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Are these buttons? or links or links in buttons but not spoken out?


 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:26 PM, Gene wrote:
Just because something is there doesn't mean it is necessary.
And there are plenty of things that are there explicitly for the sighted, as webpages are a visual medium, that are accessed slightly differently, but where the same things are accessible via screen reader using conventional elements as well.

I have seen (and not on this group, I might add) tons of screaming about "discrimination" against blind folks that I, personally, think is simply not there.  Web pages will never be primarily designed for screen reader users.  Things like hotspots will be used because they are incredibly enticing to the main target demographic:  sighted individuals.  That same target demographic makes up the vast majority of users.

If what I or anyone who sees get to one way, but you can get to just as easily via another, and that other is a conventional element like a link, header, button, etc., it's a difference, period, and one that makes sense.  There is no way (or reason) to make a hotspot where I can click anywhere in it to get to the product's own page otherwise accessible when the very link that I go to when I click anywhere in the hotspot is an actual heading in the page itself that reads with the exact product name (in the case of the Kogan website).  You can get to anything I can get to, and you will have the screen reader reading the exact thing I see in the image that makes up the hotspot text.

The Kogan site, from everything I can determine, is as accessible to a screen reader user, using conventional features of a screen reader, as it is to me via point and click.  That's all it needs to be in order to be accessible.  And given how visually cluttered it is, and as perverse as it sounds, doing a quick through that list of headings is in certain ways far less distracting and far more direct way of finding something.  The visual layout of that page is busy, busy, busy, busy - and that's with an ad blocking browser being used.  I can only imagine what is being blocked as far as flashing, scrolling, and other devices meant to draw attention - all of which have always made me insane - hence the reason I've employed ad blockers since the first day I knew they existed.
 
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Gene
 

If I understand what you are saying, this is an example of something I've noticed enough to be stated as an important thing to apply. Just because something is there doesn't mean it is necessary. On the site you are discussing, You see many buttons and you see other things that appear to be useable. If you can use those other things, you may not be missing anything that matters if you can do what you want. I used to see the following a lot more but the principle still applies. I used to see sites with a lot of unlabeled links in the navigation links at the top of the page. The bottom of the page contained the same oor a lot of the same links that read properly for some reason. If I could use the site to find what I want and do what I want, I simply disregarded the top unlabeled links, especially if experimentally clicking on one or two led me to the same place as clicking on one or two of the bottom links. but that experiment, though interesting, wasn't necessary to use the page. It was just a way to see iff I was right, the the links were redundant or mostly so.

Gene

----- Original Message -----
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 7:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are these buttons? or links or links in buttons but not spoken out?

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:04 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
The first website is is http://www.kogan.com

It says button then link. If navigating by links it is spoken out but not buttons. There are some that just say button.Gene,

I will stick to this website, and try as best I can to describe what's happening. The site has some (relatively few) true buttons, it has a number of links, but it is overwhelmingly populated by what was, at least when I last dealt with them, hotspots. These are graphics, generally an image of the product or class that when clicked on takes you to its page. They are, for all practical intents and purposes, buttons, but they are not button objects. What's interesting is when I use the NVDA+F7 for the NVDA elements list, if I change the element to Headings virtually all of these hotspots have individually dedicated headings (which are links themselves, contained in the hotspot), and those headings are the product name/description itself, e.g, Kogan 12 L Air Fryer, Kogan Mobile SIM - Prepaid starter pack, Trafalgar Set of 2 Hotel Quality Goose Down Pillows. If you activate the heading, you land on the link for that product and if you activate that, you are taken to its page. If you can see you can click anywhere within the hotspot border and you'll end up on the product description page, just like you would if you navigate to the heading for the product, then activate that heading link.

Brian

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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth.

~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


 

It also appears that the TubiTV site is similar, except for what the hotspots do, which include adding a given film/show to one's queue or showing a brief preview clip.  Under each is the actual title, which is what's shown in the hotspot as the poster art for the program/film in question.
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:04 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
The first website is is http://www.kogan.com

It says button then link. If navigating by links it is spoken out but not buttons. There are some that just say button.
Gene,

             I will stick to this website, and try as best I can to describe what's happening.  The site has some (relatively few) true buttons, it has a number of links, but it is overwhelmingly populated by what was, at least when I last dealt with them, hotspots.  These are graphics, generally an image of the product or class that when clicked on takes you to its page.  They are, for all practical intents and purposes, buttons, but they are not button objects.  What's interesting is when I use the NVDA+F7 for the NVDA elements list, if I change the element to Headings virtually all of these hotspots have individually dedicated headings (which are links themselves, contained in the hotspot), and those headings are the product name/description itself, e.g, Kogan 12 L Air Fryer, Kogan Mobile SIM - Prepaid starter pack, Trafalgar Set of 2 Hotel Quality Goose Down Pillows.  If you activate the heading, you land on the link for that product and if you activate that, you are taken to its page.  If you can see you can click anywhere within the hotspot border and you'll end up on the product description page, just like you would if you navigate to the heading for the product, then activate that heading link.

Brian
 
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Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi guys


I have been coming across websites with buttons in them. I do not mind if they are labeled correctly but then when you jump down the page with B for buttons you get a lot of unlabled ones but if i remember right will take you to a page.


Yet if you jump down by links they are spoken out.


So the question is are there links embedded into the button? but because the button is not labled as well it is not spoken out?

 A couple of websites come to mind so you can see what I mean. Even if i could lable them there are 2 many of them.


The first website is is http://www.kogan.com

It says button then link. If navigating by links it is spoken out but not buttons. There are some that just say button.


The second website is https://tubitv.com/home

In this case only buttons are spoken out some are and the rest are not.


They can not be activated the usual way with space bar or enter key but only the nvda key + enter key then it comes up with a little information.



Could this also be because they are made more for touch screens where the buttons are not spoken out correctly? or just bad website design? I mean not the website just not doing the buttons correctly.


Gene nz