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Have you got an example on a public site you can share please?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:05 PM Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@... <mailto:axcruncher@...>> wrote:

I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites
that
is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The
combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened
and
read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone
have a
solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having
great
difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


--
Rich De Steno






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>


Gene
 

Have you tried just tabbing or manually going back to browse mode?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible
 
I noticed on Amazon, when I try to increment the quantity of an item I'm
purchasing, I can get it all the way to 10.  But when I try to close the
box (I've tried any key combination I can think of) it will not close
and retain my choice.

Howard


On 3/31/2020 11:12 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
> Have you got an example on a public site you can share please?
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:05 PM Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@...
> <mailto:axcruncher@...>> wrote:
>
>     I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites
>     that
>     is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The
>     combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
>     combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened
>     and
>     read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone
>     have a
>     solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having
>     great
>     difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.
>
>
>     --
>     Rich De Steno
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>




Howard Traxler
 

Yes, I've tried those; and enter, escape,and maybe others.  It seems a little inconsistent.  Sometimes it closes the box and sets it at 0; and sometimes it closes the window all together and I have to alt-tab to get back to it and start over.

On 4/1/2020 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:
Have you tried just tabbing or manually going back to browse mode?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Howard Traxler <mailto:htraxler7@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 01, 2020 8:00 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible
I noticed on Amazon, when I try to increment the quantity of an item I'm
purchasing, I can get it all the way to 10.  But when I try to close the
box (I've tried any key combination I can think of) it will not close
and retain my choice.

Howard


On 3/31/2020 11:12 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Have you got an example on a public site you can share please?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:05 PM Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@...
<mailto:axcruncher@...>> wrote:

     I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites
     that
     is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The
     combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
     combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened
     and
     read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone
     have a
     solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having
     great
     difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.


     --
     Rich De Steno






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>



 

I don't know what, precisely, is being described by this "new combo box" but I have no doubt it exists.  If anyone finds a web address for a public-facing page that contains one please do share it (or them, if more than one).

But with regard to quantity combo boxes, your best bet generally is doing a Select All once you have focus and just typing in the quantity you want and tabbing out.  I have yet to see this fail (but I'm sure someone will, but it's worth trying).

The whole concept of a combo box was that it was a combination of a text edit box and a dropdown box, and you could either dropdown (or increment) to select a value or type one in as if it were a straight text edit box.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Gene
 

What browser or browsers have you tried?
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible
 
Yes, I've tried those; and enter, escape,and maybe others.  It seems a
little inconsistent.  Sometimes it closes the box and sets it at 0; and
sometimes it closes the window all together and I have to alt-tab to get
back to it and start over.


On 4/1/2020 8:48 AM, Gene wrote:
> Have you tried just tabbing or manually going back to browse mode?
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Howard Traxler <mailto:htraxler7@...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 01, 2020 8:00 AM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible
> I noticed on Amazon, when I try to increment the quantity of an item I'm
> purchasing, I can get it all the way to 10.  But when I try to close the
> box (I've tried any key combination I can think of) it will not close
> and retain my choice.
>
> Howard
>
>
> On 3/31/2020 11:12 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
> > Have you got an example on a public site you can share please?
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:05 PM Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@...
> > <mailto:axcruncher@...>> wrote:
> >
> >     I have recently encountered a type of combo box on a few web sites
> >     that
> >     is not accessible with screen-reading software, including NVDA.  The
> >     combo box does not open and reveal its list no matter what key
> >     combinations I try.  In past years, combo boxes were easily opened
> >     and
> >     read with alt-DownArrow or Space Bar and DownArrow.  Does anyone
> >     have a
> >     solution to reading these new combo boxes.  I am currently having
> >     great
> >     difficulty in completing a couple of forms that have such boxes.
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     Rich De Steno
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Quentin Christensen
> > Training and Support Manager
> >
> > Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
> > Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> > Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> > User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> > Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
> >
>
>
>
>




Gene
 

That is what real combo boxes are but I've almost never seen one.  The screen-readers I've used call list boxes combo boxes, thus leading to complete comfusion about the difference.  A list box requires you to move with the arrow keys or you can often use first letter navigation.  A combo box allows you to move with the arrow keys or type.  I don't know which the Amazon structure is.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Combo Boxes Are Not Accessible
 
I don't know what, precisely, is being described by this "new combo box" but I have no doubt it exists.  If anyone finds a web address for a public-facing page that contains one please do share it (or them, if more than one).

But with regard to quantity combo boxes, your best bet generally is doing a Select All once you have focus and just typing in the quantity you want and tabbing out.  I have yet to see this fail (but I'm sure someone will, but it's worth trying).

The whole concept of a combo box was that it was a combination of a text edit box and a dropdown box, and you could either dropdown (or increment) to select a value or type one in as if it were a straight text edit box.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


 

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 11:27 AM, Gene wrote:
That is what real combo boxes are but I've almost never seen one. 
I find that hard to believe, but what I do believe is that screen readers probably call list boxes and combo boxes just list boxes.  Combo boxes have been a staple for decades now.  I remember teaching how to create ones for forms that would populate the choices dynamically based on a database query (of course, you could do the same for list boxes, too).  The difference between the two being that a list box forced a choice only from the dropdown list while a combo box supported typing either an existing list option or a brand new option that would then be added.

That's actually one of the problems with screen readers and with ongoing development trends, there is not a one-to-one correspondence with what a screen reader declares something to be and what it actually is.  And given the pace of changing web objects, there's no way any screen reader could keep pace with all of it - and some of these new things end up being dead ends and are dropped.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Patrick Le Baudour
 

Hi,

while not on a quantity combo, I also had a problem with some listboxes/comboboxes on french amazon. Turned out I had to refresh nvda display (nvda+F5) for the changes to be shown.

Also, on completely unrelated websites, i had the "pleasure" to deal with some javascript-based lists/combo, with non-standard behaviour, like only accepting clicks or/and return key pres, or having to press return for an item to be actually selected. Form input mode can even be a hindrance for those.
In those cases, I had to play around quite a bit, but there's usually a way.

-- Patrick

Le 01/04/2020 à 15:00, Howard Traxler a écrit :
I noticed on Amazon, when I try to increment the quantity of an item I'm purchasing, I can get it all the way to 10.  But when I try to close the box (I've tried any key combination I can think of) it will not close and retain my choice.
Howard