Topics

locked Thunderbird talking way too much


Mary Otten
 

Hi all,


I just updated Thunderbird, and all of a sudden, it is talking way too much. For instance, each time I delete a message, I hear about how that message was deleted and added to trash, or some such. There are other announcements as well, rendering the experience entirely too verbose and inefficient for getting through email. I'm using the latest nvda, and as far as I know, there haven't been changes to the mozilla apps enhancements add on which I have been using without incident until now. My t-bird version is 68.7.0; it just updated to that.


Mary


Mary Otten
 

I should have said in my previous message that I have disabled the mozilla enhancements addon, and the result is the same. There is way too much talking, and I keep seeing things about how t-bird thinks a message is junk, and when I hit enter on the "no" button to say it isn't junk, I lose focus and have to close and reopen the app. It has turned what use to be a pleasant efficient experience into a frustrating waste of time.


Mary


 

Mary,

           This sounds very much like what was going on in version 70b3.  I just helped someone roll back from that to 68.6.0 and that was fine.  I am on the release channel and when I just checked I'm updating, and have been updated to 68.7.0.

            While it would be odd for any major change in a dot level release, it could be some small change has triggered this, as accessibility testing is spotty at best (as a general rule).

             I don't have time at the moment to fire up NVDA and listen, but if you can provide just a couple of the things being said that weren't before, I will do that later and see if I have them, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Roger Stewart
 

I just upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version.  I'm getting a lot of unwanted feedback telling me every time I delete a message how many messages have been moved to trash and how many unread messages are in the inbox.  I hope a fix can be found to turn this off.  Maybe someone might find it useful, and if this is so, then a toggle to turn it on or off would be good.


Roger


Sarah k Alawami
 

I believe someone on my twitter said unchecking some stuff in the tool bar, but they really did not give much more than that. I hope this will be a shove in the right direction.

Good luck.

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On 8 Apr 2020, at 14:44, Roger Stewart wrote:

I just upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version.  I'm getting a lot of unwanted feedback telling me every time I delete a message how many messages have been moved to trash and how many unread messages are in the inbox.  I hope a fix can be found to turn this off.  Maybe someone might find it useful, and if this is so, then a toggle to turn it on or off would be good.

Roger


Curtis Delzer
 

I unqualifyingly agree! this is nasty compared to b4.

Curtis Delzer
HS
K 6 V F O
Rialto, CA

curtis@...

On 4/8/2020 11:56 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
Hi all,


I just updated Thunderbird, and all of a sudden, it is talking way too much. For instance, each time I delete a message, I hear about how that message was deleted and added to trash, or some such. There are other announcements as well, rendering the experience entirely too verbose and inefficient for getting through email. I'm using the latest nvda, and as far as I know, there haven't been changes to the mozilla apps enhancements add on which I have been using without incident until now. My t-bird version is 68.7.0; it just updated to that.


Mary




David Csercsics
 

I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.


 

Yeah to the poster on here with the issue with thunderbird 68.7, the statusbar is quite verbose, stating extra information at the end of the message.

Now in outlook I get a list of messages and I get unread or read at the start depending if they are, but right now the statuses say their bits after the fact with a pause.

So yeah the status bar is off.

Now if they change it so it says everything at the beginning or better yet get it so you can have things make noise if they are read or not then we can use sound cues which are less intrusive.


Mary Otten
 

Thanks, David, for that hint about disabling the status bar. I’m going to try that, and if that works, then that would be great. Otherwise, I will report in exact detail in accordance with Brian‘s request about what exactly it was saying. But right now, I’m outside enjoying a rather nice day for once in what is usually rainy Oregon.

On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:34 PM, David Csercsics <bleeblat@...> wrote:

I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.





hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


I must of just got a update this morning.


The first time I checked the emails etc no extra verbage.


Just opened it now and am getting what you said as in

it will tell you it is downloading messages from your accounts and how many. I just hit the ctrl key at present when it done that.


Just been reading some messages it will tell you the amount of unread messages etc and when you delete them etc


Will have more of a sus but I think apart from when it goes to download the messages I probably do not mind the rest been spoken.


Will also check if the status bar is disabled will it be spoken then?


I am guessing for messages been deleted it will.


Gene nz

On 9/04/2020 11:34 am, Mary Otten wrote:
Thanks, David, for that hint about disabling the status bar. I’m going to try that, and if that works, then that would be great. Otherwise, I will report in exact detail in accordance with Brian‘s request about what exactly it was saying. But right now, I’m outside enjoying a rather nice day for once in what is usually rainy Oregon.
On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:34 PM, David Csercsics <bleeblat@...> wrote:

I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.





 

Well I think someone should report this, the biggest issue with disabling status is that nvda does not read the progress on incomming mail, so you don't know when things are coming or going only hear they are.

On 9/04/2020 11:34 am, Mary Otten wrote:
Thanks, David, for that hint about disabling the status bar. I’m going to try that, and if that works, then that would be great. Otherwise, I will report in exact detail in accordance with Brian‘s request about what exactly it was saying. But right now, I’m outside enjoying a rather nice day for once in what is usually rainy Oregon.
On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:34 PM, David Csercsics <bleeblat@...> wrote:

I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.





.


 

well I don't mind I guess but it will be something to get used to.

On 9/04/2020 11:58 am, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
Hi


I must of just got a update this morning.


The first time I checked the emails etc no extra verbage.


Just opened it now and am getting what you said as in

it will tell you it is downloading messages from your accounts and how many. I just hit the ctrl key at present when it done that.


Just been reading some messages it will tell you the amount of unread messages etc and when you delete them etc


Will have more of a sus but I think apart from when it goes to download the messages I probably do not mind the rest been spoken.


Will also check if the status bar is disabled will it be spoken then?


I am guessing for messages been deleted it will.


Gene nz


On 9/04/2020 11:34 am, Mary Otten wrote:
Thanks, David, for that hint about disabling the status bar. I’m going to try that, and if that works, then that would be great. Otherwise, I will report in exact detail in accordance with Brian‘s request about what exactly it was saying. But right now, I’m outside enjoying a rather nice day for once in what is usually rainy Oregon.
On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:34 PM, David Csercsics <bleeblat@...> wrote:

I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.






Mary Otten
 

David, your disabling status bar did the trick, thank goodness!


Mary

On 4/8/2020 3:34 PM, David Csercsics wrote:
I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.




 

Hmmm I also hear when its loading a message.

Thinking on it now outlook does this and yeah I could get used to the new interface I guess.

On 9/04/2020 11:58 am, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
Hi


I must of just got a update this morning.


The first time I checked the emails etc no extra verbage.


Just opened it now and am getting what you said as in

it will tell you it is downloading messages from your accounts and how many. I just hit the ctrl key at present when it done that.


Just been reading some messages it will tell you the amount of unread messages etc and when you delete them etc


Will have more of a sus but I think apart from when it goes to download the messages I probably do not mind the rest been spoken.


Will also check if the status bar is disabled will it be spoken then?


I am guessing for messages been deleted it will.


Gene nz


On 9/04/2020 11:34 am, Mary Otten wrote:
Thanks, David, for that hint about disabling the status bar. I’m going to try that, and if that works, then that would be great. Otherwise, I will report in exact detail in accordance with Brian‘s request about what exactly it was saying. But right now, I’m outside enjoying a rather nice day for once in what is usually rainy Oregon.
On Apr 8, 2020, at 3:34 PM, David Csercsics <bleeblat@...> wrote:

I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.






 

Hmmm I enabled it but it told me when I was doing everything, I wish I could customise things, maybe have all that extra text being put into sounds, and then a way for me to put a different sound with each event, and so on then in case I sat on my board or screwed up I'd probably know about it.

On 9/04/2020 12:13 pm, Mary Otten wrote:
David, your disabling status bar did the trick, thank goodness!


Mary


On 4/8/2020 3:34 PM, David Csercsics wrote:
I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.





David Csercsics
 

I find it works lovely here. I don't have any issues with it not reporting anything that matters. I still get the alert text when new messages arrive, so I'm not sure what information is being left out that someone wants.


matthew dyer
 

Hi,


Getting the same thing.  Hope they can find a fix for this. Thanks.


Matthew

On 4/8/2020 5:44 PM, Roger Stewart wrote:
I just upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version.  I'm getting a lot of unwanted feedback telling me every time I delete a message how many messages have been moved to trash and how many unread messages are in the inbox.  I hope a fix can be found to turn this off.  Maybe someone might find it useful, and if this is so, then a toggle to turn it on or off would be good.


Roger




Roger Stewart
 

Yes, turning off the status bar fixed it completely!
Thanks much!
Roger

On 4/8/2020 5:34 PM, David Csercsics wrote:
I got the 68.7 update today and noticed it was chatty. It was reading the status bar, so I disabled that, and it's less verbose. You can disable the status bar from view -> toolbars.




.


 

My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Gene
 

This problem raises serious questions about how accessibility is implemented as Thunderbird is developed. 
 
This is just the kind of thing you would expect to see implemented if a sighted person or persons, who know nothing about proper implementation of accessibility, add or design accessibility functions.  Just because something talks doesn't mean it is practical or properly usable. 
 
How did such a function get past beta testing or even alpha testing?  Unless Thunderbird changes how it evaluates accessibility changes or new implementations, there will be a constant threat of future versions presenting new and completely unnecessary accessibility problems.  I would suggest those who use the program contact the developers about this problem.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much
 
My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna